oops, Myer, just saw your post.
I am taking both your and WhereAreWe's advice re Sedona to heart.

I remember your advice re Horseshoe Bend, but I'm not sure if I can manage the timing. The slot canyon, whichever one we choose, we will try to time for midday.

Off to sleep on it, thanks all.

Page to Bryce

I've been on this road twice. Last time was year ago and they were improving it into a wider gravel road. NOT paved.

It starts at MP 17.3 off highway 89 west of Page.
About 45 miles later, driving north, you are now at Cannonville on highway 12 at MP 25.9 that is close to Bryce
It is named Cottonwood Canyon road. Very scenic. IF you have 4-WD, a side road goes to the absolute best 'mushrooms' (tall spire with hard stone on top)I've ever visited. Very scenic with deep slot canyon you drop down into.

Last year, when I was on that road a couple (he/she)from Poland were on their respective motorcycles.

http://www.americansouthwest.net/uta...nyon_road.html

And massive Grovesnor's Arch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grosvenor_Arch

Plus you can quickly see Kodachrome's very, very unique 'pipes'
http://stateparks.utah.gov/park/koda...sin-state-park

Vaga

We had snow in Arizona in mid May so you can't guarantee no snow even as late as that.
We have been to GC twice, and each time had snow. It wasn't enough to be a real problem, but on the May trip that was largely down to the ploughs being out and clearing the roads early.

Personally I hated Sedona. Too commercial and way too developed.

RVvagabond

Thanks for your reply. Aye, there's the rub, we won't have an AWD, or even if we do, I'm not sure our insurance would cover off-road use, if that makes any sense. But I've been studying up on this, I think we can make the Wahweap hoodoos at the trailhead at Big Water, about 25 mins from Page just off 89. I'll have to think about the arch.

hetismij2, I've heard similar, but there are some nice hikes, plus we may need to slow down at that point....

If you go to Sedona, take a Pink Jeep tour. Great experience.

As noted above, Sedona's downtown is not that big and it is touristy, but the natural surroundings of Sedona are breathtaking in all directions. If you like hiking, there are great short and long hikes everywhere. Be sure to try the Elote Cafe in Sedona; it is worth the wait! We spent a week in Sedona recently and loved it.

Horseshoe Bend and Antelope Canyon are very close together. Not more than 15 minutes or so apart.

Horseshoe Bend is about 3/4 mile out and it's level so no uphill. If you go to one Horseshoe Bend a little before noon that should light up the water and you won't have the sun in you eyes.

Then you can drive over to Antelope Canyon.

You'll see a Saguaro on the way north out of Phoenix but Tucson is where most of them hang out.

mid to late September would be a good time to go IMO.

You are basically doing what is called "The Grand Circle".

Is Moab (Arches & Canyonland (Islands in the Sky district.) part of your plan?

Starrs, voyager61, Myer, peterboy, thanks all for your interest and responses. I am taking note of all your tips.

peterboy, so the saguaro 'hang out' in Tucson. For a prickly plant, this sounds positively friendly. Fortunately friends relate that there are a few in Tonto national park, as we aren't going as far south as Tucson. Next: I must resist trying to fit Moab in this trip, tempting though it is. Yes, I'm doing a Grand Circle because the dropoff fee for a one-way car rental is quite steep, it easily pays for an extra vacation day. Also air routing choices to and from LAS are at least numerous if not necessarily wonderful in terms of schedule. My latest prospective pick brings us into Las Vegas later in the evening, which puts it into the early morning hours of our biological clocks, but there it is. I can't have it all, life is so unreasonable that way...

myer, hello again. I remember from reading your report the first time that as a photographer enthusiast you have a keen eye for light. I am trying to keep your tips in mind. I notice Myer you didn't attempt either the South Kaibab or Bright Angel trails at GC, yet you did several hikes around Bryce which must have been almost as steep. Any particular reason you didn't, or were you just short of time?

Just wanted to chime in and put in a good word for Queen's Garden hike at Bryce. It is listed in the "easy" category and is leI ss than 2 miles, but I found it plenty challenging. I wished had hiking poles because it is very steep going down and coming up from the canyon. But it was definitely a great hike!

Jayne1973, thanks for the vote for QGarden. I hope we can find room in the luggage for (collapsible) hiking poles. Can you remember how long it took for that hike (distances are deceiving, I know, where elevation is involved...)

I would say it was at least two hours. We did stop and rest about halfway and eat a snack (including a little "juice box" of wine... )

Thank you Jayne. Snacks being the most important part of a hike, we shall allow at least two hours. Especially given the altitude and 'thin' air. By the way, I love the 'juice box' of wine idea...don't worry, it will only be a taste, we don't want to fall off the trail on our return...

I gotta say, prices for those lodges aren't exactly cheap. I suppose the law of supply and demand applies with a vengeance.

Sue, you are right, the lodges are priced based on location,location, location, not on how nice they are or what extras they offer. That said, it is very nice to be in the parks when there are so few other people and not to have to drive on curvy, sometimes hilly, roads with big animals like elk and deer who also use them to get from place to place when it is dark. One accident with the car would really make up for the extra costs.

This is more important for parks like Grand Canyon and Yellowstone than some of the others, but it is really nice to wake up and walk to the view or see the sunset and walk to your room, rather than to have to get into the car, drive in, find a parking spot, remember what you left back at the room and go back to get it etc.

emalloy, what a good point about the nighttime animals. And yes, the temptation would be great to grab a sunset view, and then try to drive back in the dark (or inbound in the dark for a sunrise). One wants a souvenir, but preferably not some unfortunate beast winding up as a hood ornament.

At Bryce we stayed at Ruby's, which is very close to the entrance, unlike outside-the-park lodging situations you run into at Grand Canyon and Yellowstone.

Sue,
That first trip was planned as a result of a photo of Bryce Canyon that I saw. So an extra day there.

I found the Grand Canyon photos I saw were underwhelming and had every intention the totally bypass it and go directly to Sedona.

I decided that with a stop of a few hours in Page, the drive might be too long. So I decided to spend a night at GC and take a quick look.

In my opinion, GC is at the bottom of all the sights in the area. My daughter went there with her husband after some meetings. She had planes a couple of days. She hiked the trail and called me after a day for more ideas. I sent her to the Page sights.

I had every intention of doing part of the hike at GC in the morning. Somehow I found my self exiting to the south and saw a lineup going back in. So I just continued on to Sedona and had a great time in the Red Rocks.

emalloy wrote what I always tell people about inpark vs outside the park. I'm sure those who stay outside and are very happy with it are not photographers or those who are intent on seeing wildlife. It's possible they'll see some but animals are most active early and late.

I've seen some wildlife (deer in Brice and Zion and wild turkeys in Zion) in the Utah parks but nowhere near what's in Glacier (MT), Yellowstone (WY) and Banff & Jasper in Alberta.

The most popular hike in Bryce is Navajo Loop going down (because it's steeper) and connecting with Queens Garden going back up.

Bryce Canyon is quite a bit higher than GC altitude-wise. Also, the problem with Bryce (unlike Zion) is that you go down first and then have to go back up. Also, Zion is 4,000 ft lower even those it's only about 90 miles away.

jayne, I've heard good things about Ruby's, too.

"Somehow I found my self exiting to the south and saw a lineup going back in."

Myer, it's obvious your genetic heritage involved an exchange of an eye for good photographs, for navigational sense. I laugh every time I read about your venture into your hotel at Bryce...trying to get back to the car to get your suitcase, and ending up in the woods. Don't worry, we once had to use a compass just to get us out of Shinjuku railway station in Tokyo. We know what it is to be directionally challenged, although in our defense that is one huge railway station.

Thank you for the info about hiking at GC. You are not one to be reckless when it comes to hikes. So I figure we can attempt the hike as far as Ooh Aah point; I'm going to allow two hours for this roundtrip, although many have done it faster.

Friends confessed that the South Kaibab was quite, shall they say, thrilling. One joked there was no need for directions to hikers to go to the cliff side when mule trains passed, he wouldn't go to the edge side under such circumstances unless at gunpoint (and maybe not even then). Such anecdotes are another indicator in favour of not being too ambitious this first trip, when it comes to hiking.

I take your point about Zion. The 'bad news' about hikes ideally should be on the outward journey, and it seems that's the case in Zion.

The only park you really need in-park lodging is the Grand Canyon. Tusayan is the next closest option and it's 12 miles from the entrance.

There is lodging directly outside of Bryce, and Bryce is a very small park so staying inside the park saves you maybe 5-10 minutes of driving? Depending on which viewpoint you choose, you may be driving to it anyway so don't put too much weight on not driving in the dark.

Zion is on the shuttle system by that time of year. Springdale is directly outside the park. Put those two facts together and you won't have any issues with driving in the dark, so again, don't let that be a factor in your lodging decision.

If you plan on being up early for sunrise, you'll see animals whether you stay inside a park or not. Same goes for sunset, if you stick around long enough to watch that you are going to see animals along the road whether you are staying inside the park or not.

You can't really see sunrise or sunset from the lodge inside Zion or from Springdale as you'll be down in a canyon with your views blocked. You'd need to get in your car and drive out of the main canyon to see either one.

Sue,

I'm not navigationally challenged. The problem was that it was dark. There was a very dimly lit sidewalk about 20 yards to my left while the building I was going to was straight ahead of me and slightly to the right. So that sidewalk wasn't in my view until the next morning.

Most importantly, I didn't realize there were two entrances; one facing the parking lot and the other in the direction of the Rim. By my third time going in I realized that the entrance in was going in was slightly different from the one I was exiting.

And I was tired by then.

At least it was a one time issue and once I saw the layout in the light it was fine.

Unlike our lodging at Yosemite. I better not tell that one or I'll be accused of being a Yosemite hater.

I more or less agree with WhereAreWe. If I had to pick any parks that have inpark lodging but none is available, Bryce and Zion would be the ones with acceptable outside lodging. As long as Rubys had availability.

However, if I had a choice at these two I would still take inpark.

About hikes. Even going up Queens Garden in Bryce could be an issue for some people. It's over 8,500 ft up. Most hikes in Zion are up first and then down. And Zion is also at about 4,500 ft. So hikes in Zion are less of an issue.