awayfromitall

We're looking at taking a 4-day motorized rafting trip in the Grand Canyon at the end of July. Two 50ish-year-olds and a 17-year-old boy. For whatever reason, hiking out the Bright Angel Trail seems like a challenge I want to conquer. The 17-year-old is in awesome shape. My husband is in really good shape and myself in moderate shape (my normal exercise consists of running 3 miles twice a week and we do intermittent 5-8 miles hikes during the year). I realize a lot of companies will already be booked but looking online, some still seem to have availability.

So opinions on folks that may have done this or a similar/longer trip such as:
1) You really don't want to do a motorized trip...a paddle trip is the way to go because...
2) You really don't want to hike out the Bright Angel Trail in late July because...
3) If you do it, the absolute awesome-est company to use is...

Bill_H

I've done several GC float trips, most on smaller rafts but one on a big motorized raft. Also hiked almost 1,200 miles in the inner canyon, including Bright Angel one June when it was 118 F at Phantom Ranch (we had hiked 34 miles on the Tonto Trail from Grandview Point to get to Bright Angel) and a young man in the group ahead of us died from heat stroke at Cremation Canyon.

Here are my thoughts on your Q's.

"1) You really don't want to do a motorized trip...a paddle trip is the way to go because."

If you only have four days then take the motorized trip. Paddle trips are "better" in the sense that the big whitewater is much more exciting in a small raft than a giant one, and typically you have a lot more guides so it seemed there were more choices on what to do on hiking breaks, but the motor trip is fine.

If you can take two weeks then for sure do the paddle trip, 226 miles. If you can take just a week then, hmm, I don't know, either the long motor trip to mile 190 or a float trip to Phantom Ranch (mile 88) or, maybe better to avoid difficult hiking, hike down to Phantom and do the lower half.

But with four days for sure do a motorized trip.

2) You really don't want to hike out the Bright Angel Trail in late July because...

... because it can be hotter than hell and people sometimes die doing it. Sounds like your husband and son are in good enough shape for the hike but you are kind of borderline.

I've taken a lot of people from work on hikes into the GC, usually rim to river and back up in a morning, and if you could do a bit more running you'll probably be OK IF the heat isn't too bad. I remember folks who jogged 4 miles 3x/week at 8 minute/mile pace and they fine on August hikes, for example.

It's not too hot early AM even on the river in July (the daily highs are typically for 4-5 PM) and it gets cooler as you climb and gain elevation, so the key is to start early.

If the boat folks get you to the bottom of the trail so you get started by 7 AM (4 AM is better but that won't happen unless you overnight at the campground) and you have a light pack then you should be OK unless it's one of those 'once in a decade' heat waves where the temps approach 120 F.

Usually 1-3 hikers die each year from heat stroke but I remember one extremely hot year when seven died. Seems most of the deaths occur on wilderness trails, not Bright Angel (where there is a Ranger station and water at three places), but a few die from heat stroke even on crowded trails.

I would ask the boat company how early they can get you to Pipe Springs (where the trail starts from the river). If it's as late as 9 AM (which I remember from May trips in paddle boats) then I would worry, especially if you are unlucky with a heat wave (no way of knowing this in advance). If it's 7 AM or earlier then you should be OK.

3) If you do it, the absolute awesome-est company to use is...

The two companies I've used didn't offer half-trip motorized trips so can't help you there.

K_Bot

I took an 8-day motor trip with Wilderness River Adventures back in 1998 and had an absolute blast. It's hard to go wrong with any kind of Grand Canyon white water raft trip, whether motorized or paddle/oar. Some would assert that oar trips are the more environmentally responsible way to go (quieter, no fossil fuel) but you have to have a lot of time to spare in order to accommodate it. Oar rigs also run a greater risk of flipping, but injuries are extremely rare due to the heavy duty life vests provided by the river outfitters.

July has got to be one of the worst times to hike out Bright Angel, namely for the reason Bill_H has given, it's hotter than hell and you'll be starting the hike during the hottest part of the day. Your river company will provide a guide to hike out with you - typically he/she "brings up the rear" to make sure everyone is doing OK. I've seen couch potatoes take BA trail at a snail's pace and live to tell the tale and have also heard accounts of marathon runners dying on that trail. If you participate in regular aerobic exercise, that works in your favor. If not, step it up with some StairMaster work or hill/stadium climbing.

As to best company to go with, it won't come down to who they are by name, it will most likely come down to who has the trip offering that best fits your schedule. Rivers & Oceans, a company based in Flagstaff AZ, works with all the various outfitters (there are over a dozen) and can save you a lot of legwork, phone calls, etc. Visit www.rivers-oceans.com or call 1-800-473-4576

spirobulldog

Now I don't have the experience Bill has-only 1 trip for me. We did a 3 day big raft motorized trip(on the last part of the river-which is probably the least exciting)and had a great time. We used Arizona River Runners. Our guide said he has run various parts of the river for 20+ years and had worked for 3 or 4 different companies. He said that all the companies are very similar and basically all of them pretty decent. He said food varies with some companies more so than others.

The lady that owns Bar 10 Ranch at the Grand Canyon (a major hub for various raft and helicopter companies to transfer clients-most spend one night at the ranch) was on our raft with two of her grand children. The fact that she chose that company would indicate to me that Arizona River Runners must be a good company(although I am sure they probably didn't charge her anything or at surely gave here a huge discount).

Do you run on a treadmill in the A/C for your runs? I think being acclimated to the heat is something to consider as well. I live in Oklahoma where it is often 105 with very high humidity and I work outside. My wife, on the other hand, teaches school-so we are very different about how much heat we can tolerate.

I think anyway you do it, you will have a good time. That hike out might be a doozy though.

awayfromitall

So we're looking to limit it to 4-6 days so can only do the upper canyon or the lower canyon. I was thinking the upper canyon because I thought at least you wouldn't exhaust yourself on the Bright Angel until the end and hiking up can sometimes be easier than hiking down on the muscles/joints. But in reading more, it sounds like the lower canyon might be "better". Is the upper canyon good enough? That is, is it the difference between the two the difference between awesome and super awesome...or fine and awesome? Any suggestions/experience either way on choosing the upper canyon vs. the lower canyon?

spirobulldog

You probably can't go wrong either way, but I think most people will tell you that the upper is better whitewater and a bit more scenic perhaps. There are many places for sidehikes to explore, so that might depend on which area you went as well. Heck, just sleeping along the river is a terrific experience.

To me, going down is easier when it involves this much elevation gain/loss. It effects a different area of your legs/knees. But you will not have the cardio workout going down as you do going up. And you are not going to get as hot. 6 days would definately allow you for a lot more options.

WhereAreWe

As far as I'm concerned, hiking up is/was easier. Much less pounding on your joints and muscles on the way up than on the way down.

Get to Indian Garden and take a break. If it's incredibly hot, wait it out there in the shade until the sun goes down and it cools off a bit.

Bill_H

But in reading more, it sounds like the lower canyon might be "better". Is the upper canyon good enough?

Upper takes you thru all the rock layers, which become exposed one by one as you go downstream, so is better if you're interested in geology. More open until you hit the granite gorge at mile 77, so some very interesting scenery. Some great side hikes. A lot of good rapids but in a big boat it doesn't matter as much. Some highlights include Redwall Cavern, Vasey's Paradise, Nankoweap delta w/ Indian ruins, and intersection with Little Colorado.

Lower you'll be in the granite gorge the entire way, very narrow in spots, esp compared to upper. Much bigger rapids ... the five biggest rapids on the river are on the lower stretch, though unfortunately four of them are just miles below Phantom Ranch so you hit them in one day, then a long wait for the 37 ft drop at Lava Falls. Also a lot of great day hikes in side canyons.

Some highlights off the top of my head would include Deer Creek Falls (most scenic waterfall in the canyon, I feel), Matkatkimba canyon, Havasu creek canyon, and Elves Chasm w/ waterfall. Both upper and lower are great, just different.

It's much easier in July to hike down BA and do the lower part than to hike out BA after doing the upper part. That would be the deciding factor for most people.

Hiking down puts stress on your lower legs and joints, especially if you have a heavy pack, but not too bad if you just take short steps. Hiking up puts stress on your heart and lungs and calves and thighs. A strong hiker takes about 50% longer to hike up than down (I usually go down in 2 hours and up in 3 with just a day pack, for example); a weak hiker in the GC can take up to 400% longer to hike out than in, based on the Park Service data (2 hours down, 8 hours up).

Put another way, hiking down can cause discomfort but hiking up in July heat can cause death by heat stroke. Two female tourist hikers died in Tucson the past 10 days from heat stroke, for example, and it's much easier to hike there than in the GC. Here's the link to the Tucson deaths (and it's not even that hot yet): http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...dies-heat.html

Bill_H

I think most people will tell you that the upper is better whitewater

John, I don't know where you saw this but I think they are wrong. Hance is the worst one on the upper section and it's bad mainly because it's so rocky but it's usually rated # 6 in terms of overall difficulty. Maybe the big motor boats rate it worse because of the rocks, since they tend to smooth out the rapids with just big waves, but the big waves are the most fun in a small boat. There's plenty of good whitewater on the upper section but not as many really big drops.

The five biggest rapids are all in the lower section, including two that are really scary at high water levels in a small boat (Crystal and Lava Falls). The hole at Crystal (the so-called "Jaws of Death") got so out of control during the flood of 1983 that even the big 38 ft motor boats flipped, which is amazing.

awayfromitall

So...if we have a couple of days post trip, any recommendations on what to do in the area? Stay at the grand canyon and do more hiking? Or will we probably be sick of hiking? Other places within a couple hour drive that are cool to see? No museums.

emalloy

Where are you coming from; Phoenix, Flagstaff, Vegas, somewhere else? Are you interested in Native American sites, geology, spa treatments, off road travel, a dam tour?

There is a huge variety of things to do in the area, so be a little more specific

awayfromitall

Something active that a 17-year-old boy wouldn't go "ho-hum" to.

We haven't got our plain tickets yet so we could fly out of Phoenix or Vegas.

emalloy

Cheap person that I am, I would look at the cost of flight, rental car and time of arrival/departure. Usually Vegas has the cheapest cars, sometimes less expensive flights, and most 17 yos would find it not boring for a night. Maybe a Cirque show at night, ride on the rollercoaster on NYNY or Stratosphere, walk up the strip and get out of town.

If he's seen the Chevy Chase Vegas vacation movie, a trip to Hoover Dam would be a good stop on the way to/from Grand Canyon.

If Phoenix is your flight choice, then Sedona is a logical place to spend some time. Stop at Montezuma's Castle and well on the way up or back, take a Pink Jeep tour, slip and slide in Oak Creek.

Or head up to Page and visit Antelope Canyon, best dam view, the dam, take a boat ride on Lake Powell.

spirobulldog

You could inquire about other kids on your raft trip. My daughter was about 13 when we went and there just happened to be 4 other kids(all between 12 and 14), so they had a really good time together. I think they might try to semi group alike parties if possible. Have him bring along a football, frisbee, cards, etc. This will give them something to do while waiting for evening meals etc.

awayfromitall

K_Bot...thanks so much for the Rivers and Oceans recommendation. I contacted them and had the whole trip set up painlessly along with South rim accommodations. The end result is a 4-day upper canyon motorized trip with Hatch River Expeditions. DH wasn't sure how many nights sleeping on the ground he was up for so we'll start small. If we love it, perhaps someday we'll do an oar/paddle trip in the lower canyon. After the rafting trip, we're then spending 2 days on soft beds in Vegas with tickets to see Cirque du Soleil O and Garth Brooks....the latter without the 17-year-old