I see that in the name of "national security" Americans traveling in the US by air will soon have their credit reports and other personal financial data checked before boarding Delta flights at three undisclosed airports (and in all U.S. airports by the end of the year). I am curious how this can in ANY way improve security. Foreign nationals traveling by air in the U.S. will be exempt as their credit reports/financial data, etc., will be inaccessible (the privacy laws in many European countries, for example, expressly forbid the sharing of credit/banking information with other countries). So only Americans will be affected. What is the point of this latest scheme? What invasion of privacy will be next in the name of "national security"? I keep checking my calendar--it SAYS this is the year 2003, but it's feeling more and more like 1984.
Also, I'm curious why Delta agreed to this scheme.

BT: look at post:
anyone else see this?

How will Delta be able to check credit reports? They don't get my social security number when I book an airline ticket - all they get is my name and a cursory look at my driver's license. They do get my credit card number assuming I have paid with a CC - will the credit card company be giving them my SS number?

Where did you hear/read this story?

If an airline asks for my SS number I will refuse.

Andrew

BTilke,
This was discussed in anoher thread titled "has anyone seen this"
I'm with you 100%, but after reading some of the responses on the other thread, I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry. Most of the people there made it known that they would be willing to jump and sing if some authority told to, in return of some false promise that it would make them safe. Actually it's scary that we in this so called free country are becoming like sheep to anything that our government tells us. Before anybody jumps on me, I don't mean that Bush is any worse than Clinton or republicans are any more devilish than democrats. What I'm talking about is the power we give the 'government', which is becoming more scary everyday.
I believe that if our founding fathers were alive today and doing the same things they were doing back then, they would probably be red-lighted and could not fly. On top of this they would probably be arrested and held without charges for months if not years. Why is it so hard for people to understand the basic notion of freedom? On occasion freedom will be costly. I'm willing to take that chance. Soviet Union safeguarded their citiens fairly well, but does anybody want to live in a state like that?

Andrew,
read about this here:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/02/28/airport.security.ap/index.html

BTilke wrote:

"Foreign nationals traveling by air in the U.S. will be exempt"

BT, where did you get this? I've read several descriptions of this - an updated version of a currently in-place screening system, called CAPPS II. From what I understand, State Department databases and terrorist watch databases will be used. None say that no foreigners will be subjected to scrutiny. Can you post a link?

OK this is way out of left field, but I am reminded that quite a number of years ago car manufacturers started adding seat belts, and then HORRORS government agencies started telling us we HAD to use them. Many people were up in arms "It's 1984 they said", "Big Brother is watching", "why sould the government tell me what I have to do in my own car", and "no one can convince me that a seat belt is going to make me any safer in a car crash!" Gee this all sounds so familiar. Same arguments with a whole new safety issue.

Frankly I have nothing to hide, and I could care less what they do to TRY to make flying safer -- with or without some guarantee of its success.

Where does it end?
when will the American people
resist these invasions of privacy?
My guess is that Delta, and other airlines, had their arms twisted off and used to beat them over the head.
Like, no federal loans, if they do not cooperate.

Joan, foreign nationals will be exempt from the latest checks (credit reports, bank details) unless they have accounts with U.S. financial institutions of some sort (bills, loans, etc.). There is no story on this, but it's factual. U.S. based credit reporting agencies (TRW for example) simply do not have access to overseas financial information. There is NO credit agency in the U.S., for example, that has any idea what our credit status is in Belgium (where we lived for 3+ years as expats). They are prevented by Belgian law from having that information. Many other countries have similar policies.
Patric, I'm glad you feel you have nothing to hide--today. Do you really feel that Delta needs to know everyone's credit history before they board a plane? Will you accept ANYTHING as long as someone *says* it will improve security? The seatbelt analogy is irrelevant. There's nothing confidential about that. Anyone can tell at a glance whether you're wearing a seatbelt or not. You're absolutely right, that is WAY out in left field.

Well said Patrick! Maybe this is a first step and it might help or not, but at least it is a start.
Better than just firing all the security people AFTER the planes get bombed/hijacked.
I have heard that it is anyone that buys a ticket, not any American.

Patrick - I'm with you, buddy. I have nothing to hide and if it makes everything involved with getting to where I want to go easier, so be it. From what I keep reading, all my personal information is available on every "'net street corner" there is, so when a company like Delta Airlines wants to keep me safe - ok by me...

The whole concept of 'I have nothing to hide' is so ridiculous. If you folks want to give up your civil rights then allow me to suggest we go all the way. In the name of homeland security I propose the following:
Give the cops the right to stop anybody, anywhere on the street for a search and questioning - after all you have nothing to hide.
Give the cops the right to pull over any car for any reason to be searched - after all you have nothing to hide.
Give the cops the right to knock on you door and demand to search your house - after all you have nothing to hide.
I believe these simple changes to our civil liberties would almost guarantee our safety. It would make it pretty hard for any criminal and/or terrorist to hide anything from the authorities. So what if on occasion the local sheriff came to your house at 3 in the morning because he had the right to search. Woke up your family, made them stand around for couple of hours, hey, after all you are helping in the battle.
So what if some cop in some city had a hard on for you and decided to search you everytime you stepped out of your door, after all it makes all of us safer.
Why don't we allow the governemt to listen to our phone conversations, after all you have nothing to hide. Open your mail, after all you have nothing to hide.
Please stop with the ridicolous argument 'I have nothing to hide'. It makes you sound like a simpleton.

Andrew et al, Wired explains it pretty well..."CAPPS II is a quantum expansion of the current system used to identify potential terrorists attempting to board airplanes. In addition to accessing FBI, National Crime Information Center (NCIC) and State Department databases, CAPPS II is expected to *SPIDER* IRS, Social Security Administration, state motor vehicle and corrections department, credit bureau and bank records....". For the full article, go to www.wired.com

Another concern is "function creep". Once a surveillance system is place for one function, it can be used for other functions as well. There are other problems with CAPPS II, such as my (or your) right view and correct errors in files.

How secure will these databases be? Several supposedly secure gov't sites have been hacked repeatedly. There is potential for abuse by insiders as well as outside hackers.

The government isn't known for its careful handling of citizens' private information. Federal agencies have abused their powers of surveyance.

Andrew, they don't have to ask for your SS number--this "spider" function will let them get it through your ID. Joan, this is how foreign nationals will again slip through the net--they won't have SS numbers, IRS numbers, US credit bureau or bank information...so it's Americans whose rights to privacy are invaded, not foreign terrorists.

Patrick, please explain to me EXACTLY how accessing the personal financial data of Americans--but NOT foreigners--makes us more secure?

I'm not defending this new system at all...but I would guess that future terrorists coming to America *would* get SS numbers in the future (even false ones). Scrutiny on foreign nationals will surely be much higher than on American citizens, so without an SS number your would stand out more.

Perhaps doing all these checks would reveal inconsistencies that would lead authorities to a real terrorist. I am not saying this is any better than breaking down doors without a warrant, just trying to understand the rationale. I don't like futher intrusions into my personal privacy, but I don't buy into the conspiracy theories that portray the government as trying to turn the US into 1984 - sorry.

Andrew

I think you people against these new security procedures are absolutely correct. Doing things like this in the name of public safety has got to stop. I mean don't you think its ridiculous I can't own an automatic weapon to defend myself and my family, or that I have to register with the government to buy a gun. How about all those traffic safety laws? Isn't is absurd that I can't drive as fast as I want, whenever I want. And we all know that those driver's licenses and social security cards are really just the government's way of tracking us. Don't even get me started on taxes and those invasive tax returns I have to fill out each year. I vote we do away with all this public safety nonsense and return to anarchy. Let us all carry our own guns on planes. That will stop hijackers dead in their tracks. Of course, maybe I'm just hearing the same voices in my head that you folks are hearing.

OK, so maybe the "I have nothing to hide" doesn't seem logical to some of you. But I frankly can get a lot more upset about how easy it is for ANYONE -- including criminals -- to get all my personal credit and other information, than I can about a branch of the US government getting that same information when I purchase an airline ticket. I realize that some of you have no respect at all for our government, and I don't regard them as the most organized group of people in the world either. But frankly I trust them with the information a lot more than any common criminal who has a minimum amount of knowledge of how to get all that same information and more from the internet and various other sources. If you are concerned with your total privacy, then spend you efforts trying to figure out how to stop that!!!

BT, don't you live in Belgium? What are the local authorities/airlines doing to protect their citizens? I don't believe you have an ACLU do you?
When I called to make a rental car reservation the other day, all I had to do was give them my name, they knew my street address and my car insurance. We already live in that kind of world! People already have access to everything about us.
I don't see it so much as 1984 or 2003-it is just naturally the Future. We are progressing. Computers will look up your high school pals, 20 years later. Why can't the airlines look up your criminal history?
I for one, am much more concerned about the possibility that they will miss someone and they will get on a plane. That is all that is important to me if I want to continue to fly. I do not want another plane to be hijacked and I really do not want to go to another funeral for innocent people that were killed because God Forbid, someone looked up his credit rating!

I agree with Patrick and those who say "I have nothing to hide". And I believe flying is a privilege NOT a right!

Oh, it is 2003. Sorry some of you didn't realize that it was and that really bad people use our laxness to kill us.

I agree with the above...it's not a right. And I say do not exempt foreign nationals...that'd be discriminatory.

This is a very interesting subject but I won't really get into it. One thing that does make me think though, how in the world would they have the manpower and time to check people's financial records to see if there is anything suspicious on them? This is America, people use credit cards for everything, how are they going to check out everyone? Or will it be random like the ridiculous body searches at the airport. I say ridiculous because out of a huge group of people coming home from a trip to Mexico, they decide to body search my 18 year old, bubble gum chewing, boy crazy sister-in-law. I guess she looked really threatening with the sandals, tank top and skirt she was wearing.