17 days to spend in North America
Feb 21st, 2011, 09:19 AM
#21
Sorry - but you probably don't want to take any long distance train trips -- CA Zephyr or others. It isn't like in Europe where you can pretty much depend on arriving on time (and making 2 minute connections w/ ease).
It is not uncommon for long distance Amtrak trains to be hours (or occasionally a full day) late. In the US, passenger trains have to wait on sidings for freight trains (which have track priority) to pass.
If you had weeks - sure -- but not on a whirlwind trip trying to see a lot of the USA.
It is not uncommon for long distance Amtrak trains to be hours (or occasionally a full day) late. In the US, passenger trains have to wait on sidings for freight trains (which have track priority) to pass.
If you had weeks - sure -- but not on a whirlwind trip trying to see a lot of the USA.
Feb 21st, 2011, 09:35 AM
#22
Just to be an agent provocateur, I thought I'd throw out a somewhat more aggressive possibility. 17 days in North America? Okay, here's a lot of North America.
Fly into Chicago and drive to Seattle, then drive down the coast to SF and finish there. Forget the train - you miss too much of the country because it's dark half the time.
Is it doable in your time frame? Yes, absolutely. I've done it and have taken European friends on the drive on a couple of occasions. They loved it… I mean loved it. By yourself? You bet. Load up the iPod with iconic music - road songs, Aaron Copeland… and take the highway. By European standards fuel, food and lodgings are inexpensive; there are perfectly safe, clean and comfortable roadside accommodations every few miles. People are friendly. Most of us, anyway.
In sheer road terms, it's 3-4 days from Chicago to Seattle comfortably, but you could take 5 and see some sights. My schedule wouldn't have you lingering anywhere in particular, but frankly that's the point; instead, you get a vivid idea of the scale of North America, of the mystique of the West. It's a kinetic experience as the perspective and vistas constantly change through the car windows. The Chicago suburbs end and you cross pure Americana countryside to the Mississippi. Through Wisconsin and southern Minnesota, with harvest scenes and color all around, then the Great Plains give way to low hills and the awesome vista over the Missouri River where Interstate 90 (the preferred route) crosses it in South Dakota.
Then the Badlands, the Black Hills, the Big Sky of eastern Montana; the Rockies and the wheat fields of eastern Washington, followed by the high Cascades, which will be in full autumn color, and on to Seattle, where the tunnel leading from Lake Washington into the city has the inscription - "Seattle, Portal to the Pacific."
Spend a couple of days in Seattle, then head south, via the Pacific coast as much as possible, down the Oregon coast and into northern California, through the Redwoods and the wine country, into San Francisco. At that time of year it will be a stunning, possibly life-changing drive.
Here's a conceptual timetable showing this route, follow I-90 all the way to Seattle.
Days 1 - 3, Chicago
Day 4, Chicago to Blue Earth Minnesota, home of the Jolly Green Giant (a must-see.)
Day 5, Blue Earth to Rapid City SD. Start the day in the Midwest, end it in the Old West. Stop for quick visits at the Corn Palace in Mitchell SD, at the overlook of the Missouri River at Chamberlain. Pull off for an hour's drive (easy) through Badlands National Park in west central South Dakota.
Day 6, Morning visit to Mount Rushmore, then through the Black Hills to Deadwood, where you can visit the side-by-side graves of Wild Bill Hickok and Calamity Jane, then re-join I-90 near Spearfish and continue west to Billings, Montana, stopping at the Little Big Horn battlefield, a very moving spot.
Day 7, Billings to Missoula Montana or Coeur d'Alene Idaho. Missoula is a very nice university town in the Rockies (Bitterroots, actually) while Coeur d'Alene a very scenic town on a spectacular giant lake.
Day 8, Missoula or Coeur d'Alene to Seattle, via the (harvest time) wheat fields of Eastern Washington, the Columbia River and the Cascades.
Days 9 - 11, Seattle
Day 10, Seattle to Portland, Oregon
Day 11, Portland to Bandon, Oregon - various options to get from Portland to the coast.
Day 12, Bandon to Ferndale, California (just south of Eureka) via the coast and Redwoods
Day 13, Ferndale to Sonoma, CA (wine country) OR Ferndale to Mendocino, CA, along the gorgeous coast.
Day 14, Sonoma or Mendocino to San Francisco
Days 15 - 17, San Francisco, home
Fly into Chicago and drive to Seattle, then drive down the coast to SF and finish there. Forget the train - you miss too much of the country because it's dark half the time.
Is it doable in your time frame? Yes, absolutely. I've done it and have taken European friends on the drive on a couple of occasions. They loved it… I mean loved it. By yourself? You bet. Load up the iPod with iconic music - road songs, Aaron Copeland… and take the highway. By European standards fuel, food and lodgings are inexpensive; there are perfectly safe, clean and comfortable roadside accommodations every few miles. People are friendly. Most of us, anyway.
In sheer road terms, it's 3-4 days from Chicago to Seattle comfortably, but you could take 5 and see some sights. My schedule wouldn't have you lingering anywhere in particular, but frankly that's the point; instead, you get a vivid idea of the scale of North America, of the mystique of the West. It's a kinetic experience as the perspective and vistas constantly change through the car windows. The Chicago suburbs end and you cross pure Americana countryside to the Mississippi. Through Wisconsin and southern Minnesota, with harvest scenes and color all around, then the Great Plains give way to low hills and the awesome vista over the Missouri River where Interstate 90 (the preferred route) crosses it in South Dakota.
Then the Badlands, the Black Hills, the Big Sky of eastern Montana; the Rockies and the wheat fields of eastern Washington, followed by the high Cascades, which will be in full autumn color, and on to Seattle, where the tunnel leading from Lake Washington into the city has the inscription - "Seattle, Portal to the Pacific."
Spend a couple of days in Seattle, then head south, via the Pacific coast as much as possible, down the Oregon coast and into northern California, through the Redwoods and the wine country, into San Francisco. At that time of year it will be a stunning, possibly life-changing drive.
Here's a conceptual timetable showing this route, follow I-90 all the way to Seattle.
Days 1 - 3, Chicago
Day 4, Chicago to Blue Earth Minnesota, home of the Jolly Green Giant (a must-see.)
Day 5, Blue Earth to Rapid City SD. Start the day in the Midwest, end it in the Old West. Stop for quick visits at the Corn Palace in Mitchell SD, at the overlook of the Missouri River at Chamberlain. Pull off for an hour's drive (easy) through Badlands National Park in west central South Dakota.
Day 6, Morning visit to Mount Rushmore, then through the Black Hills to Deadwood, where you can visit the side-by-side graves of Wild Bill Hickok and Calamity Jane, then re-join I-90 near Spearfish and continue west to Billings, Montana, stopping at the Little Big Horn battlefield, a very moving spot.
Day 7, Billings to Missoula Montana or Coeur d'Alene Idaho. Missoula is a very nice university town in the Rockies (Bitterroots, actually) while Coeur d'Alene a very scenic town on a spectacular giant lake.
Day 8, Missoula or Coeur d'Alene to Seattle, via the (harvest time) wheat fields of Eastern Washington, the Columbia River and the Cascades.
Days 9 - 11, Seattle
Day 10, Seattle to Portland, Oregon
Day 11, Portland to Bandon, Oregon - various options to get from Portland to the coast.
Day 12, Bandon to Ferndale, California (just south of Eureka) via the coast and Redwoods
Day 13, Ferndale to Sonoma, CA (wine country) OR Ferndale to Mendocino, CA, along the gorgeous coast.
Day 14, Sonoma or Mendocino to San Francisco
Days 15 - 17, San Francisco, home
Feb 21st, 2011, 10:31 AM
#24
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I have noting against the northwest - it's pretty and there's a lot to see and do. While I don't like much of CA (I prefer seasons and grass to desert and brown and crunchy) I do love SF and the surroundings.
But - if it were me - and you have never been there - I would do Boston a little of New England, DC and colonial Williamsburgh. Caveat: I am a history buff and like cities - small towns leave me cold - and while I enjoy looking at mountains, islands/sea and like nature (whale watching etc) there is no way I am hiking or camping or similar.
If you think you will really love the northwest go for it. If you're not sure - consider this alternative.
But - if it were me - and you have never been there - I would do Boston a little of New England, DC and colonial Williamsburgh. Caveat: I am a history buff and like cities - small towns leave me cold - and while I enjoy looking at mountains, islands/sea and like nature (whale watching etc) there is no way I am hiking or camping or similar.
If you think you will really love the northwest go for it. If you're not sure - consider this alternative.
Feb 21st, 2011, 10:32 AM
#25
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>>south from Seattle down 101 thru Oregon, see the coast and big waves, then go to Big Sur and see the Giant trees,, then on to Sonoma California for wine country (very beautiful) then on to San Francisto, Fisnerman's Wharf, the Golden Gate, etc....How can you lose.
Feb 21st, 2011, 11:07 AM
#26
The only flaw I see with guardyloo's trip plan is the drop off fee leaving the rental car in San Francisco.
My plan for flying to Denver involves boarding the train mid-morning and getting off in Reno mid-morning the next day.
Even if you arrive up to 2 hours late, the rental car counters are open at the airport or downtown.
I have been riding trains since October 2001. The first trip was 30 days by myself from Washington DC with stops as far north as Churchill Manitoba as far west as Vancouver as far south as El Paso Texas.
Flying to all of those cities would have cost at least 3 times as much.
The latest train I was ever on arrived in Winnipeg was 16 hours late after a western Ontario snowstorm.
My most recent trip on the Zephyr left Salt Lake City on time and arrived in Sacramento 10 minutes late. 11/8-9/2010
The reason I picked Reno was car rentals are cheaper and you arrive at a good time of day. What you miss in the dark in Nevada is not that interesting.
The northern route guardyloo suggested could work using the Empire Builder train for at least part of the route between Chicago and Seattle (or Portland) and using rental cars to see the things away from the tracks.
Yes Amtrak trains (and ViaRail) have to pull onto sidings to allow freight trains to pass in the opposite direction. This rarely delays the trains more than twice a day. There is a cushion built into the schedule at the fueling stops. If you can drive a rental car from point A to point B and fly home from B without a large drop off fee, go for it.
My plan for flying to Denver involves boarding the train mid-morning and getting off in Reno mid-morning the next day.
Even if you arrive up to 2 hours late, the rental car counters are open at the airport or downtown.
I have been riding trains since October 2001. The first trip was 30 days by myself from Washington DC with stops as far north as Churchill Manitoba as far west as Vancouver as far south as El Paso Texas.
Flying to all of those cities would have cost at least 3 times as much.
The latest train I was ever on arrived in Winnipeg was 16 hours late after a western Ontario snowstorm.
My most recent trip on the Zephyr left Salt Lake City on time and arrived in Sacramento 10 minutes late. 11/8-9/2010
The reason I picked Reno was car rentals are cheaper and you arrive at a good time of day. What you miss in the dark in Nevada is not that interesting.
The northern route guardyloo suggested could work using the Empire Builder train for at least part of the route between Chicago and Seattle (or Portland) and using rental cars to see the things away from the tracks.
Yes Amtrak trains (and ViaRail) have to pull onto sidings to allow freight trains to pass in the opposite direction. This rarely delays the trains more than twice a day. There is a cushion built into the schedule at the fueling stops. If you can drive a rental car from point A to point B and fly home from B without a large drop off fee, go for it.
Feb 21st, 2011, 11:20 AM
#27
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OK my 2 cents. When my friends or family from the UK come to the US they want to see the West and not the East Coast (except for NYC). Various reasons are given-- and I'm not vouching or subscribing to any of them--looks too much like the UK or parts of Europe, not different enough, the history really isn't that old or interesting to them, the museums are pale comparisons. Whereas they are absolutely fascinated by the West and it's history and geography--it's so vast that it is hard for them to comprehend. This coming fall my sister is doing a tour of Western Nat'l Parks with one of our friends who is excited beyond belief at the prospect of seeing the Black Hills, Badlands, etc. These are place names she recalls from US westerns she saw as a child and they call to her. So Gardyloo's itinery would be appealing.
Anyway this is just my way of saying brightdawns do what calls to you. What you want to see in the US, may differ vastly from what US residents think you should see.
Anyway this is just my way of saying brightdawns do what calls to you. What you want to see in the US, may differ vastly from what US residents think you should see.
Feb 21st, 2011, 11:24 AM
#28
The drop charge is a consideration regardless, and needs careful shopping. I can see Thrifty, for example, with a $900 drop charge for ORD-SFO over a two week period. Not inconsiderable, but it needs to be set against train fares, higher costs for accommodations in cities, and airfare if need be, plus in-city transportation in some areas. For example, with a car in Seattle the OP could stay outside the city center at lower cost accommodations (with free parking.) It all adds up.
Road trips are not necessarily the cheapest way to travel, just the most flexible.
Road trips are not necessarily the cheapest way to travel, just the most flexible.
Feb 21st, 2011, 12:01 PM
#29
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If you love nature you will love the drive from Seattle to San Francisco. It is about 3 hours from Seattle to Portland, then it would be nicely broken up if you want to drive down the coast through the giant redwoods and you can see some spectacular coastline through Oregon. Or stay on interstate 5 for more direct, but less scenic drive. The Oregon beaches are beautiful and everyone should see the giant redwoods in their lifetime! You could drive to San Francisco easily in 2-3 days from Seattle with some stopping along the way.
Feb 21st, 2011, 12:04 PM
#30
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It's true, that the west coast has a somewhat bigger appeal than the east, mostly because it is so different from anything back home, and also because it's a place not many go to from Europe. Oh yes, I like to be different...hah.
The drop-off charges are kind of mindblowing indeed but I gather one can find a good deal if one does thourough research. Perhaps.
I also like to keep things simple, which means that last year when I had a great plan about visiting both New York and San Francisco, I ended up staying in NYC alone for 10 days and skipping the other coast. Just to make it easier for myself. (It turned out to be a good thing though, because my take-off was in the middle of the ash-chaos and I had to cancel everything and rebook etc. only to still be able to fly on the day I was supposed to (the only Finnair plane in the air that day), easier to do when you have one flight and one hotel.)
But I hope I keep my composure this time and really take the opportunity to see something else than just one place.
Thank you everyone again (I sound like a broken record, but really mean it) for your input!
The drop-off charges are kind of mindblowing indeed but I gather one can find a good deal if one does thourough research. Perhaps.
I also like to keep things simple, which means that last year when I had a great plan about visiting both New York and San Francisco, I ended up staying in NYC alone for 10 days and skipping the other coast. Just to make it easier for myself. (It turned out to be a good thing though, because my take-off was in the middle of the ash-chaos and I had to cancel everything and rebook etc. only to still be able to fly on the day I was supposed to (the only Finnair plane in the air that day), easier to do when you have one flight and one hotel.)
But I hope I keep my composure this time and really take the opportunity to see something else than just one place.
Thank you everyone again (I sound like a broken record, but really mean it) for your input!
Feb 21st, 2011, 12:33 PM
#31
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Hmmmm.... Just a thought: Maybe you could fly into Vancouver, BC; explore Victoria and the rest of Vancouver Island (try the Wickaninnish Inn near Tofino!); head to Seattle; drive to San Francisco and fly home from there.
Keep in mind that late September is when it's rainy in the Pacific Northwest. (When I was a kid I called it "school weather.") It can still be beautiful as long as it doesn't dampen your spirits. ;-)
Keep in mind that late September is when it's rainy in the Pacific Northwest. (When I was a kid I called it "school weather.") It can still be beautiful as long as it doesn't dampen your spirits. ;-)
Feb 23rd, 2011, 06:22 AM
#34
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The coastal highhway down to San Francisco is breath taking! And if you do northern CA, make sure to go to Mendocino. A little New Englandish town on the cliffs overlooking the Pacific.
As far as Canada - the Canadian rockies are wonderful if you like nature. Great hiking. Lake Louise is beautiful and so is Banff. Cute little old town. The Fairmont there was magnificent.
Enjoy!
As far as Canada - the Canadian rockies are wonderful if you like nature. Great hiking. Lake Louise is beautiful and so is Banff. Cute little old town. The Fairmont there was magnificent.
Enjoy!
Feb 23rd, 2011, 06:53 AM
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I've actually done a Seattle to San Francisco drive and cannot recommend it highly enough. One stop you should consider - Olypmic National Park. It may seem a little out of the way, but it is one of the finest parks I've ever visited, and you'll need at least 2 days to even see the highlights. We did it on that trip, and we also loved the Oregon coast and the redwoods.
Feb 23rd, 2011, 08:44 AM
#36
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Thank you everyone for your advice!
I think I have made up my mind (at least for now... there's lots of time to change everything). I'll fly to Chicago, stay there for 3-4 nights, fly to Seattle, stay for three nights and then get on the road towards San Francisco, where I will stay for about four nights. That leaves the drive with about 6 nights.
I'm at the moment starting to dig into the various stops and researching what I'd like to see, or in fact HOW much I can see during the realtively short time I have to spend. Olympic National Park is something I really want to do, I spent the better half of last night reading about the park and looking at breathtaking photos. Hurricane Ridge and Ruby Beach are now must's for me. I'm also including at least Mendocino, Crescent City and Yachats.
Man, this is going to be so much fun!
I think I have made up my mind (at least for now... there's lots of time to change everything). I'll fly to Chicago, stay there for 3-4 nights, fly to Seattle, stay for three nights and then get on the road towards San Francisco, where I will stay for about four nights. That leaves the drive with about 6 nights.
I'm at the moment starting to dig into the various stops and researching what I'd like to see, or in fact HOW much I can see during the realtively short time I have to spend. Olympic National Park is something I really want to do, I spent the better half of last night reading about the park and looking at breathtaking photos. Hurricane Ridge and Ruby Beach are now must's for me. I'm also including at least Mendocino, Crescent City and Yachats.
Man, this is going to be so much fun!
Feb 24th, 2011, 06:42 PM
#38
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The train can be even longer -sometimes 12 hours late although better going north to south.
The trains in the US cannot be compared to European trains as they share the tracks with the freight trains who have right of way- I understand that with the economy, freight trains are not shipping as much and therefore passenger trains are better at keeping on schedule.
And there were would not be many scenic stops.
I live in Eugene so am pretty familiar with the coast from Lincoln City down to Florence- if you would like recommendations for those areas let me know.
I usually stay at the Adobe Motel, just north of Yachats. It is on the ocean, has a restaurant and bar with great views and you can easily walk into town.
If you stay there, check out the old church in town, has a museum with interesting artifacts of Oregon life.
sounds like a great adventure for you
The trains in the US cannot be compared to European trains as they share the tracks with the freight trains who have right of way- I understand that with the economy, freight trains are not shipping as much and therefore passenger trains are better at keeping on schedule.
And there were would not be many scenic stops.
I live in Eugene so am pretty familiar with the coast from Lincoln City down to Florence- if you would like recommendations for those areas let me know.
I usually stay at the Adobe Motel, just north of Yachats. It is on the ocean, has a restaurant and bar with great views and you can easily walk into town.
If you stay there, check out the old church in town, has a museum with interesting artifacts of Oregon life.
sounds like a great adventure for you
Feb 24th, 2011, 06:47 PM
#39
Despite what others have said about Amtrak train travel, the Coast Starlight leaves Seattle at 11:45AM everyday and arrives in Emeryville, CA about 23 hours later. (Amtrak bus to SF)
If you wanted to take a break from the train, get tickets to Eugene, OR,rent a car and either see Florence on the coast or maybe Crater Lake. The next Coast Starlight leaves Eugene 24 hours after you got off.
Saving the drop off fee would go a long way toward your train fare.
I think that those who criticize Amtrak have ridden it less than 1000 miles in their lives. I drive where I must, fly when I have to be far away in a hurry and take the train and rent a car when I have no real time pressure. We're retired.
If you wanted to take a break from the train, get tickets to Eugene, OR,rent a car and either see Florence on the coast or maybe Crater Lake. The next Coast Starlight leaves Eugene 24 hours after you got off.
Saving the drop off fee would go a long way toward your train fare.
I think that those who criticize Amtrak have ridden it less than 1000 miles in their lives. I drive where I must, fly when I have to be far away in a hurry and take the train and rent a car when I have no real time pressure. We're retired.
