Sojourntraveller

We do indeed agree on Slow Travel TC. But I was referring to MOST people, not all people.

If your comments are all related to how YOU travel and my comments are all related to how MOST travel vs. how I travel, then we won't find common ground except indirectly. Our comments have to refer to the same travellers to be comparable do they not.

If you like to pre-book slow travel I have no problem with that.

If most people like to pre-book a tour I actually have no problem with that either. I just think they should look at the alternative rather than assuming they have to pre-book.

Personally, I don't like to pre-book even for slow travel which is pretty much all of my travels. I like to see what I am renting, see what is nearby etc. before I decide where I will stay.

I don't think there is anything we are actaully disagreeing on.

Annhig, you're booking wrong if you think the word association is less than clear.

annhig

Annhig, you're booking wrong if you think the word association is less than clear.>>

is there a "shaking head in bemusement" emoticon?

you've lost me there, SJ, but please don't try to explain, I think that you would argue over the number of angels on a pin head.

TC

After reading your TR to Greece SJ, I take it back...we do not share common ground. I'm not willing (and I believe I can speak for MOST people on this) to sit for "3 hours" in a tavern with expats hoping one of them will rent me a 20 Euros per night room with no heat or hot water. I'm not will to "white lie" to them about who I am and why I'm there in order to get that room. I'm not willing to rent someone's brother's, friends, uncle's unsellable junk car to drive around in. I'm not willing to spend six days driving said car back and forth from one town to the other to find another place to sleep because the whole island is closed for the season. I call that more than "slow travel". I, too, am shaking my head.....not sure its bemusement, though.

Seriously.....to each his own.

janisj

He posted the same trip report under a previous screen name. Doesn't sound any better/more believable as Sojourntraveller

(sj: Just a hint - though it appears you don't take 'hints'. . . >><i>They also when defending planning, use a worst case example as if it was an every day event. Such as your 4pm comment earlier. </i><< doesn't make sense since each reader only sees the time stamp as it was <u>in their own time zone</u>. So most folks won't have any idea which post you are referring to. A 9AM post for annhig will be a 1AM post when I read it the next morning).

TC

It does sound fictional, JanisJ. According to the TR, he was going to stay in Greece for months, but never posted beyond the first few days. Writers block??

annhig

to be fair, jj, I think that the OP was referring to my apparently unreasonable desire to start looking for accommodation at 4pm, if we are travelling without having pre-booked accommodation. The OP seems to think that that is against the rules of "winging it" and prefers to book his room from an adjacent cafe - IMO if you're going to book on the fly, you might as well see what you're getting!

janisj

oh -- I didn't see your 4PM reference . . . That makes sense.

Sojourntraveller

It not only makes sense janisj, it makes your 'hin't remark, which you clearly intended as an insult, look stupid.

TC, I have unlimited time for travel. What's wrong with sitting in a taverna for 3 hours enjoying a few glasses of wine. Is there a rush to find a room? Not for me.

As for the 'white lie', I don't know what got people excited about that. I am in fact a qualified skipper with many miles of sailing behind me. The 'white lie' I was referring to was only the part about being between boats. No big deal, being between boats is not the same as saying, 'I have money, I don't need to work for a living, I'm looking to stay 6 months.' One brands you as another working person, the other can brand you as someone with money someone else can look to take advantage of. Believe me, I know all about expats and how many of them have some undesirable qualities that you need to learn to avoid.

I wrote an update on that trip report saying I had stayed 6 months and was leaving in September for Elat, Israel where I am now. I can clearly recall writing some specific things but it appears as if I never posted it and yet I'm sure I did. I have no explanation for what happened to that update.

Annhig, I don't care if you look for a room at 4 pm. What I wrote and what I suspect you fully understand is that unless you are doing that EVERY DAY, using it as an excuse to suggest pre-booking makes more sense than winging it, is illogical. If taking TC's slow travel (move once a week or less), then it has hardly going to have a huge impact on his time if he looks for a room at 4pm once a week. Your using the 4pm as if it were every day is what is unreasonable.

If you move hotels every day, then yes, looking for a room every day would be a pain in the butt. But I am certainly not interested in discussing how to travel and whether or not pre-booking is preferable to winging it, with someone who moves every day. That person has far bigger travel problems than whether to pre-book or not.

I really don't see what it is about pre-booking that some of you think is worth arguing about. Pre-book if it is a one destination only vacation. Pre-book if it is business travel where you know you will follow an itinerary.

But do not attempt to tell me that it makes sense to pre-book when touring to new places where you cannot know how long you will wish to stay in each place.

TC

I think you have mistaken yourself for a vacationer SJ, when in reality you are a vagabond. What a huge difference. Most of those who post questions on this and other boards are vacationers -- on holiday for a fixed amount of time. They have jobs, families, homes, responsibilities that require them to return. Their time is both fixed and precious. Its lovely that you are a vagabond, with no rudder, blowing with the breeze. Roam on.

janisj

>>Most of those who post questions on this and other boards are vacationers -- on holiday for a fixed amount of time. <<

Oh no TC, now you've done it! Now sj will attack the pleb Fodorites who are merely 'vacationers' . . . just as he did in his previous incarnations.

annhig

I really don't see what it is about pre-booking that some of you think is worth arguing about. Pre-book if it is a one destination only vacation. Pre-book if it is business travel where you know you will follow an itinerary.>>

And i don't see what it is about winging it that you think it's worth arguing about to this extent, SJ. You seem unable to accept that other people may have different circumstances and views to you. believe me, it is very different being on holiday for a week than it is to have 3+ weeks let alone an unlimited time for your trip. Furthermore, it is very different for the americans on this board when they come to Europe, especially for the first time. They are out of their comfort zone, they are usually visiting large cities where they want to be in the centre where accommodation can be very difficult to find at short notice, they want to know where they are going to be, and what they are going to be able to see, before they arrive. They don't know when they might be able to come back and they want to get it "right".

It may not be my travel style, but I understand why it is theirs.

OTOH, you are "between boats" [is that what actors refer to as "resting"?] you are well travelled, you are probably not too bothered about how many square feet your room has or whether there is a separate shower stall, and you are "time rich". And have only yourself to please.

and actually, on a short trip it DOES matter that you need [I certainly need] to start looking for accommodation at 4pm, even if you're not doing it every day. On our recent trip to Germany, it made sense to pre-book our first 2 nights in Hannover as we knew that we weren't going to arrive there until about 8pm, so we wanted to know where we were going to sleep. Then we knew that we wanted to be in Wernigerode, as we wanted to be able to catch the train up the Brocken from there, without having to drive. [just as well we did prebook - it was a weekend and the place was full of Germans enjoying a weekend away in the Harz and I doubt that there was a bed to be had in the whole town]. For the rest of the trip we hedged our bets by pre-booking rooms that we could cancel up to 6pm on the day - so if we'd found somewhere different we wanted to stay, or we decided to stay longer, we could have done. In fact the system worked well, and the 2 nights we'd booked in each place were ideal for us on this trip.

We have done longer "ad hoc" trips where we booked nothing in advance or just the first night or two, but that has been when we have had much longer - well over two weeks - and the trip itself was partially the object rather than what we wanted to see.

Horses for courses, applies here I think.

TC

Oh JJ...his attacks mean nothing, of course. Its just rather humorous to play word games. Who really cares a fig how he <u>says</u> he travels....or for that matter, how any of us travel. If someone asks for MY advice, I shall give it. They are free to take it or leave it. I do think its in poor taste to berate people just for sport which seems to be SJ's game of choice. But then, he doesn't claim to be a man of refined manners, does he? Words.....just black squiggles on a white space.

Sojourntraveller

Some people find it necessary to attack the person when they are not capable of attacking the subject.

Pre-book for a late arrival makes sense to me annhig. As you say, 'it made sense'. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with (well it isn't my problem actually) is when people pre-book a series of places when they have no way of knowing how long they will want to stay in a place. If you are going to quote the first part of what I wrote, why then ignore the second part?

"But do not attempt to tell me that it makes sense to pre-book when touring to new places where you cannot know how long you will wish to stay in each place."

The assumption is that they must get to all the places on a list. Getting to 5 places is not better than only getting to 2 places from a list IF what you do with each day in only 2 places is worthwhile in your own opinion. It is what you do with your day, not how many places you do it in.

How long someone has available is irrelevant UNLESS they think that quantity is more important than quality. 'I've got one week and 5 places I want to visit, therefore I must move 4 times'.

Re 'resting', no annhig that doesn't apply. I simply no longer need to work for a living. But I am well aware of how the only 2 weeks per year vacation time works. Been there, done that as they say. However, when I was in that position, I did not try to cram a quart into a pint pot.

I agree completly with one sentence you wrote annhig, " They don't know when they might be able to come back and they want to get it "right".

That is what puts them in the frame of mind most start with but in my opinion, it starts them down the wrong path of trying to see and do too much in too little time. They become a list ticker. What if they started from this position.

I would like to visit many places in Europe. However, I have no way of knowing how much time I will want to spend in each place beforehand. So if I cannot logically know how long I will need, how can I logically pre-book a place? Therefore, I will book my first late night arrival and see what happens after that. Realistically, whether I ever get back to Europe or not, I cannot expect to visit every place of interest to me. So logically, it makes no sense for me to try to do so. All that will result in is my rushing from place to place and probably not spending enough time in any of them. That is not best use of my time. Better to visit fewer places and see and do what interests me in each, rather than waste a large percentage of my limited time in moving between places.

Getting it 'right' is easy if you don't expect to do it all in one trip and realize you cannot do it all in one trip. The difference is in realizing that what you 'want' to do and what you will have time to do, may not be one and the same.

You wrote, "we wanted to be in Wernigerode, as we wanted to be able to catch the train up the Brocken from there". That was what you 'wanted' but what you didn't KNOW was how long you would want to stay in Hanover.

I understand you personally might be willing to change your plans mid-stream to accomodate something but MOST will not do so. They follow their itinerary as if it was carved in stone.