I'm serious. I don't know!

I use my local bank's ATM card mostly to take money out of my local ATM here in the US. I use my Amex card at the usual spots that take it, but never to take money out of an ATM.

I have read recently something about a chip on a card, but frankly I'm clueless what you're all talking about. I'm sure none of my cards has one. What do they do for me, in general?

Do I NEED one when I try using either kind of card in Europe next spring? I'll want to use the ATM card to get Euros out of an ATM (the bank version; it's a credit, not a debit card; I won't use the Amex at an ATM unless I have to). I'll use either of them to charge the usual things as I travel.

I'll check with my bank, of course, and with Amex, but I'd bet you experience travelers would also know what I'd need to know with respect to the travel aspects of the subject.

Thx.

Chip and PIN is the system used in most of Europe and 99+% of US issued cards don't have it.

But not to worry, 90+% of places in Europe will accept your US cards.They may have to use a "get around" to process the transaction, but it will work. Some places like automated ticket machines and unmanned petrol stations can be a problem. But if there is staffing around, use a ticket window and you'll be fine.

For more info, I'd re-post over on the Europe forum (before a certain 'lovable' Fodorite pops in here w/ his usual takeon things . . .)

so, janisj, do I understand you to say that if my US mag strip card currently has a PIN associated with it, that that PIN would NOT work without also having the right kind of chip, in places where a chip and pin system is required? not a problem; I'm just trying to learn here...and thx

This is only for credit cards. They have an embedded chip and you have to key a PIN to use them. Here in the States we sign cc slips, there you enter a PIN.

Your ATM PIN is not affected. Your magnetic strip ATM/debit card and your regular PIN works fine in most any cash machine in Europe. Just like at home.

The chip-and-pin system doesn't apply to ATMs. Insert your ATM card (hopefully not a credit card) into the machine and use your 4-digit PIN to take out cash.

Chip-and-pin applies only to purchases. Businesses can (but sometimes refuse) to process regular credit-card transactions. But you will not be able to buy train tickets from a machine or use your credit or debit card in a machine unless it has a chip and PIN. As others have said, this technology is not used in the U.S. You can purchase a pre-loaded chip-and-pin card if you really need it for these kinds of transactions, and you can reload it as necessary, but you lose a lot on the exchange rate. Still, it can be useful.

Also realize that Amex is not universally accepted in Europe. You may need another credit card anyway. I usually strongly discourage people from using their debit/ATM cards to make purchases in Europe or anywhere while traveling since if there is fraud, money can be taken from your actual bank account in cash and may not be restored for several days or even weeks.

I should add ... if your credit card from the U.S. has a PIN, its only use is to take money from an ATM machine, not an advisable use since it's really expensive. Interest begins to accrue immediately, and there is usually a rather large fee just for each use in addition to interest.

Here's a picture of a chip credit card:

http://www.mastercard.com/au/persona...hip%20Card.jpg

I'm surprised the US isn't using them yet. I don't think any Canadian bank doesn't issue chip credit cards at this point.

Thx, all, for helping me understand this newfangled stuff!

Tom congrats on your trip I go to Europe a lot

I use 2 no foreign fee credit cards currently

www.capitalone.com VentureVISA CC ATM with it with my PIN

but pay all transactions with it get double miles no fees.

no liability can reverse all charges.

Keep in mind ATM withdrawals are treated as cash withdrawals

accrue high interest on all cards from day 1 so I pay off

quickly. I have a back up no fee Visa Chase Preferred Card.

I do not travel abroad with ATM or Debit card many "skimmers"

which can get your pin and clean all funds out of your

account so beware there. Have fun,

I do carry Amex smaller places do not take it though.

Skimming is the theft of credit card information used in an otherwise legitimate transaction. It is typically an "inside job" by a dishonest employee of a legitimate merchant. The thief can procure a victim's credit card number using basic methods such as photocopying receipts or more advanced methods such as using a small electronic device (skimmer) to swipe and store hundreds of victims’ credit card numbers. Common scenarios for skimming are restaurants or bars where the skimmer has possession of the victim's credit card out of their immediate view.[9] The thief may also use a small keypad to unobtrusively transcribe the 3 or 4 digit Card Security Code which is not present on the magnetic strip. Call centers are another area where skimming can easily occur.

Instances of skimming have been reported where the perpetrator has put a device over the card slot of an ATM (automated teller machine), which reads the magnetic strip as the user unknowingly passes their card through it.These devices are often used in conjunction with a miniature camera (inconspicuously attached to the ATM) to read the user's PIN at the same time.This method is being used very frequently in many parts of the world, including South America, Argentina[14] Europe, the Netherlands.Another technique used is a keypad overlay that matches up with the buttons of the legitimate keypad below it and presses them when operated, but records or transmits the keylog of the PIN entered by wireless. The device or group of devices illicitly installed on an ATM are also colloquially known as a "skimmer". Recently-made ATMs now often run a picture of what the slot and keypad are supposed to look like as a background, so that consumers can identify foreign devices attached.

Skimming is difficult for the typical cardholder to detect, but given a large enough sample, it is fairly easy for the card issuer to detect.

We recently added a chip Chase card to our Visa Debit & Credit and Mastercard Credit cards-- we read that chip cards are more prevalent in ATMs in Europe. However, we used our visa debit card with NO problems in Italy two months ago. One of the problems associated with these new chip cards, as well as our US passports issued after 2006, is that the chip can be skimmed walking on the street with a reader-device for name, address and account information, copied and resold for a fortune on the internet within minutes. To avoid this latest technological scam, we now keep our passports and this chip card in an RFID blocking wallet. They are quite inexpensive and I always use this wallet for city travel anywhere. You would get the protection against fraud from your bank, BUT before you realize it, it could cost you much aggravation. Google RFID and learn for yourselves before deciding on a chip card. It is easy to recognize them-- they are substantially heavier than other cards w/ magnetic strips.

"<i>We recently added a chip Chase card to our Visa Debit & Credit and Mastercard Credit cards--we read that chip cards are more prevalent in ATMs in Europe</i>"

The chip/PIN issue is re <i>credit cards</i>. ATM/debit cards are not affected . . .

From DH, who is a computer architect at a company whose software runs mnay of the ATMS around the world: the chip is more secure. In the US, there are almost no ATMs that accept chip cards. In Europe, non-chip cards are becoming increasingly difficult to use at an ATM.

janissj, he disagrees with what you say about debit cards not being affected.

Yes, janisj, I know it is a credit card-- but of course you can withdraw cash on it and accrue high interest penalties immediately. I just 'mentioned' that we also have a debit and another credit card.

European chip credit cards are not RFID chips and cannot be skimmed by a device used when walking down the street. In fact I seriously doubt a RFID chip can be screened like that - the reader would need to be a lot closer.

A chipped card is far less liable to be skimmed than one with only a magnetic strip. it is far harder to replace the reader so that it is not noticeable. Contrary to what Qwoadis says skimming is a highly organised crime and does not rely on an insider. In fact you are more likely to have a card skimmed at an ATM than in a shop.

ATM cards in Europe now also have a chip which is use for payment in shops. In the Netherlands at least you can no longer swipe a debit/ATM card to make a payment in shops and machines, and since credit cards use the same machine normally it may prove to be difficult to pay with a non chipped card, since the new machines only have a chip reader.

In Canada debit/ATM cards are being issued with chips as well. Not sure how prevalent they are in Europe (I'm guessing non-existent in the US). However, like chip credit cards, they also have the magnetic strip.

abram,

I have had no problem using my US-issued, non chip, debit card at ATMs all over Europe. I'm surprised by your husband's statement. I AM encountering more retail establishments which are reluctant to take it and it is no use at all at non-staffed petrol stations or automatic toll booths on autoroutes.

As someone mentioned, credit cards with pins (but without chips) can be used at ATMs but the interest and fees are very high.

An exception: ATMs inside grocery stores, convenience stores, small rail stations are sometimes owned and serviced by companies not part of national or international banks. Those often do not accept debit or credit cards lacking chips.

I'm a frequent traveler to England, Brit by birth, and was able to use my US magnetic stripe debit card in certain ATMs on my last trip to England (Oct. 2011) but not all, and none of my credit or debit cards was accepted for purchases at restaurants, stores, etc. They simply do not have the capability to process US obsolete (to their way of thinking) technology, as they all use the small, handheld devices these days. Now this is in England, mind you, and it may be different in other parts of Europe; however, my advice is to either pay the exorbitant annual fee associated with getting a new US issued chip and pin card,available from Chase, Wells Fargo, BofA, US Bank and probably others now, or to go the pre-loaded chip and pin debit card route.