Elizabeth_S

Oh dear - I recommended the Puerto Montt Angelmo market....but not for scarves. We found the many food stalls so interesting.

yestravel

I hope I didn't recommend or oversell PV. Actually I don't remember being particularly impressed or loving PV. It was a lovely, scenic town where we spent one night before the lake crossing. We did have wonderful views of the volcanoes for almost all our time in the area and that was nice. what I did love was the paltas (avocado) in Chile.

thursdaysd

<b>Elizabeth</b> - Likely I've seen too many markets. At least I still go look at them, while I rather hope I've seen my last pottery demo, glass blowing demo, silk making demo and carpet weaving demo.... Nothing especially against the Angelmo market, it just didn't seem that different from a lot of other markets.

<b>crosscheck</b> - I don't really have top destinations, just a long list of places I'd like to revisit, and another of places I haven't been to yet. Plus, I've been traveling for over ten years, and places change. The Myanmar I saw in 2004 isn't the Myanmar you'd see now. The Luang Prabang I loved in 2002 isn't the LP I saw in 2011. And the Beijing that started my love affair with Asia in 1997 disappeared years ago.

However, if you mean "which places would you want to visit if told you had only three trips before you die", I suppose the answer would be:

1. London
2. The Himalayas. Don't especially care which section, although if the situation in Pakistan were better I'd love to ride the Karakorum Highway again.
3. Central Asia. It's been top of my "want to visit" list for years, but somehow I never get there.

BTW, Patagonia has been a great trip, definitely get out of Santiago!

Hi <b>Marija</b> - nice to see you. Hope you're staying warm....

thursdaysd

<b>yestravel</b> - no, I was going to Puerto Varas anyway. It seemed (and was) a better option than Puerto Montt for a stop between the Evangelistas and the bus-boat trek across the Andes. But I did notice that you wrote that you admired the old houses.

yestravel

Certainly agree its a better option than PM. Correct, I thought some of the old German wooden houses on the hill near the Vicky Johnson Guest House were of interest.
In any case, I am so enjoying reliving our trip thru your TR. Always enjoy reading others perceptions of places I have travelled. Thanks for taking us along your journey. Can't wait to c what u think of the boat bus boat trip to Bariloche.

thursdaysd

<b>Nov 22, 2012: Bus, Boat, Bus, Boat... Day One</b>

When I planned this trip, I was not thinking about water, aside from whether I could drink it from the tap. I had in mind an overview of southern South America, which I associated with mountains and savannah, but instead I encountered water, in various forms, everywhere. From the Atlantic Ocean in Rio, to the magnificent torrents at Iguazu and then the wide delta of the Rio Platte, from the wild, frozen rivers of the Southern Ice Cap to the Pacific Ocean, I had hardly spent a day away from water in one form or another. And now, after four days by Lago Llanquihue, I would spend a further thirteen visiting a few of the multitude that made up the Argentinian and Chilean Lake Districts, before revisiting the Pacific at Valparaiso and finally the Atlantic again in Florida.

We can't live without water, but it's power is formidable. Both too much and too little create havoc. However, the lakes I was about to see were simply notable for their beauty, and that of their setting. I could have taken a bus direct from Puerto Montt to Bariloche in Argentina, but instead I decided to spend around ten times as much to take the scenic route - four buses and three boats. Then I upped the price by deciding to spend a night in tiny Peulla instead of going straight through. It would not, out of high season, get me to Bariloche any earlier than 20:00, but it would give me more time in the mountains, and less travel per day.

Bus (or coach) number one takes you along the shore of Llanquihue from Puerto Varas to Petrohue (sit on the left for the best views). We had a short stop to visit the Petrohue falls, but this was really no fun, as several coaches all stopped at the same time. Maybe I have been on the road too long, but I am really starting to get annoyed by people who think their desire to have a photo of themselves in front of a sight trumps my desire to actually look at it.

The day had started cold and grey, but as our boat crossed Lago Todos los Santos the clouds lifted, and we had good views of the surrounding mountains. The big boat was only partly full, presumably a lot of the people at Petrohue had been on different excursions, though I can't imagine why the stops aren't staggered. As we neared Peulla the guide, who had been doing a good job with English, explained the excursions on offer. Having discovered in Hawaii that helicopter rides triggered my increasing fear of heights I had no need to consider that pricy option, and decided instead on an off-road ride. 

First, I needed to check-in and eat lunch. Peulla has two hotels, right next to each other. After reading the tripadvisor reviews I had reluctantly decided I should spring for the more expensive Natura, as the aging Peulla seemed overdue for major renovations. However, when I bought my tickets I was told that I should opt for the Peulla and I would probably be upgraded as too few people were traveling for it to be open. Good advice. I had a lovely room in the Natura with wrap-around windows framing a mountain view, and broad window seats. 

I invited the only other single, an Israeli woman, to join me for lunch. It turned out that she was going straight through, which was perhaps as well, as we wound up, thanks to a remark she made about Obama, having a political dispute. She seemed unaware that there was any issue with settlements in the West Bank, nor that extremists on both sides could be equally in error. 

The afternoon excursion wasn't stellar - too much time visiting hens and pigs and sheep for my taste - but the scenery when we left the farmyard and drove across a river to take a short ride on a pontoon boat was worth seeing. Then I trekked up a short path for a look at a nearby waterfall, concluding that it really hadn't been worth the effort. (Maybe Iguazu has set my standards too high!) I finished a satisfactory day with an excellent, if expensive, meal that included the best salad I'd had in weeks - avocado, hearts of palm, asparagus....

Huentetu

That lunch must have been exciting! Just as well she was moving on. We sometimes click with fellow travellers and sometimes don't.

We did the crossing years ago and opted to take our own picnic rather than lunch in Peulla on the one day crossing. I can still see the huge bag of Chilean cherries we brought with us. We had bread and cheese too. We walked up to the waterfall you mention to eat our picnic, sitting listening to the birds and the falls. It is a small waterfall but just fine for a summer picnic!

avrooster

thursdaysd: congratulations on the great response to this thread!

thursdaysd

Huentetu - well, we were both polite, and agreed that if I ran into her in Bariloche we would not talk politics (we were booked into the same place, but didn't meet for reasons that will become apparent later).

avrooster - thanks. Of course, on a long trip the thread does tend to get long. I hope you feel I've been doing justice to Patagonia.

thursdaysd

<b>Nov 23, 2012: Bus, Boat, Bus, Boat... Day Two</b>

After all the good luck I had had with the weather, I could hardly complain when I woke in Peulla to a cold, cloudy morning. In fact, it had been so cold overnight (although not in my room) that there was fresh snow on the highest mountains. However, the weather never really improved, and so the views weren't up to those of Day One.

Day One, we had left Puerto Varas at 8:30, but the fourteen of us who had both overnighted in Peulla and were moving on to Bariloche, didn't have to board the next bus until 11:00 - and until we had cleared Chilean immigration and customs. The office was in a small building on the other side of the equally small school next to the Natura - I did mention that Peulla was tiny, didn't I?

This bus ride took us up, and up, to the actual border and then down to Puerto Frias. The high point of the pass is at 976 meters (3,200 feet), and we watched the trees and shrubs change as we ascended. Even on a bad weather day this was perhaps the best leg of the whole trip for me.

At Puerto Frias we were lined up by name to be stamped into Chile, and selected bags (luggage is handled for you) were given a very cursory inspection. But then we had to wait for the boat carrying the Bariloche to Puerto Varas passengers to arrive. And for all of them to be cleared into Chile. Then we were handed off to the Argentinian guide. Now, the Israeli woman had complained that the Chilean guides short-changed English speakers, giving them less information. I hadn't noticed that in Chile, nor in Buenos Aires, but I now encountered it in spades in the Argentinian Lake District, starting with this guide, who I found rather rude, as well. 

The boat ride to our next stop, Puerto Blest, was short, which was just as well, as starvation was setting in. I was not at all impressed by the hotel at Puerto Blest, and given the bad weather I was stuck inside it for several hours. The last boat ride is across Nahuel Huapi Lake, but there is only one boat a day out of season, and we were waiting for the people who had started the day in Puerto Varas to arrive. Although the boat was very big, it left packed, as apparently it's also used for people doing day trips out of Bariloche. 

Aside from a brief safety video, all the announcements on the boat, including information about the sights, were in Spanish only. Now, I realize that I was in a Spanish speaking country, and that many, if not most, of the tourists were from Spanish speaking countries, but the trip was marketed to international tourists, with English language flyers and an English language website, and I find it unacceptable that no attempt was made to provide English information. (After I complained to the woman distributing comment forms there was one brief announcement in English about which bus to board when leaving the boat. Since there were three buses in the designated location this wasn't very helpful.) There were occasions in Patagonia when I was reminded of the attitude of Parisians thirty years ago.

So, Day Two started out well, despite the weather, but then went downhill. You could just go up to Peulla and back to Puerto Varas, skipping the Argentinian legs altogether, but I thought the first bus and boat rides on Day Two the best of the trip.

tripplanner001

I think your observations about water are very interesting, Thursdaysd. While I'm aware of the glaciers in Patagonia and the Brazilian coast, I guess water would not be the first thing that comes to mind when I think of South America. Instead, I picture the tall mountain peaks of the Andes, historic sites such as Machu Picchu, etc., but come to think of it, you're absolutely right about the water!

thursdaysd

<b>Status:</b> I am back in Chile, in Pucon, with horrible weather. No views, and certainly no hiking. I feel sorry for the people who headed up Volcan Villarica before the weather broke. I thought about changing my plans - leaving early and stopping somewhere on the way to Valparaiso, but as when I made the itinerary in the first place there didn't seem to be anywhere worthwhile. So I am here until Tuesday evening when I take a night bus north. I might even get the TR caught up to date!!!

<b>Nov 24, 2012: Arriving in Bariloche</b>

My day, which had started well in Peulla, continued to deteriorate once the coach arrived in Bariloche. It was supposed to drop me at my hotel, which was on Salta, but the sulky guide informed me that the coach wasn't allowed on Salta, so I would have to walk. Up a very steep hill. Since I later saw a garbage truck on the street outside the hotel I have severe doubts about his veracity. 

I had some trouble getting a reservation in Bariloche, and came to find out that, despite my attempt to avoid a holiday weekend, I had been unsuccessful. Not that anyone seemed to know what the holiday was for. I had finally reserved a superior double at the Tango Inn Downtown, another HI hostel, based on my guidebook, and on tripadvisor reviews, which spoke well of the superior doubles. After I checked in, somewhat out of breath, I carted my bag up four flights of stairs (OK, it was a hostel), to room 15.

Since the curtains were drawn, I turned on the light. Or, rather, I tried to turn on the light. None of the lights worked. Pausing only to check that there was in fact a view of the lake, I went back downstairs. The guy on the front desk claimed surprise, and collected some light bulbs before coming back upstairs with me. I was not surprised when the lights didn't work for him either, and I had no faith in someone showing up to fix the problem at 8:00 pm on a holiday Friday. The standard double he gave me instead looked miserable, minimally furnished and battered, and that was before I found I couldn't flush the toilet. I went out to look for another room, but not with optimism.

I passed up the expensive Edelweiss, and two places with "Closed" signs, struck out at one place, noted a twin available at another hostel, and then scored a room with a lake view for the next three nights at the Hotel Tirol. I figured I could survive one night at the Tango Inn, and after the discount for cash, and the discount on the exchange rate for paying in dollars, the rate at the Tirol was not that much higher, and the room and the hotel in a different class altogether. Winding up in such a nice place was pure luck, as even if I been given a functioning superior double at the Tango Inn it didn't look particularly welcoming.

Then, as with the meal at Casimiro Bigua in El Calafate, a bad day was significantly improved by dinner. It took me a while to find a restaurant, as the touristy main street seemed to offer nothing but chocolate shops, so I entered La Marmite with considerable relief. Their mushroom soup was absolutely delicious, and especially welcome after several unfortunate encounters with mushrooms of the canned variety. The Zurich style beef was good too. In fact, I liked the restaurant so well I ate there three of my four nights in town, although I should also mention that the bife de chorizo at El Boliche de Alberto was fine, and that I would have eaten at Familia Weiss the fourth night, if anyone had paid attention to me when I entered.

The lake view - from both rooms - was worth paying for. I had a run of clear, sunny days, and there were times when the mountain tops were so sharp-edged against the sky that they looked like cut-outs. I think the view would have been even better further west at Lao Lao, but there would have been fewer services, and probably no cheap places to stay. The famous Hotel Lao Lao certainly wasn't cheap. 

But there were even better views on offer.

thursdaysd

<b>Nov 23-26, 2012: A Most Beautiful View</b>

Anyone walking down Mitre Street in Bariloche could be forgiven for thinking that you visited the town in order to eat chocolate. Maybe some people do, but a better reason is to admire the views from the neighboring mountains. A lot of sites claim that National Geographic rated the view from Cerro Campanario as one of the ten best in the world. I can't find any verification for that on the National Geographic web site, but having seen the view I agree it's possible.

I reached the top of Cerro Campanario, some thousand feet above the town, the old fashioned way. I hiked up. Most people rode the chair lift, but not only was I in need of exercise, I hate those things. The older I get, the worse my fear of heights becomes. Unfortunately, the path turned out to be both very steep in places, and also covered in ash from the 2011 eruption of Volcan Puyehue, and without a hiking stick I had doubts about my ability to walk back down.

I spent a lot of quality time at the top, partly outside, and partly eating lunch in the cafeteria, with a marvelous view. But I couldn't stay there forever. I eventually decided that the chair lift would be the lesser of the two evils, but I spent the entire seven minute ride with my eyes shut, holding on for dear life.

At that point, I should have quit while I was ahead. But there were two more mountains, still higher, Otto and Catedral. Checking with the TI, I found out that Catedral, a major ski center, wasn't open, but I could take an enclosed ride up Otto. Big mistake. I was thinking funicular, but the only difference between the chair lift and the cable cars was that the cars were enclosed and held four. They were still suspended in mid-air. This time I rode both up and down with my eyes shut, and since Otto was a thousand feet higher than Campanario, the ride was longer. Despite including Bariloche itself, I didn't think the views measured up, although they might be better in the morning.

Not until I sat down in Otto's cafeteria did I realize that it rotated. It was here that I discovered licuado de frambuesa, a sort of raspberry smoothie.   I had mine made with water rather than milk, and indulged in them several days running (making up for not enough veggies), until the acid started affecting me.

My other excursion from Bariloche, a boat ride to a forest and to Isla Victoria was less successful, being mass tourism of the worst kind. Besides, I'd already seen a lot of the lake. Once again, all the announcements on the boat, aside from the safety briefing, were in Spanish, but one young guide did take the double handful of English speakers on our own guided walks. I was intrigued to learn that while most conifers are hermaphrodites, monkey puzzle trees are either female (large bushy cones), or male (very small cones). The guide thought the trees, Araucaria araucana, were called monkey trees, but I've always known them as monkey puzzle trees. They are much more impressive in their native habitat than in English gardens.

There's not a lot to see in Bariloche itself, aside from the self-consciously Alpine buildings round the main square. These date from the 1930s, when tourism was replacing agriculture as the foundation of the economy. The town was established in the 1890s, with a number of Austrian and German settlers, which may explain why some Nazi war criminals found sanctuary there. (Although I refuse to believe the fantasy that they included Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun.) I was not actually aware of this history when I planned to visit Bariloche, and have now found this article of interest: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-tourists.html

tower

fascinating artle, KW...I was in Barilcche in the spring (fall) of 1994...Priebke was arrested just a few weeks later. An old high school girlfriend of mine, lives in Sao Paulo but also has an elegant estate near Llao Llao (looks like she married real well after our teen age fling!)...she had told me about his presence and predicted that his expected arrest was imminent. She was right.
stu

tower

"article"...

avrooster

One of these days, maybe, just maybe, Stu will post a thread telling us all about his "teen age flings" and that kind of thing! LOL!!!

We are anxiously waiting!

Just kidding, in case someone wonders...

thursdaysd

<b>Status:</b> I made it home on Thursday, and am pretty much caught up. Will try to finish the blog before the end of the year....

<b>Nov 27-29, 2012: And More Lakes</b>

From Bariloche I was tempted to head south to El Bolson. The guidebooks
claimed that it made a good base for moderate hikes, and had an
excellent craft market. And that it was a hippy hangout. I was quite
surprised in Patagonia to run into several relics of the 60s, but they
weren't high on my sightseeing list. Also, if I went south I'd just
have to come back north to Bariloche. Since I saw few handicrafts of
interest in my time in South America, I'm glad I decided to skip El
Bolson. Instead I headed north for San Martin de Los Andes.

I could have taken one of several buses on the new, paved road via
Rinconada, but I was tempted by the scenic Seven Lakes route. While
one bus a day did go that way, I decided instead to sign up for a day
tour from Bariloche, getting off in San Martin. While noticeably more
expensive, this would get me much better sightseeing, plus photo ops.
Oddly, all tours from Bariloche cost the same, regardless of which
company you pick. With no good basis of comparison I left it to the
Hotel Tirol to book me, and was pleased with their choice. I shared a
small min-van with just a dozen others, although once again the guide
had little English.

We made a pit stop in Villa la Angostura, which seemed just as
touristy as Bariloche, and I was glad I had passed on staying there,
even though the ash from the 2011 volcano had been cleared. The lakes
were indeed scenic, and efforts were underway to pave the gravel road
that connected them. By this time I had seen so many lakes that I was
a little disappointed with San Martin's lake. Unlike Bariloche, which
sprawls along the shore of Lago Nahuel Huapi, San Martin is at the
very end of Lago Lacar, and most of the town follows the valley away
from the lake. There's a pier, and a couple of cafes, but not much
else on the lake shore itself.

My first full day in town I set off to hike to one of the viewpoints.
This was a little harder than I expected, as the trail, through the
edge of Parque Nacional Lanin, kept splitting, and was largely lacking
blazes. Still, since I had started early, I had the eventual
viewpoint, Bandurria, almost entirely to myself. I ate my lunch in
splendid isolation with a splendid view.

I had had a lot of luck with the weather on this trip, but I must have
lost the talisman on the hike to Bandurria. My second day in San
Martin was too wet for hiking, or for the boat ride I had planned, or
even for admiring the many rose bushes that decorated the streets and
parks. Fortunately, most of the cafes had wifi, and I carried my iPad
from coffee to lunch to more coffee, umbrella in hand.

Checking the weather forecast was not encouraging, though. Next day I
was taking a bus to Pucon, in Chile, and I had hoped to  see Volcan
Lanin on the border. Not to mention Volcan Villarica from Pucon itself.

owlwoman

Have really enjoyed reading your adventures...brought back some fond memories of Argentina. Thank you for taking the time to write.

crellston

Thursdaysd arrives home on a Thursday! Amazing planning! I have enjoyed reading about your trip and the photos on your blog. San Martin, Pucon and the seven lakes drive were a favourite for me. I can stil remember the amazing goat asado restaurants in SM! Shame the weather has not been working out in the area..

Huentetu

Surely Patagonian lamb, not goat! Did you eat at Posta Criolla restaurant?