We planned to go to Patagonia last November, but the trip was cancelled due to health reasons.

So, we will make another attempt in November, 2013. The tickets are booked, and we will have 14 days including arrival (in the morning) and departure (late at night) days.
We will fly into Santiago, and fly out of BA.

I am looking for your help on how to better plan the time we have.
Here is what I was thinking:
Day 1 – Arrive Santiago
Day 2 – Santiago or day trip to Valpariso (?)
Day 3 – Fly to Punta Arenas and take a bus to Puerto Natales (not sure here, maybe stay in Punta Arenas extra time to see penguins)
Day 4 - 5 – TdP
Day 6 – travel to El Calafate
Day 7-8 – El Calafate
Day 9 – Travel to IGU from El Calafate
Day 10- 11 – IGU
Day 12, 13, 14 - BA
Do you have any suggestions to improve the plan?
I am contemplating a couple of things.
First, possibly, we should stay in Punta Arenas one extra day to see penguins on Magdalena island.
Second, maybe we should skip Iguassu this time, and go to peninsula Valdez instead, since we will be relatively close. This way, we can see penguins in Punto Tombo.
When we planned our original trip, I asked the same question, and most responses suggested to include Iguassu, instead of Valdez. This is why I am leaning toward waterfalls option.

I am really looking forward to hearing all your opinions! Thank you in advance!

I can only address the Chile part of TdP and it's been 4 years (!) but here goes.

With such a short stay you might find it difficult to see what you want in TdP using public transportation. The busses run infrequently. Private transfers are expensive. You might want to look at one of the all inclusive programs such as at Las Torres hotel since they will do an airport pickup and a transfer to El Calafate as part of the package.

If you do chose the independent public transport route, be aware that when I went, you needed to physically go to the bus terminals to buy tickets. This was more of a problem for the Pta Arenas to Pta Natales transfer on the first day. I don't know how easy it is to just get on a bus at the airport, since I spent a night in Pta Arenas.

Bus schedule for Buses Fernandez (Pta Arenas to P. Natales)
http://www.busesfernandez.com/ There are two busses in the morning, and then the next one is at 1 pm. There were two other companies, and they had pretty much similar schedules.

From Natales to reach Torres del Paine I took one of the "seat in van tours" and then took the Las Torres shuttle bus to reach the Las Torres hotel.

Las Torres is also offering the transfers as an a la carte option
http://www.lastorres.com/services/transportation/

Fantastico Sur is the company that runs the Las Torres refugios which are less expensive than the hotel.

Mlgb,

Thank you for all this information!

We did not plan to use public transportation. I thought of taking full day tours, or use all inclusive program, or rent a car in Punta Arenas or Puerto Natales. I did not get to these details just yet. I just booked the tickets, and trying to figure out how to plan my time, prior to looking into details.
By your advice, I looked at Las Torres hotel to see the prices, and they do not have any rooms for the end November!
Do we need to book everything that far in advance (internal flights, hotels)??? I did not look at refugios yet.

I need to know the dates, so I can plan.

Send them an email, it may be that you are looking so far out that the room availability is not loaded.

You'll need to check and see if there is an option to rent a car in Chile and drop it off in Argentina!

If you are looking for all inclusive type packages there are also some options just outside the park in the Rio Serrano area.

Mlgb, you have a good point. It maybe too far out. I will research.

What do you think about staying in PA for extra day to try to see penguins on Magdalena? Is it worth it?

Actually, we saw the same type of penguins a few years back in South Africa. However, they did not have a large colony like on Magdalena.

I do not want to take a car to Argentina. I thought of renting it to use for TDP only, and then return in Puerto Natales, and go to El Calafate by bus. Supposedly, there is a convinient bus connection from Puerto Natales to El Calafate.

Or alternatevely, take a all inclusive program or all day tours, and then a bus to El Calafate.

I went to Seno Otway instead. Not a huge colony. One thing to consider is that heavy seas can cancel the boat to the island.

Sorry I haven't researched the transfer to Argentina but was under the impression that it can take a long time.

One of the commercial websites with info on the area (I don't have any recommendation on using this agency)
www.torres-del-paine.org/

Thank you, Mldb! I am still hesitating if I sholuld include Iguassu or Valdes into our plans. I am thinking I could leave out Iguassu, and go there sometime later when we decide to go to Brazil. I do not think, we will ever have another opportunity to go to Valdes. And if we decide to go there, then we can see penguins in Punta Tombo. Need to think about it...

I was not a huge fan of Santiago, much preferred Valpariaso.

We flew into PA, spent the night and took the bus from PA to PN. We did just as you describe for TdP - picked up a car in PN spent several days in TdP, drove back to PN and then took the bus to el Calafate -- it was all very smooth and easy to do.

I loved IF, but didn't do it on our trip to Chile and Patagonia. The falls are spectacular. I think your choice is whether you want to see penguins or waterfalls.

I agree that trying to book now online for Nov may not show any rooms available because it is too far out. Give the hotel a call or email as suggested.

For internal flights are you aware of SKy Airlines? Much cheaper than flying LAN. we had several flights on them and all were on time, comfortable and considerably less expensive than LAN. Also re buses - every bus we took was very comfortable. Most left on time.

I had no trouble having my hotel in Puerto Natales book me on a day tour of TdP when I arrived.

I traveled in the other direction, and took the bus from El Calafate to P. Natales. I booked my ticket a week ahead, when I first arrived in El Calafate, and the bus left full. We got through the border without problems, and in November you should be OK, although I was told it can take three hours in high season.

Click on my name for my TR. I didn't do Valdes so can't compare, but was very impressed with the waterfall.

Yestravel, Thursdaysd, Mlgb, thank you so much for your responses!
Last night, I re-read all your reports... Great reading! I wish we had more time to do some of these things.

I feel like I need to add another day to my Chilean part, because of all these transfer logistics.

I like Las Torres hotel location, and their transfer options are super convinient, but so expensive for non all inclusive guests!

They quote about $276 pp for transfer from PA, and $171 from hotel to El Calafate. And for their all inclusive program, they have several night minimum stay requiremens.

Yestravel, how easy is it to navigate in the park with your own car? Do they have good maps and explain main points?
I am afraid to miss out on the best views and wildlife without guid expertise.
Also regarding Puerto Natales to El Calafate transfer. I only found a bus that leaves Puerto Natales early in the morning. So, with that, a previous night should be spent in Puerto Natales (and not in the park).
Based on your TR, seems like this is what you had to do too...


Mlgb, what did you think about Las Torres hotel in general? Reviews are very mixed. Most of the people say it has a stunning location (and I am willing to pay for that), but service is not good. They are not very helpful, disorganized and problems with trip booking.

We had absolutely no trouble navigating TdP. As I recall there are not a lot of roads to get lost on. We had a map which showed lots of the main points. I'm sure we may have missed somethings, but that is always the case with or without a guide. If u read our TR, u should take note the of the info on the gas situation. Depending upon the size of your car and how much driving you do in TdP, running out of gas MAY be an issue. We were concerned and did get the gas in TdP, but have friends who had no trouble going up and back, traveling around the park in a small car. I think the views are not that difficult to find. We are not really into seeking out wildlife, but I would think that would require a guide.

TdP is very expensive. Take as much food as you can to have to eat. Food was not great and pricey.

Correct, we did spend a nite back in PN before taking the bus. Don't recall what the bus schedules were.

I liked Las Torres hotel. Bear in mind that you are overpaying for location. It's sort of like staying in a National Park lodge. I didn't have any problems with the staff. I was not on the all inclusive, I had allocated more time to TdP so had time to take the busses.

If you are okay with driving, that is a good option, although I have heard the same about the gas.

The main road along the south of the park can be done in a day tour from Puerto Natales. If you are not hiking, you might consider staying outside of the park.

Yestravel, mlgb, thank you again!

Yestravel, should we be looking at jeep type of car or a regular car OK? This gas situation does not make any sense, or maybe it is done on purpose to sell very expensive gas. So, the closest gas station is in Puerto Natale, right?
There is no gas even right outside of the park?
By the way, a separate Thank you for a tip about Sky airline.

Mlgb, we wanted to do short hikes - park a car, and do a short or light hikes. Something similar as we did here in US in Utah parks (an hour or two, scenic, but not too strenous) Not sure if these types of hikes are available in TdP

We did hike and we stayed outside the park. If you have a car it's not a problem. Our hotel was less $$ and it took maybe ten minutes or less to get to the park. The hikes we did were moderate and not terribly strenuous. I hurt my knee in Valparaiso so was being very careful with the hiking.

The area is rather remote so no gas stations is really not surprising. We didn't really think about it and suddenly realized that, gee are we going to make it back to PN on this tank of gas? We also did a lot of exploring within the park checking it all out. We may have made it okay, but didn't want to take a chance. I recommend getting a small car which would conserve gas. We got what they had.
No need for a jeep or four wheel drive. rosds r fine. You need to book your car well in advance as there r not a huge number of cars in PN. We ended up with a mid size which contributed to our gas situation. On the route we took there were no gas stations, but there are two routes from PN to TdP.

Yestravel, this is perfect, thank you again...

And one more question. I know I ask way too many questions!

Since it take so long to get to TdP, I feel like two days there is way too rushed. So, I want to add one more day to my PN/TdP part. With that, I need to cut out one day either from BA or from El Calafate.

I allocted two days for El Calafate - to see Perito Moreno and take a boat to Upsala.
And I am not sure here. Is one day enough?

We will not be going to El Chalten.

One the other hand, Patagonia is once in lifetime trip, so not sure if I should cut here.

I think I did not word my question about El Calafate properly. I meant to ask if staying in El Calafate another day for Upsala worth it...

Yes, staying in El Calafate for the second day ifor Upsala is absolutely worth it.

Thank you, Thursdaysd!!! Then I will have to cut from BA.

I hope there will be another time for BA.

I agree, it is expensive to get down there so allocate days there.

There are some short hikes that you can do, one is to the Glacier Grey Mirador, but you can only hike along the gravel spit when the wind is not blowing,..which is most of the time. You can walk to the waterfall Salta Grande. You can take the catamaran across the lake at Pudeto (I probably would just take the same boat back, the hiking in the immediate vicinity of the Lodge isn't great). I would enter the park to stop first at the visitor center at Laguna Amarga. They may be able to suggest some other shorter walks. Around Lago Sarmiento you can see lots of guanaco.

If you are not going to hike to the Towers (which is a full day), then it makes less sense to stay at Las Torres (which requires you to drive on a rutted road over a narrow bridge!)

I did a full day tour to TdP out of P. Natales, both north and south sides. Although I am very reluctant to take tours, especially on big buses, this one actually worked out well. The only hiking was on the gravel spit mentioned by mlgb (windy but doable), but I felt that I got to see everything I wanted to (I didn't need to see Glacier Grey up close, having seen glaciers out of El Calafate). Of course, I was lucky with the weather - the guide said you can only see the towers about 60 days a year, and I had a beautiful clear, sunny day.