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Princess Cruise line cancels Puerto Vallarta port stops ...

Princess Cruise line cancels Puerto Vallarta port stops ...

Old Jun 22nd, 2011, 12:59 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 93,713
<which is what others were saying.>

Well if you are talking about me, I already *tried* to explain. My "NONE" was in reply to safety concerns relating to drug cartel violence in Mexico. Sure things happen. but more people die from drowning and traffic accidents than from homicide in Vallarta.

Sorry but you're trying to make this sound worse than it is. And yes more people are shot, stabbed, and otherwise killed in my neighborhood of Seattle than the 9.5 homicides (half of 19) you are quoting shared in PV & Mazatlan 9.5 divided by 2 again) being less than 5 people per year.
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Old Jun 23rd, 2011, 08:57 AM
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And yes more people are shot, stabbed, and otherwise killed in my neighborhood of Seattle than the 9.5 homicides (half of 19) you are quoting shared in PV & Mazatlan

Suze, how many of those people killed in your neighborhood were tourists? I'll bet very few, if any. When I googled 'seattle tourist murder homicide' I got some hits for tourist FROM Seattle being murdered elsewhere but didn't see anything on the first couple of pages of tourists to Seattle getting knocked off.

If you want to make a meaningful comparison then compare the homicide rate of tourists visiting in the US vs tourists visiting Mexico, since you are apparently trying to make the point that it's not dangerous down there compared to the US (if you compare all homicides, tourist and locals, then clearly Mexico loses that due to all the drug violence).

Possibly you could find areas in the US with high base crime rates and a lot of tourism and one or more of them might have a higher rate than Vallarta.

For example I thought of Florida back in the 1990's when the cocaine trafficking in south Florida was big and some European tourists were killed in well-publicized car-jackings and robberies. Here were some stats that popped up on the first page:

One year in early 1990's (when violence was near-peak) Florida had 9 tourists killed, with 41 million visitors.

How does that compare to Puerto Vallarta during the 8 years of the State Dept info? Figure maybe 2 million US tourists a year, so 16 million tourists, and 6 homicides of US citizens (not broken down into tourists vs ex-pats but at least 3 were clearly tourists).

So 9 of 41 million for one of the worst periods in US vs 6 in 15 million for Vallarta.

You might try to get data on New Orleans and compare, lots of tourists there, many drinking and partying too much so easy targets, and a pretty high crime rate after Katrina ...

Forget the statistics they are not reliable, listen to people who actually live here

Cabron, the people who live there and depend on tourism for their livelihood are every bit as reliable as the co-worker who shows you a photo of his 9 year old daughter and assures you she's the cutest, smartest 4th grader in all of Scottsdale.
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Old Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:32 AM
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I've got no dog in this fight, Bill_H. So don't go to Mexico if you think it's so dangerous for tourists there. Personally I will continue to vacation annually, and hopefully live someday, in Puerto Vallarta.
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Old Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:56 AM
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It's certainly Princess' call if they choose to skip the port, but the additional info provided by Bill_H isn't enough to convince this tourist to stay out of PV.........
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Old Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:12 AM
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No the shootings in Seattle were not tourists. But I am not a tourist when I am in Seattle, I live here. The *point* I was making is that I have LESS likelyhood of getting shot in PV as a tourist than at home in my own neighborhood as a resident.
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Old Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:39 AM
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Bill_H where do you live,? I live in Puerto Vallarta and have for 18 years, who knows the situation better, you or me ?
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Old Jun 30th, 2011, 11:14 AM
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For a true picture of what tourists and residents of Puerto Vallarta think about "violence" in that 325,000 population port-city, I invite all to visit:

Read the comments, and, if you are so inclined, join the campaign, by all means!

There is crime in Mexico, yes. Murders are committed in the country, of course. Just as there is crime, and murders are committed, everywhere on Earth, unfortunately.

The sustained attack on Mexico’s image, mostly by the US and Mexican media, is unprecedented in terms of its scope and distortion of the facts. The allegations of wide-spread violence in Mexico are inflammatory and baseless.

When viewed in the proper context, 99% of Mexico is safer than 99% of the United States.

There were 34,162 murders between 2006 and 2010, mostly drug related, in Mexico according to the Calderon administration. It is important to note that Law enforcement in Mexico rushes to label most crimes as “drug related” to bolster the perception that the country is in total disarray --largely to allow more US intervention in domestic affairs via the Merida Plan and secret dealings between Calderón's administration and the US, part of his “Mexico 2030 Plan, a Grand Vision Project”.

More than 95% of these murders were committed in Ciudad Juárez and 84 more municipalities in the states of Chihuahua, Sinaloa, Tamaulipas and Guerrero. 44% of all in the state of Chihuahua alone.

85 municipalities, in three states, have a serious murder problem. The rest of Mexico’s 2,500 municipalities and its remaining 28 states are, bluntly, safer than most places in the United States.

The greater Mexico City metropolitan area would appear to be an exception; however, considering that it has over 20 million population and an average 191 murders a year, crime per capita is still lower than in the 20 most dangerous cities in the US.

Yes, violence is horrific in less than 1% of Mexico's 761,606 square miles. That less than 1% has a much higher murder rate per capita than almost everywhere else in the world; but that less than 1% is far, far away from Puerto Vallarta.

The widely publicized assassination of a full-time resident of Puerto Vallarta, who happened to be Canadian, while painful to his family and very regrettable, had absolutely nothing to do with the literally hundreds of thousands of tourists who visit Puerto Vallarta every year or, even, with the tens of thousands expats who call Puerto Vallarta home. The victim opened his door, wearing only his boxer shorts --when his wife was not home--, to the perpetrator or perpetrators; it is clear that this was not a random act of violence. According to all who knew the victim, he was an extraordinarily cautious man who never opened his door before verifying the identity of the caller via interphone and would have never opened his door, almost naked, to anyone other than a very close acquaintance.

To contrast these figures, the FBI reported 65,642 murders committed in the United States between 2006 and 2009, and their preliminary data for 2010 indicates that 14,570 murders were committed in the US in 2010. A total of 80,212 murders committed in the United States between 2006 and 2010; 34,162 in Mexico, with over 95% of those committed in Mexico in 85 of it 2,500 municipalities.

A clear example of this bias is the media attention to Princess Cruise Lines (PCL) libelous press release announcing the cancellation of three port visits to Puerto Vallarta alleging that the “continued violence” in that port-city forced them to do so, falsely stating that a US Department of State Travel Warning and their internal security said so.

Puerto Vallarta has never been labeled by the US Department of State as unsafe, not even remotely. Puerto Vallarta has much lower criminality than Long Beach, CA --PCL’s headquarters--, Bermuda, Bahamas, Jamaica and ALL other destinations visited by Princess Cruise Lines. Comparing apples to apples, Puerto Vallarta is much safer than Myrtle Beach, SC --the 14th. mosts dangerous city in the US, according to the FBI--, or Saskatoon, AB --the most dangerous place in Canada, per RCMP statistics--. Both cities with approximately the same population as Puerto Vallarta, Myrtle Beach with less tourism.

Not surprisingly, Carnival Cruises --PCL’s owner-- continues sailing to Puerto Vallarta, together with Holland America, Royal Caribbean and Disney Cruises. PCL itself will do so through November 2011 and again in 2012; PCL canceled only THREE port visits scheduled for November and December, 2011.

Again, those so inclined are urged to join the campaign to demand that Princess Cruise Lines stops slandering the safety of Puerto Vallarta:

Puerto Vallarta, and 99% of Mexico, is much safer than 99% of the United States. Enough lies!
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