Extortionate Internal Airfares in Argentina
Nov 11th, 2008, 04:25 AM
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Extortionate Internal Airfares in Argentina
We are halfway through a three month stay in Argentina and have travelled mostly by bus which, BTW are very efficient and comfortable. Due to poor planning on my part we decided to visit El Calafate by return flight from BA.
I checked online on the Lan Argentina site and got two flights for 890 pesos pp. When I went to pay for the flights at the Lan office in Salta, I was informed that flights I had reserved were for Argentine residents only and the "foreigner" price was in fact 2400 pesos i.e. and increase of almost 300%. It seems that the airlines are out to milk the foreign tourist as much as possible. We will not now be visiting El Calafate and the hotels and restaurants will not benefits from our tourist dollars which is a shame for them. The airlines will also lose out as we will not be travelling with them.
The authorities really need to address this issue if the Argentine economy is to continue its recovery which, in part has been led by the growth in tourism.
Rant over and I feel better for getting that off my chest!!
I checked online on the Lan Argentina site and got two flights for 890 pesos pp. When I went to pay for the flights at the Lan office in Salta, I was informed that flights I had reserved were for Argentine residents only and the "foreigner" price was in fact 2400 pesos i.e. and increase of almost 300%. It seems that the airlines are out to milk the foreign tourist as much as possible. We will not now be visiting El Calafate and the hotels and restaurants will not benefits from our tourist dollars which is a shame for them. The airlines will also lose out as we will not be travelling with them.
The authorities really need to address this issue if the Argentine economy is to continue its recovery which, in part has been led by the growth in tourism.
Rant over and I feel better for getting that off my chest!!
Nov 11th, 2008, 09:01 AM
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I do not wish to respond with a political reply. But in a simple way let me say this, Argentina has some kind of socialist economy, you know a super regulating Government, so airline tickets for Argentineans are manipulated by the Government, at first sight the discrepancy between prices for locals and foreigners is obnoxious. I understand your feelings but I do not know if you are aware that prices for the Argentine are not real. They are manipulate by a Government that has a lot of power. So the good comes with the bad.
When you take the subway in Buenos Aires and the ticket is ridiculous inexpensive that is possible because of the meddling of the Government in the case of the Airlines they are not t milking the tourists but making them pay real prices.
When you take the subway in Buenos Aires and the ticket is ridiculous inexpensive that is possible because of the meddling of the Government in the case of the Airlines they are not t milking the tourists but making them pay real prices.
Nov 11th, 2008, 10:36 AM
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This is the LAN international website:
http://www.lan.com/country_selector.html
When you enter, you are supposed to indicate what country you are from.
If you pose as an Argentina resident and you are not, one of the things that can happen is that you are asked to pay the difference when you board the plane. You could also miss your flight.
We have dealt with this subject frequently and my advice always has been: "don't try it".
http://www.lan.com/country_selector.html
When you enter, you are supposed to indicate what country you are from.
If you pose as an Argentina resident and you are not, one of the things that can happen is that you are asked to pay the difference when you board the plane. You could also miss your flight.
We have dealt with this subject frequently and my advice always has been: "don't try it".
Nov 11th, 2008, 07:29 PM
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lots of countries have dual pricing, but some of these prices like what you have posted here clive are outrageous.....i find flight prices outrageous in argentina in general...wait till ryan air arrives!!!
clive, will your B&B have dual pricing? perhaps you could charge argentines 3X the price for a tourist??
clive, will your B&B have dual pricing? perhaps you could charge argentines 3X the price for a tourist??
Nov 12th, 2008, 11:54 AM
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Hi guys, I tried, apparently in vain, to explain that in my opinion it is not that the Argentine operators have the crazy idea of charging one price to locals and rip off the tourist.
I think that I tried in in vain because I venture to say that most Americans to not have yet any idea of how a socialistic government works.
In the case of Argentina, I believe that operators are force to reduce rates period. Planes buses, the metro, the colectivos, the taxis,... etc. are regulated by the government. Did you ever stop to think why there are bargains so any in this country?
Why a bus ride from on city to the other is so cheap?
Obviously taxis, local buses charge what they are told to charge and cannot discriminate if the passenger is Argentine or foreign. But in some cases like airliners it is possible....so there you have it.
I do not think they wish to charge outrageous prices and discriminate
they simply are allowed to charge real prices. Can you see the difference...?Have you ever heard of smaller governments...well in Argentina it is not small.
I think that I tried in in vain because I venture to say that most Americans to not have yet any idea of how a socialistic government works.
In the case of Argentina, I believe that operators are force to reduce rates period. Planes buses, the metro, the colectivos, the taxis,... etc. are regulated by the government. Did you ever stop to think why there are bargains so any in this country?
Why a bus ride from on city to the other is so cheap?
Obviously taxis, local buses charge what they are told to charge and cannot discriminate if the passenger is Argentine or foreign. But in some cases like airliners it is possible....so there you have it.
I do not think they wish to charge outrageous prices and discriminate
they simply are allowed to charge real prices. Can you see the difference...?Have you ever heard of smaller governments...well in Argentina it is not small.
Nov 12th, 2008, 04:18 PM
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Graziella,
The airline prices in Argentina are not "real" prices. They are gouges for the tourist. In North America nobody is required to pay those airfares relative to the distances covered.
Similarly, when I use an Argentinian hotel website I see one price, and then when I try to book, the return email requires an almost 100% increase in the advertised rate.
Interesting.
The airline prices in Argentina are not "real" prices. They are gouges for the tourist. In North America nobody is required to pay those airfares relative to the distances covered.
Similarly, when I use an Argentinian hotel website I see one price, and then when I try to book, the return email requires an almost 100% increase in the advertised rate.
Interesting.
Nov 12th, 2008, 05:25 PM
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I know this is difficult for people who are used to an unregulated economy to understand, but I'll try to explain, by putting the shoe on the other foot.
Imagine Bush told all airlines that US citizens can be charged only 30% of the normal fare, but it's OK for foreign tourists to be charged the full fare.
What do you think the airlines would do? Charge everybody only 30% of the normal fare? NO WAY!!!!
And would you call it "gouges for the tourist"???????????? NO WAY!!!
The LAN website mentions "artículo 4 de la Resolución 35/2002 de la Secretaría de Transporte".
Hope this helps to understand the situation.
BTW, in no decent hotel "the return email requires an almost 100% increase in the advertised rate."
Have a great time in our country.
Imagine Bush told all airlines that US citizens can be charged only 30% of the normal fare, but it's OK for foreign tourists to be charged the full fare.
What do you think the airlines would do? Charge everybody only 30% of the normal fare? NO WAY!!!!
And would you call it "gouges for the tourist"???????????? NO WAY!!!
The LAN website mentions "artículo 4 de la Resolución 35/2002 de la Secretaría de Transporte".
Hope this helps to understand the situation.
BTW, in no decent hotel "the return email requires an almost 100% increase in the advertised rate."
Have a great time in our country.
Nov 12th, 2008, 06:40 PM
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I am relieved that avrooster sees things as I do, which by the way is the truth.
jtrandolph, of course the tickets are expensive is you consider mile per mile, but that responds mainly to the market. You cannot compare the US airliners market in size and competition with the Argentine market, on top Argentina has the problem of an economy regulated by the government as it has been mentioned before.
.
jtrandolph, of course the tickets are expensive is you consider mile per mile, but that responds mainly to the market. You cannot compare the US airliners market in size and competition with the Argentine market, on top Argentina has the problem of an economy regulated by the government as it has been mentioned before.
.
Nov 13th, 2008, 02:08 AM
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Ever wish you had never posted something?
Firstly, I am English not American. Secondly, having studied economics for many years and read from cover to cover both Das Capital (Karl Marx) and Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, I fully comprehend the differences between free market and centrally controlled economies and can see the advantages and disadvantages of both - unfortunately, these have only too well been demonstrated in recent months by the global banking crisis.
My original post was not intended to be political in any way, it was more to point out the inequity of the pricing system.
Thank you to avrooster and graziella for providing an insight into the workings of the system - that has really helped me to understand the position. Unfortunately my poor but improving Spanish is not yet of a sufficient standard to read up on "artículo 4 de la Resolución 35/2002 de la Secretaría de Transporte' - I will try to get around to it one day!!!
If I understand correctly, the intention seems to be to limit prices for Argentines however, the resultant efffect of this seems to be to allow the airlines to overcharge foreigners. My main point is that whilst this may seem to be good for the population in general in the longer term it will make air travel within this vast country prohibitively expensive for many and will thus reduce the amount of foreign exchange being spent particularly around the country (outside of BA). Anyway that is just my opinion. Hey! I live in London where we charge everyone the same price and any sort of travel is hugely expensive!!!
Bob. I note your point re my charging Argentine tourist 3x the price in noted but I would rather like to stay in business for more than a few months! You are quite right about Ryannair, The man has shaken up air travel in Europe we flew from London Luton to Marseille for 10p - some deal!
avrooster - myabe we can continue this discussion over a beer or two when we arrrive in BA? PS I AM having the most amazing time in your country - we have just driven a circuit around Salta based on Flintstones suggestions - absolutely beautiful - will post a full report soon.
Firstly, I am English not American. Secondly, having studied economics for many years and read from cover to cover both Das Capital (Karl Marx) and Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, I fully comprehend the differences between free market and centrally controlled economies and can see the advantages and disadvantages of both - unfortunately, these have only too well been demonstrated in recent months by the global banking crisis.
My original post was not intended to be political in any way, it was more to point out the inequity of the pricing system.
Thank you to avrooster and graziella for providing an insight into the workings of the system - that has really helped me to understand the position. Unfortunately my poor but improving Spanish is not yet of a sufficient standard to read up on "artículo 4 de la Resolución 35/2002 de la Secretaría de Transporte' - I will try to get around to it one day!!!
If I understand correctly, the intention seems to be to limit prices for Argentines however, the resultant efffect of this seems to be to allow the airlines to overcharge foreigners. My main point is that whilst this may seem to be good for the population in general in the longer term it will make air travel within this vast country prohibitively expensive for many and will thus reduce the amount of foreign exchange being spent particularly around the country (outside of BA). Anyway that is just my opinion. Hey! I live in London where we charge everyone the same price and any sort of travel is hugely expensive!!!
Bob. I note your point re my charging Argentine tourist 3x the price in noted but I would rather like to stay in business for more than a few months! You are quite right about Ryannair, The man has shaken up air travel in Europe we flew from London Luton to Marseille for 10p - some deal!
avrooster - myabe we can continue this discussion over a beer or two when we arrrive in BA? PS I AM having the most amazing time in your country - we have just driven a circuit around Salta based on Flintstones suggestions - absolutely beautiful - will post a full report soon.
Nov 13th, 2008, 02:26 AM
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My apologies for assuming most foreign posters in this forum are American, unless I know it is not so.
I have no idea what the "artículo 4 de la Resolución 35/2002 de la Secretaría de Transporte" says exactly, but I DO know it is some kind of executive order telling the airlines to act in just about the way I described, or else....
While I fully agree with your "whilst this may seem to be good for the population in general in the longer term it will make air travel within this vast country prohibitively expensive for many and will thus reduce the amount of foreign exchange being spent particularly around the country (outside of BA).", there is nothing we can do about it, except trying to kick them out in the next elections.
About Ryannair, I'd love to see them try to operate here! LOL!!!
I don't drink, Crellston and I'm having a knee operation in a couple of days, but let's keep in touch and we'll see in what shape I am when you arrive in BA.
I'm sure all forum readers are looking forward to your trip report.
Go on having a great time in our country during the rest of your trip, Crellston.
I have no idea what the "artículo 4 de la Resolución 35/2002 de la Secretaría de Transporte" says exactly, but I DO know it is some kind of executive order telling the airlines to act in just about the way I described, or else....
While I fully agree with your "whilst this may seem to be good for the population in general in the longer term it will make air travel within this vast country prohibitively expensive for many and will thus reduce the amount of foreign exchange being spent particularly around the country (outside of BA).", there is nothing we can do about it, except trying to kick them out in the next elections.
About Ryannair, I'd love to see them try to operate here! LOL!!!
I don't drink, Crellston and I'm having a knee operation in a couple of days, but let's keep in touch and we'll see in what shape I am when you arrive in BA.
I'm sure all forum readers are looking forward to your trip report.
Go on having a great time in our country during the rest of your trip, Crellston.
Nov 13th, 2008, 03:00 PM
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Crellston
I can understand your being put-off by some of the previous assumptions and wish you had ranted elsewhere. I AM an American and I still get ruffled about the feathers when someone assumes that I am. That defense mechanism comes from years and years of people assuming they know me simply because of my nationality. Comments like "most Americans do not have yet any idea of how a socialistic government works" make me, initially, want to scream and make known my education.
Even back in college my peers and I were dealing with this. Our Canadian friends openly admitted that they grews up thinking of Americans as "gun toting yokels". One such friend would even swear up and down, angrily defensive, that he too was an American; simply relating the fact that since he resides in North America he too must be considered American. I told him that I would bet my life on the fact that if he was ever on a plane where men with guns were demanding to see all the Americans, that he would vehemently deny being such.
Of course, I too have these preconceived notions for which I, on occasion, am ashamed. I will speak in loud rants to my friends over my disdain for these illegal aliens (mostly Mexicans, right?) and the way they come over here and DEMAND things like welfare and healthcare. Things for which I pay, and not them. Ranting angrily over a system that would turn it's head at this problem and cost me even more as each year passes.
Then I meet one of the greatest people I have ever known on the planet Earth. He lives next door to me. He is of Peruvian descent and came here illegally. He is nothing like my preconceived model. He demands absolutely nothing, and yet he could willingly get anything he needed from me in a heartbeat.
It's all humanity. Which, by no coincidence, rhymes with insanity.
I can understand your being put-off by some of the previous assumptions and wish you had ranted elsewhere. I AM an American and I still get ruffled about the feathers when someone assumes that I am. That defense mechanism comes from years and years of people assuming they know me simply because of my nationality. Comments like "most Americans do not have yet any idea of how a socialistic government works" make me, initially, want to scream and make known my education.
Even back in college my peers and I were dealing with this. Our Canadian friends openly admitted that they grews up thinking of Americans as "gun toting yokels". One such friend would even swear up and down, angrily defensive, that he too was an American; simply relating the fact that since he resides in North America he too must be considered American. I told him that I would bet my life on the fact that if he was ever on a plane where men with guns were demanding to see all the Americans, that he would vehemently deny being such.
Of course, I too have these preconceived notions for which I, on occasion, am ashamed. I will speak in loud rants to my friends over my disdain for these illegal aliens (mostly Mexicans, right?) and the way they come over here and DEMAND things like welfare and healthcare. Things for which I pay, and not them. Ranting angrily over a system that would turn it's head at this problem and cost me even more as each year passes.
Then I meet one of the greatest people I have ever known on the planet Earth. He lives next door to me. He is of Peruvian descent and came here illegally. He is nothing like my preconceived model. He demands absolutely nothing, and yet he could willingly get anything he needed from me in a heartbeat.
It's all humanity. Which, by no coincidence, rhymes with insanity.
Nov 14th, 2008, 12:36 AM
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Hi, Todd!
I call US citizens "Americans" because it is simpler that way, but the fact is that all the people who live in the Americas are Americans, which includes you, your Canadian friends, your Peruvian friend and even yours truly.
I fully agree with Graziella's "most Americans do not have yet any idea of how a socialistic government works".
You are just an exception to the rule. LOL!!!
I call US citizens "Americans" because it is simpler that way, but the fact is that all the people who live in the Americas are Americans, which includes you, your Canadian friends, your Peruvian friend and even yours truly.
I fully agree with Graziella's "most Americans do not have yet any idea of how a socialistic government works".
You are just an exception to the rule. LOL!!!
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