Young Couple, 2 week Europe trip
#21
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 25,751
Likes: 0
For a first time trip to Europe, I would normally recommend renting a car for at least three days to get out into the countryside, which is an important part of the glory of Europe: village life and landscapes and traditional food which is at the core of understanding any cuisine.
#22
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
" That said, I would disagree that getting into the country necessarily requires a car -- IME, there are many parts of Europe in which public transportation is so easy and convenient than no car is necessary."
I second that and should anyone have doubts I'm ready for the challange to prove it.
" If you want to focus on food I agree to forget Amsterdam (full of history and museums btw). Forget Germany too (unless you consider schnitzels and bretzels as gastronomy). Forget UK Romania Hungary etc."
Sorry, but this is kind of insulting to the gastronomy of these countries. There are now a total of 311 Michelin stars between 255 German restaurants.
https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-867191.html
I second that and should anyone have doubts I'm ready for the challange to prove it.
" If you want to focus on food I agree to forget Amsterdam (full of history and museums btw). Forget Germany too (unless you consider schnitzels and bretzels as gastronomy). Forget UK Romania Hungary etc."
Sorry, but this is kind of insulting to the gastronomy of these countries. There are now a total of 311 Michelin stars between 255 German restaurants.
https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-867191.html
#23

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
" That said, I would disagree that getting into the country necessarily requires a car -- IME, there are many parts of Europe in which public transportation is so easy and convenient than no car is necessary."
I second that and should anyone have doubts I'm ready for the challange to prove it.
I second that and should anyone have doubts I'm ready for the challange to prove it.
#24

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
" That said, I would disagree that getting into the country necessarily requires a car -- IME, there are many parts of Europe in which public transportation is so easy and convenient than no car is necessary."
I second that and should anyone have doubts I'm ready for the challange to prove it.
" If you want to focus on food I agree to forget Amsterdam (full of history and museums btw). Forget Germany too (unless you consider schnitzels and bretzels as gastronomy). Forget UK Romania Hungary etc."
Sorry, but this is kind of insulting to the gastronomy of these countries. There are now a total of 311 Michelin stars between 255 German restaurants.
https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-867191.html
I second that and should anyone have doubts I'm ready for the challange to prove it.
" If you want to focus on food I agree to forget Amsterdam (full of history and museums btw). Forget Germany too (unless you consider schnitzels and bretzels as gastronomy). Forget UK Romania Hungary etc."
Sorry, but this is kind of insulting to the gastronomy of these countries. There are now a total of 311 Michelin stars between 255 German restaurants.
https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-867191.html
#25

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 0
There are so many striking landscapes to enjoy in Europe. One automatically thinks of the mountains of Switzerland, The lakes of Italy, and the Amalfi Coast, but also look at:
Plitvice Lakes National Park in Croatia, and Berchesgaden National Park and Saxony area of Germany.
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/germany/articles/the-top-10-things-to-see-and-do-in-saxony-germany.
Completely not on your radar at this time, but look at Istanbul and Cappadocia, Turkey for amazing food and an other world landscape.
Plitvice Lakes National Park in Croatia, and Berchesgaden National Park and Saxony area of Germany.
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/germany/articles/the-top-10-things-to-see-and-do-in-saxony-germany.
Completely not on your radar at this time, but look at Istanbul and Cappadocia, Turkey for amazing food and an other world landscape.
#26
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
" It is possible to get out into the countryside without a car, though try getting to a trailhead."
There are hundreds if not thousands of trailheads starting near train stations and I'll give you a few nice exemples when I'll have more time.
I never meant of course that you can get to every village or trailhead by train. By the way, getting to the Grottes de Cale looks easy, it's only a short walk from Lamanon station, while Vernegues looks impossible to reach by public transit.
My point is, that you don't need a car to easily get to amazing places in the countryside, be that a village, a small town, a monastery, a castle, a lake, a waterfall, a cave, a peak, etc.
There are thousands of places like that all over Europe, enough to last a lifetime of travel.
And to be honest, there are a lot more which can't be reached by train or bus, where you really need your own transport.
There are hundreds if not thousands of trailheads starting near train stations and I'll give you a few nice exemples when I'll have more time.
I never meant of course that you can get to every village or trailhead by train. By the way, getting to the Grottes de Cale looks easy, it's only a short walk from Lamanon station, while Vernegues looks impossible to reach by public transit.
My point is, that you don't need a car to easily get to amazing places in the countryside, be that a village, a small town, a monastery, a castle, a lake, a waterfall, a cave, a peak, etc.
There are thousands of places like that all over Europe, enough to last a lifetime of travel.
And to be honest, there are a lot more which can't be reached by train or bus, where you really need your own transport.
#28



Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 30,823
Likes: 4
Trailhead....
Large parts of Europe have thousands of miles of public paths if not whole countries open to walking.
Trailheads make a lot of sense in USA, but this side of the pond you need different thinking and language. For instance ordinance survey, Google it, IDs the walks in the UK many of which pass by stations.
Large parts of Europe have thousands of miles of public paths if not whole countries open to walking.
Trailheads make a lot of sense in USA, but this side of the pond you need different thinking and language. For instance ordinance survey, Google it, IDs the walks in the UK many of which pass by stations.
#29
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
I didn't see any mention of Spain, which I highly recommend, and the weather will be lovely in October. San Sebastian and Barcelona are foodie heaven, especially the former which also has a lovely beach. You will experience Basque culture, and can even go across into French Basque country for a day or two. Barcelona has great food, culture, music, and Catalan culture. We're leaving soon for our 3rd trip to northern Spain.
#30
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
It depends entirely on what you are interested in but from your description I think you could honestly spend two full weeks in Italy. Start in Venice or Milan and make your way down through Bologna, Florence, Tuscany and Rome allocating days to whichever suit your fancy and trying all of the different variations of Italian food. If you're aiming to really get two countries in I would choose two cities, one in each country, and explore the city and the vicinity around it for a week each.
#31

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
ndabski, in a rush today so couldn't see all the previous posts...but I did see a lot of "see 1 or 2 things" type comments above. It depends on how YOU like to travel. Seeing 1 or 2 cities in 2 weeks would not be my style. Most of the people posting above have been to Europe many times. At the start you mentioned a lot of the big cities of Europe. I've done two trips that I think worked well and would give you a great intro to Europe (cities and beautiful mountain scenery). Fly into (or out of) London, Paris, Alps, Venice, Rome. Yes...that's 5 stops in 2 weeks. I've done that exact trip twice (once pre kids and once with 8/10 year old kids in tow) and loved it each time. The Venice addition does depend on how you count 2 weeks. But I think the following works:
I'm cheating and figuring you work the day you leave, if not then it adds one more day
1 arrive London mid day, see London sleepily
2 London
3 London (evening train to Paris)
4 Paris
5 Paris
6 Paris
7 train to Alps
8 Lauterbrunnen
9 Lauterbrunnen
10 train to Venice
11 Venice (train to Rome)
12 Rome
13 Rome
14 Rome
15 fly home
OK...that's 15 days. If you can't swing 15 then drop Venice. Then you've got plenty of time to see London, Paris, Alps and Rome. Once again, look carefully at each day, give adequate time for travel time and then figure out if the trip is doable, or if you need to drop one more thing.
I'm cheating and figuring you work the day you leave, if not then it adds one more day
1 arrive London mid day, see London sleepily
2 London
3 London (evening train to Paris)
4 Paris
5 Paris
6 Paris
7 train to Alps
8 Lauterbrunnen
9 Lauterbrunnen
10 train to Venice
11 Venice (train to Rome)
12 Rome
13 Rome
14 Rome
15 fly home
OK...that's 15 days. If you can't swing 15 then drop Venice. Then you've got plenty of time to see London, Paris, Alps and Rome. Once again, look carefully at each day, give adequate time for travel time and then figure out if the trip is doable, or if you need to drop one more thing.
#32

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
I didn't see any mention of Spain, which I highly recommend, and the weather will be lovely in October. San Sebastian and Barcelona are foodie heaven, especially the former which also has a lovely beach. You will experience Basque culture, and can even go across into French Basque country for a day or two. Barcelona has great food, culture, music, and Catalan culture. We're leaving soon for our 3rd trip to northern Spain.
Given the OP, I caution against London and Paris. Great cities, but not good choices for the stated preferences.
#33
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
More to Paris than history etc
Cant miss Paris. There is more to Paris than history and art.. Nightlife has exploded and tons of cool hipster bars, cafes gyms etc.....food is definitely much better value and better quality than most 'Western' cities. London is really come up but not good value. Only other city with good food (that is actually French influenced) is Barcelona. In Paris you can have a 3 course French meal in paris for 30 euros. Same thing in NYC would be well over $100. Many things in Paris are sort of hidden or hard to find i.e. not online but you can do some unique things like visit the Catacombs...its well worth a few days at least to explore... and a good base (next to London it has 2nd best connectivity).
If more outdoors Id head to alps or pyranee mountains (the later being much cheaper and under rated). I also think Slovenia is a cool place to hike although not sure about food and acommodation. French/Swiss/Austrian alps offer plenty of options. Central France has some cool outdoors spots as does Norway Poland and Spain.
If more outdoors Id head to alps or pyranee mountains (the later being much cheaper and under rated). I also think Slovenia is a cool place to hike although not sure about food and acommodation. French/Swiss/Austrian alps offer plenty of options. Central France has some cool outdoors spots as does Norway Poland and Spain.
Last edited by touringtimothy; Sep 12th, 2019 at 12:08 PM. Reason: update
#34

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,942
Likes: 0
" That said, I would disagree that getting into the country necessarily requires a car -- IME, there are many parts of Europe in which public transportation is so easy and convenient than no car is necessary."
I second that and should anyone have doubts I'm ready for the challange to prove it.
" If you want to focus on food I agree to forget Amsterdam (full of history and museums btw). Forget Germany too (unless you consider schnitzels and bretzels as gastronomy). Forget UK Romania Hungary etc."
Sorry, but this is kind of insulting to the gastronomy of these countries. There are now a total of 311 Michelin stars between 255 German restaurants.
https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-867191.html
I second that and should anyone have doubts I'm ready for the challange to prove it.
" If you want to focus on food I agree to forget Amsterdam (full of history and museums btw). Forget Germany too (unless you consider schnitzels and bretzels as gastronomy). Forget UK Romania Hungary etc."
Sorry, but this is kind of insulting to the gastronomy of these countries. There are now a total of 311 Michelin stars between 255 German restaurants.
https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-867191.html
#36
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
"People don't regularly eat at Michelin star restaurants."
1) True, most people go to eat in Michelin star restuarants for a special occasion. A 2 week trip to Europe is a special occasion for most US travelers and many of them are able to afford to eat in Michelin star restuarants from time to time or actually even every day.
2) The number of Michelin stars is a good indicator of the quality of gastronomy in a country where Michelin is present. Michelin star restuarants are on the top of a pyramid, but they have a trickle down effect by setting examples for other restuarants and training staff who may go to work in other restuarants after gaining experience in Michelin star places or chefs who open their own restaurants and so on.
The bottom of the line: Nobody says that German gastronomy can compete with China, Japan, Italy, France, Spain, but it is much easier to find great food in Germany than it was in the 70's.
God bless Eckart Witzigmann for that!
https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/t.../23503570.html
" The OP registered and posted once only - then disappeared. Probably isn't all the interested in our advice."
It doesn't matter. This topic is here to stay and may be useful for other travellers.
1) True, most people go to eat in Michelin star restuarants for a special occasion. A 2 week trip to Europe is a special occasion for most US travelers and many of them are able to afford to eat in Michelin star restuarants from time to time or actually even every day.
2) The number of Michelin stars is a good indicator of the quality of gastronomy in a country where Michelin is present. Michelin star restuarants are on the top of a pyramid, but they have a trickle down effect by setting examples for other restuarants and training staff who may go to work in other restuarants after gaining experience in Michelin star places or chefs who open their own restaurants and so on.
The bottom of the line: Nobody says that German gastronomy can compete with China, Japan, Italy, France, Spain, but it is much easier to find great food in Germany than it was in the 70's.
God bless Eckart Witzigmann for that!
https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/t.../23503570.html
" The OP registered and posted once only - then disappeared. Probably isn't all the interested in our advice."
It doesn't matter. This topic is here to stay and may be useful for other travellers.
Last edited by BDKR; Sep 17th, 2019 at 02:43 AM.
#38

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
Likes: 0
<<Nobody says that German gastronomy can compete with China, Japan, Italy, France, Spain, but it is much easier to find great food in Germany than it was in the 70's.>>
That's certainly true, but it still doesn't make a Bratwurst something to look forward to.
That's certainly true, but it still doesn't make a Bratwurst something to look forward to.


