YES, you should have had travel insurance
Mar 30th, 2016, 04:01 PM
#21
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I think apprpriate travel insurance is a good idea for everybody, but some points about this particular discussion:
The cost of a trip is a "sunk cost." If your pre-paid trip costs $10,000 and you are well enough to take it, you're going to be out $10,000. If you are not well enough to take it, you are going to be out $10,000. If you can't afford not to take it due to unforeseen circumstances, you can't afford to take it, period.
If you die before or during a per-paid trip, travel insurance is of no use to you. It's only of use to your heirs. Nice to leave people something if you want to, but don't travel if you want to leave extra $$$$ to your heirs.
The cost of a trip is a "sunk cost." If your pre-paid trip costs $10,000 and you are well enough to take it, you're going to be out $10,000. If you are not well enough to take it, you are going to be out $10,000. If you can't afford not to take it due to unforeseen circumstances, you can't afford to take it, period.
If you die before or during a per-paid trip, travel insurance is of no use to you. It's only of use to your heirs. Nice to leave people something if you want to, but don't travel if you want to leave extra $$$$ to your heirs.
Mar 30th, 2016, 04:31 PM
#23
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RM67--I too am interested in who you bought your annual policy through.
I look back to our first overseas trips when we never bought insurance. So glad nothing happened as I am sure we would have been up a creek!
We have been buying the insurance for a while now, and had to use it once. Last year we had to cancel a trip last minute due to an emergency. It cost me $84 and we recouped $4000. So well worth it!
I took a fall near Paris one time and while we had insurance, we did not use it. I decided to suck up the pain until we got home as we have a really good knee surgeon here so I wanted to wait. But it was nice to know that if I could not wait it out that I would be covered. Our medical insurance here does not cover us outside of the US, so we always buy insurance mostly for that.
I look back to our first overseas trips when we never bought insurance. So glad nothing happened as I am sure we would have been up a creek!
We have been buying the insurance for a while now, and had to use it once. Last year we had to cancel a trip last minute due to an emergency. It cost me $84 and we recouped $4000. So well worth it!
I took a fall near Paris one time and while we had insurance, we did not use it. I decided to suck up the pain until we got home as we have a really good knee surgeon here so I wanted to wait. But it was nice to know that if I could not wait it out that I would be covered. Our medical insurance here does not cover us outside of the US, so we always buy insurance mostly for that.
Mar 30th, 2016, 04:32 PM
#24
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While some have suggested this is a culturally influenced matter, I see it as a purely business decision. I didn't consult a cultural guru but a spreadsheet.
I agree that were we taking a cruise or tour, that buying insurance makes sense - mainly because the cruise or tour company generally has negotiated good rates, based on the group as a whole being insured, not just an individual or couple. The premiums for cruise cancellation are thus relatively small, especially given that a cruise or tour involves a fairly high nonrefundable deposit.
But for the style of travel we do, it is cheaper and more effective to self insure, especially since I have never denied myself a claim
It is not a matter of social policy - the poor can't afford to travel, period, so my conscience is clear about self insurance. The risk is not that someone we know will die, so much as whether the premiums we pay <i> over our entire travel 'career' </i> will exceed any claim we could succeed in making with the company. The risks are also pretty well quantified - unlike liability insurance for oneself as a car driver, where one could be sued in court for who knows what sum. We also fly enough that within a relatively short period of time, the premiums we've saved, pretty much pay for another flight anyway.
I agree that were we taking a cruise or tour, that buying insurance makes sense - mainly because the cruise or tour company generally has negotiated good rates, based on the group as a whole being insured, not just an individual or couple. The premiums for cruise cancellation are thus relatively small, especially given that a cruise or tour involves a fairly high nonrefundable deposit.
But for the style of travel we do, it is cheaper and more effective to self insure, especially since I have never denied myself a claim
It is not a matter of social policy - the poor can't afford to travel, period, so my conscience is clear about self insurance. The risk is not that someone we know will die, so much as whether the premiums we pay <i> over our entire travel 'career' </i> will exceed any claim we could succeed in making with the company. The risks are also pretty well quantified - unlike liability insurance for oneself as a car driver, where one could be sued in court for who knows what sum. We also fly enough that within a relatively short period of time, the premiums we've saved, pretty much pay for another flight anyway.
Mar 30th, 2016, 05:23 PM
#25
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<i> By the way, if it is Viking's policy to charge grieving spouse's re-booking fees, what needs changing is Viking's policy -- not getting everybody who takes a cruise to buy travel insurance. </i>
Well, I sort of see the cruise company's take on this. They have to carry insurance against lost revenue, should (for example) the ship be damaged and the sailing can't take place, so that they have to refund everyone's passage. I doubt people would accept any argument by the cruise company that the ship was damaged during an act of God the day before the sailing date, so that such refund wasn't justified.
On the other side of the contract, deaths of people, like damage to ships from storms, are also 'acts of God' but that doesn't mean that the vendor should automatically have to pick up the tab for that, as well. Especially if someone decides to travel/sail, who really was too ill to be attempting any such thing. The thing to remember is this: cruise ships, hotels, airlines - none of them are in the insurance business. Those who ARE in the business, those who run, for example, the travel cancellation policies offered by the cruise or tour company will only cover the unexpected event; they won't just insure anybody, anywhere, for anything, no matter how sad or devastated the survivor is. This is a keynote of the insurance business.
So if the cruise ship company is writing off the rebooking fees as the OP suggests it is in this instance, they likely have their reasons - there are costs to rebooking which have to be covered, but perhaps they foresaw this man as a big source of future revenue. Whatever, I can see why they would be reluctant to make this general policy.
Well, I sort of see the cruise company's take on this. They have to carry insurance against lost revenue, should (for example) the ship be damaged and the sailing can't take place, so that they have to refund everyone's passage. I doubt people would accept any argument by the cruise company that the ship was damaged during an act of God the day before the sailing date, so that such refund wasn't justified.
On the other side of the contract, deaths of people, like damage to ships from storms, are also 'acts of God' but that doesn't mean that the vendor should automatically have to pick up the tab for that, as well. Especially if someone decides to travel/sail, who really was too ill to be attempting any such thing. The thing to remember is this: cruise ships, hotels, airlines - none of them are in the insurance business. Those who ARE in the business, those who run, for example, the travel cancellation policies offered by the cruise or tour company will only cover the unexpected event; they won't just insure anybody, anywhere, for anything, no matter how sad or devastated the survivor is. This is a keynote of the insurance business.
So if the cruise ship company is writing off the rebooking fees as the OP suggests it is in this instance, they likely have their reasons - there are costs to rebooking which have to be covered, but perhaps they foresaw this man as a big source of future revenue. Whatever, I can see why they would be reluctant to make this general policy.
Mar 30th, 2016, 07:34 PM
#27
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<I make a distinction between trip cancellation/interruption insurance and medical and medical evacuation/repatriation insurance. I would not travel without the latter, I would buy the former only if I had high prepaid costs, which is rarely the case.>
Excellent point.
Excellent point.
Mar 30th, 2016, 07:35 PM
#28
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We traveled from US to Europe twice last year along with a trip to Africa and a short stay in Middle East. We purchased a policy from Allianz that covered us for a year at a reasonable price.
https://www.allianztravelinsurance.c...l-benefits.htm
https://www.allianztravelinsurance.c...l-benefits.htm
Mar 30th, 2016, 07:39 PM
#29
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<<<i>Kathie on Mar 30, 16: I believe annual travel policies (other than med evac) are available only in Europe, not in the US or Canada.</i>>>
Not sure about Canada, but annual policies are most definitely available in the US. www.travelinsurancereview.net/plans/annual/
Not sure about Canada, but annual policies are most definitely available in the US. www.travelinsurancereview.net/plans/annual/
Mar 30th, 2016, 08:01 PM
#30
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<<I believe annual travel policies (other than med evac) are available only in Europe, not in the US or Canada.>>
Annual/multi-trip travel insurance is available from many companies in Canada. I certainly have one.
Annual/multi-trip travel insurance is available from many companies in Canada. I certainly have one.
Mar 31st, 2016, 01:57 AM
#31
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My policy is bought through work - we have a salary sacrifice scheme where you can purchase certain flexible benefits (eg childcare vouchers, gym membership, travel insurance) at a slightly reduced cost because of the number of people participating. The system is offline at the moment but when it comes back up I will log in and see who the underwriter is and what the cost was this year. I have a fairly comprehensive policy (apart from winter sports) with global cover for an unlimited number of yearly trips. I just auto-renew the policy every year.
Prior to having this scheme I used to purchase a yearly policy myself based on recommendations by websites like Moneyexpert.com and/or online comparision websites. I am UK based.
Prior to having this scheme I used to purchase a yearly policy myself based on recommendations by websites like Moneyexpert.com and/or online comparision websites. I am UK based.
Mar 31st, 2016, 02:16 AM
#32
One of our patients woke up in ICU in Cambodia, and only received ongoing treatment on presentation of her credit card until she maxxed it out. She then booked a flight home without flight staff being aware of her still poor condition as she'd never be allowed to board otherwise.
A horrible situation that left her broke.
Another young woman fell off a balcony in Germany and sustained serious injuries, in a coma for several weeks, multiple fractures, no insurance. There is no reciprocal health care agreement between Australia and Germany, so she was responsible for costs.
A horrible situation that left her broke.
Another young woman fell off a balcony in Germany and sustained serious injuries, in a coma for several weeks, multiple fractures, no insurance. There is no reciprocal health care agreement between Australia and Germany, so she was responsible for costs.
Mar 31st, 2016, 02:48 AM
#33
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>>>So if the cruise ship company is writing off the rebooking fees as the OP suggests it is in this instance, they likely have their reasons<<<
Yes: horrible publicity. Viking looked like heartless, money-grubbing cads. This is a service/entertainment company? What is the precentage of widowed spouses who want to continue with a booked cruise after a spouse dies? For the sake of less than $1000, Viking gave itself a black eye.
It's possible that a significant number of people who book cruises are unable to take them given that cruises are so popular among older people, who are statistically at higher risk of illness or death. So it might be unrealistic to expect a cruise ship company to give refunds, and travel insurance is a good policy for travelers who think they would roll over in their graves if a cruise company didn't refund their cruise fare to their heirs.
On the other hand, if the risk is significant from the point of the view of the cruise companies, why don't they insure themselves against it? Would be more appropriate.
Yes: horrible publicity. Viking looked like heartless, money-grubbing cads. This is a service/entertainment company? What is the precentage of widowed spouses who want to continue with a booked cruise after a spouse dies? For the sake of less than $1000, Viking gave itself a black eye.
It's possible that a significant number of people who book cruises are unable to take them given that cruises are so popular among older people, who are statistically at higher risk of illness or death. So it might be unrealistic to expect a cruise ship company to give refunds, and travel insurance is a good policy for travelers who think they would roll over in their graves if a cruise company didn't refund their cruise fare to their heirs.
On the other hand, if the risk is significant from the point of the view of the cruise companies, why don't they insure themselves against it? Would be more appropriate.
Mar 31st, 2016, 05:11 AM
#35
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I use Allianz for an annual policy, as well. Good peace of mind for the medical coverage, plus it has often paid for itself in trip interruption costs. I once got stuck in a tropical location for three extra days because of flight cancellations due to weather in another part of the country, and everything was covered.
Mar 31st, 2016, 11:57 AM
#36
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We bought travel insurance for the first time this winter because my 94 YO MIL had just gone into assisted living, and there was a non-trivial chance we might have to cancel the trip. My MIL is still hale and hearty, but the insurance picked up some of the costs when our flights home were cancelled owing to the Mid Atlantic Blizzard.
Someone was worried about communicating where she wanted to be evacuated if injured abroad. Most medical policies only evacuate you to the nearest place where you can receive appropriate care, and that may be around the corner.
This isn't really different from what would happen to you if you were injured in the US. They are not going to evacuate you to Portland, OR, if you collapse in Portland, ME. You would need additional coverage for that.
You need to find out if your insurance covers you for Acts of God and acts of terrorism and how these are defined. Many don't, including homeowners and business insurance.
I will repeat again that a relative's wife demanded that he be evacuated to the US from Dubrovnik when he had a stroke. It cost $70,000 in cash, up front.
I am very interested to hear about annual policies from Allianz. That is very interesting.
Someone was worried about communicating where she wanted to be evacuated if injured abroad. Most medical policies only evacuate you to the nearest place where you can receive appropriate care, and that may be around the corner.
This isn't really different from what would happen to you if you were injured in the US. They are not going to evacuate you to Portland, OR, if you collapse in Portland, ME. You would need additional coverage for that.
You need to find out if your insurance covers you for Acts of God and acts of terrorism and how these are defined. Many don't, including homeowners and business insurance.
I will repeat again that a relative's wife demanded that he be evacuated to the US from Dubrovnik when he had a stroke. It cost $70,000 in cash, up front.
I am very interested to hear about annual policies from Allianz. That is very interesting.
