farrermog

Good news at last - the civilian counter-insurgency is mobilising

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...810-1ilif.html

Sue_xx_yy

tom42 and palenq

For an underclass, one need look no further than the Jews of Nazi Germany.

Those Jewish Germans, who were continuously and zealously oppressed and ultimately murdered, en masse, by the government charged with their protection, did not break shop windows. Rather, they had their shop windows broken, instead (Krystallnacht - Night of Broken Glass.)

So history doesn't necessarily support your thesis that people riot because they are oppressed.

Actually, as that video of a young man in London being mugged by men pretending to help him rather suggests they quite like to wield corrupt power themselves.

http://tinyurl.com/3vtvdcm

FoFoBT

I know it won't happen, but I wish they would ban "hoodies" - by that I mean the hooded sweatshirts etc that these rioters are wearing. The shopping centre in Maidenhead and the larger mall in Reading banned them years ago - it cut down a lot on problems/crimes within the shopping centres.

Small, alcohol fueled "mini riots" (drunken brawls with mild to moderate injuries) popped up on most week-ends in Maidenhead. These were bad enough (they tended to happen around the train station, a fun thing to encounter if you were coming back from a day in London), what the UK is going through now is horrific.

Re the car burnings, in the suburban Berkshire pocket where we used to live, a car was stolen from our former neighbours, taken for a joy ride, left down the street around 4 am and set on fire. It burned down to the frame. A few house windows were broken; so were the side view mirrors of several cars parked outside. This is a middle-class neighbourhood, not a poverty-stricken inner city, Palq, what's your excuse for the kids who did this?

farrermog

And of course why is it that only a very small minority of 'the oppressed' feel the need to act like this? The parents of some of these charmers would be much more justified venting their grievances and yet it is some of those same parents who have conspicuously stood up to the young thugs. So it's hardly a class thing.

walkinaround

i'll bet that these thoughtless hoodies have absolutely no concern that they are robbing dozens of white, middle class britons of the pleasure of coming to fodors and being smug. don't they realise that nobody can come here and lecture americans on their problems when britain is burning.

come on people if we don't stop this, white middle class britons like flanny will have nothing to do with their time and no outlet for their aggressions. soon they will be on the streets with the hoodies unless we let them get back to teaching the americans about 'civilised society'.

let's think a little and stop this nonsense. why can't we all just get along?

willit

"let's think a little and stop this nonsense. why can't we all just get along?"

because of smug little turds like you whose only purpose on Fodor's appears to be to irritate other people - no matter what the topic of discussion, the seriousness of the matter.

You don't like it here? Go somewhere elese or stop whining.

flanneruk

""So janis dear - you think there is no underlying cause for this eruption - that they are just plain thugs?"

Of course there's an underlying cause: deliberately organised crime.

Based on encrypyted texts through Blackberry Messenger (how many poor people can afford the subscription to a Blackberry?), sent to pre-organised distribution lists, then randomly sent on to anyone else.

PalQ's patronising crap implies the poor are incapable of moral judgements. No doubt reflecting the arrogant world view of middle class Yank tossers like him.

But profoundly offensive to those of us who grew up dirt poor and DIDN'T go round in gangs destroying businesses built up by immigrants, or burning people's homes.

The underlying cause of that criminality has nothing to do with "social conditions" (today: infinitely more affluent in the neighbourhood the criminals spent last night burning down than they were when I grew up in it).But it's got a very great deal to do with supporters of crime like PalQ, who've spent the past half century telling these spoilt brats they've every right to steal, terrorise and kill.

And as long as PalQ continues to act as he mouthpiece for this pernicious nonsense, I suggest other posters boycott his destructive gibberish.

LondonYank

Well, Blackberrys are now relatively inexpensive thanks to iPhones. They seem to be the smartphone of choice for hoodies.

avalon

cambe, he's been out in the streets confronting the mobs for the last two nights - he's currently ready and waiting to go back out again tonight depending on whatever tonight brings. At taxpayer expense?" And he isn't getting overtime!!

cambe

Avalon, I have already apologised. I misread the post. I read it that the THUGS has nothing but sticks and the police were making light of it not the other way around. That was what made me angry. My heart goes out to all the police all over the country, I understand many were injured last night.

I will contact fodors and get my post removed.

jamikins

walkinaround - not all of us Brits are smug and ignorant to Americans. As someone who just lived through the riots in my backyard I find your post quite offensive and insensitive.

Well glad to report that in my neighbourhood it was all quiet last night. This is likely due to the complete shut down of town centre and transit at 2pm. I hear it spread to other cities and my heart goes out to them. Lets all pray they get this under control soon.

millie2112

I actually should not have said these people are acting like animals because I think animals are much better than these people. In fact I think animals are quite orderly.

I am just confused as to why the police are not shooting their knee caps off.

This is not about protesting, it is about a general 'underclass' taking the opportunity to finally get out and do what they have been wanting to do for a while.

flanneruk

"Well, Blackberrys are now relatively inexpensive thanks to iPhones"

The monthly subscription is unaffordable to anyone relying entirely on unemployment benefit or any other form of social security.

EVERYONE receiving encrypted messages from Blackberry Messenger (or able to afford a monthly iPhone subscription) is employed, living on a private income or relying on the proceeds of crime. They cannot be stealing and burning - and in Birmingham, now murdering - because of "massive unemployment of minority youth"

BTW: try telling London's Irish, Poles, Hindus, Sikhs or Chinese about "massive unemployment of minority youth"

flanneruk

More on this "underlying cause" bullshit:

From BBC 5 Live: 1132 this morning:

"the first person who appeared in the dock this morning was a 31-year-old teacher called Alexis Bailey. She pleaded guilty to being part of the looting of the Richer Sounds store in Croydon"

You couldn't make it up.

LondonYank

Sorry Flanneur - where did I say that these rioters were unemployed or relying on benefits?

flanneruk

flanneruk :"how many poor people can afford the subscription to a Blackberry?"
LondonYank: "Well, Blackberrys are now relatively inexpensive thanks to iPhones"
flanneruk: The monthly subscription is unaffordable to anyone relying entirely on unemployment benefit or any other form of social security

Ever tried living on British dole?

Thought not.

Cowboy1968

Blackberries is Britain's youth preferred type of mobile phone. It's not a device for a few well-off organized crime mobsters, but BB's messenger is popular among kids as they save a tonne compared to texting.
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/mar.../cmr11/uk/1.39
Times when the Crackberry was the businessman's expensive status symbol and incurred hefty fees for its services are gone. You can't deduct status from ownership any longer.

Back to square one:
Why did they do it? And why not earlier, and not until now? Someone whose preferred pastime occupation is rioting and looting will probably not sit around for five years as a model citizen and wait for the "big day"?

Thesis (not meant as a summary of "truths"):
During the economic crisis, model citizens like politicians, economists, bankers and brokers stole billions of (insert local currency) from the public. Think bail-outs. That's people's money pumped into commercial enterprises (usually those type of enterprises which were not to keen to pay taxes), while the management who drove the business in the ditch went to Barbabos with a fat bonus.
Cities and communities squandered and dumped their citizen's taxes in Islandic funds or financial instruments they had no clue about. What kind of justice had been delivered to those city councils or councillers? Anyone gone to jail?

What kind of message society been sending to the youth?
Respect your neighbor's property?
Work hard and you will be rewarded?
If you do wrong or perform badly you will suffer consequences?

Or was the last three years more a story of many losers, and a few winners. And the winners were those who gave a f*ck about morals and manners and all that paper-thin cr*p we call civilized behaviour.

I'm pretty sure that those young people know darn well that they commit crimes and steal and wreck other people's property. But they also don't give a f*ck about what others think of it.

It's not about finding cheap excuses for one person burning (and potentially harming and killing) another person's flat or shop. Frankly, I don't see any excuses, and the looters don't exactly look like poor misguided babies.
In fact, they have understood quite well on what kind of behaviour the society in 2011 is based upon.
But just a shot in the knee caps might not be a sustainable solution for the problem.

kerouac

Ah, an interesting and thought provoking post after a long dry spell. Thanks, cowboy.

kerouac

Ah, an interesting and thought provoking post after a long dry spell. Thanks, cowboy.

LondonYank

Thank you Cowboy for demonstrating my point.

Flanneur, ever tried pricing out blackberry plans?

Thought not