"You are confusing wealth tax (ISF) and impôt sur le revenu (IRS)."

I'm not.

The advice we've been given - which might be flawed, which is why I've stressed she needs to talk to an expert - is that pension pots (the portfolio of assets that generate the income for a pension) are subject to wealth tax if you spend over 180 days a year in France

And that, in addition to income tax on the pension you get, many forms of pension - such as annuities - attract an annual wealth tax on the IMPUTED capital value of the notional asset generating the annual income.

<i>Wealth tax applies only if your assets exceed &euro;760,000.</i>

But, if France considers pension values (or 401(k) balances) as part of the wealth calculation, then surely many US-sourced retirees would have assets exceeding that limit (above and beyond any US house value), and Flanner's concern about the wealth tax remains valid. They are even more valid if part of your plan is to sell your US home to fund your retirement in France.

Regardless of the specifics of the wealth tax, I think the broader lesson one should take away is:

You MUST talk to a qualified international tax specialist if you will become resident in Europe. My US tax return is some 50 pages long. I can't imagine trying to do that on my own. This is particularly true for those with large IRA or 401(k) balances that will fund retirement, as you may not get the same tax advantages on those balances while living in a European country that you would in the US.

Wouldn't move to Europe--all of our friends and family are in the USA and Japan! Friends and family are important to us. However, if finances were not an issue I would not mind spending summers in the Alps--probably the Austrian Alps.

I have thought about this and think that you really have to consider that a big part of the allure of vacationing somewhere is that you're not paying bills, running errands, going to the grocery store, working...you're strolling around without a care in the world, taking it all in.

I would love to move and/or retire to Italy. Really, I love it there. But when I think about how difficult it would be to do on a day to day basis, I just don't think it's practical. For those who want an apartment on Ile St. Louis or a farmhouse in Tuscany...imagine schlepping groceries through the tourists up to your flat? Or driving somewhere (anywhere) that's not within 2 minutes of your house for groceries. I know it's done that way by locals and perhaps I'm too tied to big city living, but I think I'd find day to day there just as frustrating and time-wasting as I find it here.

I think another an important thing to consider is how permanent is the move? If it is permanent then how will you cope if/when one of you dies or suffers from a stroke or some other debilitating illness? How will you feel in an old people's home where you must speak your second language, and where you cannot share youthful memories with your fellow inmates? Where your children cannot visit you monthly or maybe even annually?
These are hard things to contemplate if you are able to retire young but they are things that should be considered. Not everyone lives to be a fit and healthy 90 year old, even in Europe. One of you in a partnership will be left alone at some point.

Given the dollar falling against the Euro as it is (1.60 today!) will you really be able to afford to live in Europe, and pay for health care/nursing care? Given that the European population is ageing fast you cannot take for granted that these things will remain free/affordable for those with a less than perfect record of contributions in Europe, or even for those of us who have always lived here and paid taxes and contributions.

&quot;Too dificult for an American to be truly accepted&quot;

It's the opposite, actually. Now if you come from Russia, Ex-Yugoslavia or Africa, you might have more problems being accepted.

You do not give uo your citizenhip if you move..I have both! Oh and I fdid pack it in and mover over in my late 20's. Yes its harder to go home after many years away and for me its also different as my parents were not born or raised in America but moved there at 18 and 29 respectively. I have family here in ireland and to be homest after 13 yers I do not fit in as well at home in the U.S. and most people do not know I am american born until I tell them I spent most of my life there!

Retiring sounds great though and I often think of getting a place in another country for this time. Its like people gpoing to florida for the wionter in America...I could go to Spain or France or Italy!

Hey everyone...

I made the move and let me tell ya all... it wasn't easy and still 2 years laters, still struggling to adapt. Please, think twice! The hardest part is to settle with a fixed secured job, I think once you have managed this, everything else will be alright, i guess! But to get there is really hard. Unless, you're retired and don't have to worry about this!

@Lavradio,

What did you find to be the most difficult part of the transition?

Where are you located, if I may ask? What is the property cost in your area?

And that, in addition to income tax on the pension you get, many forms of pension - such as annuities - attract an annual wealth tax on the IMPUTED capital value of the notional asset generating the annual income.

The wealth tax is called ISF and doesn't apply to assets under &euro;760,000.
What you are referring to is problably CGS or &quot;contribution sociale g&eacute;n&eacute;ralis&eacute;e&quot;.

100% yes. The only reason that I don't is money. It's a great dream.

Just imagine at least 200 mio americans stuck in Provence. What a great place to live in, the USA would be.

It is a dream of mine to one day be able to split my time between Europe and my home here in the USA. Of course, I would never rule out the possibility of moving there permanently.

No way! I like being surrounded by people and places that I know and where I am comfortable. I have a beautiful old house, am a few steps from the Ocean and only 45 minutes out of NYC. That being said, I travel quite extensively and love experiencing other cultures. Since there are so many places I haven't been, I rarely go back to the same place twice.

No, I wouldn't. I lived on army posts for seven years (five of them in Heidelberg), and I had a great time. I traveled all over the world, skiied, and partied as well as working. I was at a DOD school and taught wonderful kids. But after a while even a great town like Heidelberg begins to pall.

I was bored with the place and I guess I was homesick for the U.S. I went to California and taught there for many years. I have returned to Europe and especially to Germany many times since then, to continue my study of German at Goethe Institutes, or just to visit favorite cities or cities I hadn't seen before. Ironically, I enjoy Germany much more than I did when I lived there. It's a whole different experience when you're a tourist.

I might like to stay for several months at a time, but I'd miss my big refrigerator, my washer and dryer, my beautiful back yard with all the flowers, my church, my family, the crazy politics...all that American stuff.

There's something special about talking to someone you've known since you were ten, about seeing the neighbor's teenager whose diapers you changed, about meeting kids whose grandfathers you went to elementary school with or a teacher who taught you first year Latin in 9th grade.

I live in a town where I have many connections that go back through most of my life. I wouldn't give up those connections for anything.

Funny, coming from Canada...we love Canada, but cant imagine leaving London (or Europe) to go back. Mind you we are in our early 30's..and both have secure jobs, but we love hte culture, and we are making pounds. So saving pounds, if we ever moved back to N. America we would have double the savings. Now I am a Chartered Accountant ans we save religiously, but we just bought a place and love it here. When we are 60 if we decide to move back our savings (assuming the FX is similar) will be double in Canada.

We love it here!!!

Of course, we would have to fence them in and maybe call the place &quot;Provence-aime-o&quot;

Over the past ten years, I have spent about two months each year in Europe, and will do so again next year. However, I am always pleased to return home and realize that I prefer to live in Australia where I fully understand and appreciate the lifestyle.

my dream of living in Provence near friends and heading to Paris for my city fix, will most likely die with me.

Interesting thread. Smiles. My answer is &quot;No&quot;.Personally, I wouldn't move to Europe. I like Europe a lot and have been vacationing there, almost annually, since the early 70s and have even lived there for 11-12 week periods for over a decade of summers. The other 2 decades of vacations there were for a shorter period of time... 8-21 days.
Personally, if I were to move somewhere(part-time though) which I'm seriously considering, I'd move to Southeast Asia, in a heartbeat. Preferably Bangkok. Have been vacationing there, for a decade, of almost annual trips, about twice a year, and rent a serviced apartment when I'm there.
One of my best, American, male friends will be moving to Italy around the first of the year, right outside of Venice.He will be retiring around 10 years early. He bought a condo there a few years ago, from a plan, and has paid it out, so he won't have to worry about that. But, he will have to worry about his retirement money getting a low exchange rate since the dollar has tanked so over the last 3-4 years. His money would go a lot farther if he stayed home. Happy Travels!