Why so many young American girls in Rome?
Jun 12th, 2015, 08:14 PM
#21
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<Is it normal - as till recently it was in Britain - for American parents to take children out of school for family holidays? Or is there some mid-term break I've not previously encountered?>
IDK.
Is it normal for middle aged Britons to eavesdrop on American children on family holidays? Or is there some summer travel tradition I've not previously encountered?
In all seriousness, it *is* summer, a fact which may have escaped a denizen of the sceptered isle, understandably.
IDK.
Is it normal for middle aged Britons to eavesdrop on American children on family holidays? Or is there some summer travel tradition I've not previously encountered?
In all seriousness, it *is* summer, a fact which may have escaped a denizen of the sceptered isle, understandably.
Jun 12th, 2015, 09:22 PM
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I'm not sure why only 14 yo GIRLS are taking trips to Rome with their parents."
Who said anything about "only"?
There WAS a strong bias to girls in family groups, and we didn't find this at all puzzling. Throughout the past half century we've noticed the growing feminisation of tourism to Italy, and Rome in particular.
With the Classics losing their share of educated adolescents' attention, and pilgrimages no longer almost the only legitimate escape from domestic shackles, Rome's appeal to younger people is increasingly about art. Which tends to be a girl thing.
Certainly true among our families, friends and neighbours. And broadly true of many family groups in Italy's major art destinations.
Around Chiantishire, for example, boys are as common as girls in family groups at trattorie - but tend to disappear when the party moves on to gawp at the Piero in the museo civico.
For the weaker sex, Renaissance art can't compete with the handheld - or with wine at Italian prices.
Who said anything about "only"?
There WAS a strong bias to girls in family groups, and we didn't find this at all puzzling. Throughout the past half century we've noticed the growing feminisation of tourism to Italy, and Rome in particular.
With the Classics losing their share of educated adolescents' attention, and pilgrimages no longer almost the only legitimate escape from domestic shackles, Rome's appeal to younger people is increasingly about art. Which tends to be a girl thing.
Certainly true among our families, friends and neighbours. And broadly true of many family groups in Italy's major art destinations.
Around Chiantishire, for example, boys are as common as girls in family groups at trattorie - but tend to disappear when the party moves on to gawp at the Piero in the museo civico.
For the weaker sex, Renaissance art can't compete with the handheld - or with wine at Italian prices.
Jun 12th, 2015, 09:29 PM
#23
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it may have to do with the Euro and the dollar growing closer to parity.
I just checked and the Euro was still low compared to the last decade.
But with Americans rushing to exchange those hard earned dollars,I feel the gap will widen soon.
That extra 30 percent adds up when you are a family of 5.
I am so happy that Americans who could not afford to see Europe last summer,are able to go without getting too deep in dept.
Everyone needs to see,hear,smell,taste and be in wonderful Europe.
I can't wait to take my granddaughter.She's 3 so I'll wait a bit.
I just checked and the Euro was still low compared to the last decade.
But with Americans rushing to exchange those hard earned dollars,I feel the gap will widen soon.
That extra 30 percent adds up when you are a family of 5.
I am so happy that Americans who could not afford to see Europe last summer,are able to go without getting too deep in dept.
Everyone needs to see,hear,smell,taste and be in wonderful Europe.
I can't wait to take my granddaughter.She's 3 so I'll wait a bit.
Jun 12th, 2015, 11:07 PM
#25
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of these replies are bizarre!
How can any intelligent person not notice who is around him?
Am I a closet queen because I notice that there are a lot of gay men in the neighborhood where we are staying in the 10th?
His question had to do really with whether people take their children out of school for holidays, and he got good answers on varying school dates in different regions of the US. Some people, do in fact, take their children out of school to go to Europe or the UK. When we did it many years ago, our children had to write essays on where they were going and keep illustrated journals to share on their return. They were 9 and 12. We also do not have lengthy half term holidays in the fall and our Christmas holidays are much shorter than I remember my grammar school friends having in England, so travel has to be concentrated.
Why the 14 year olds? Well, this is the cutoff between Middle School and High School. Once they are in high school, the whole focus [of the parents! at least] becomes getting students into university, and it would be a rare and stupid parent indeed who took a fifteen year old out of Chemistry if she needed good marks in Chemistry for admissions.
How can any intelligent person not notice who is around him?
Am I a closet queen because I notice that there are a lot of gay men in the neighborhood where we are staying in the 10th?
His question had to do really with whether people take their children out of school for holidays, and he got good answers on varying school dates in different regions of the US. Some people, do in fact, take their children out of school to go to Europe or the UK. When we did it many years ago, our children had to write essays on where they were going and keep illustrated journals to share on their return. They were 9 and 12. We also do not have lengthy half term holidays in the fall and our Christmas holidays are much shorter than I remember my grammar school friends having in England, so travel has to be concentrated.
Why the 14 year olds? Well, this is the cutoff between Middle School and High School. Once they are in high school, the whole focus [of the parents! at least] becomes getting students into university, and it would be a rare and stupid parent indeed who took a fifteen year old out of Chemistry if she needed good marks in Chemistry for admissions.
Jun 12th, 2015, 11:41 PM
#26
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<Rome's appeal to younger people is increasingly about art. Which tends to be a girl thing.>>
Does it? Then someone best inform my son and his friends who are some of Caravaggio's biggest fans and are 19 years old. What a whopping generalisation. Ugh. Who nominated you the expert on all things gendered?
<<For the weaker sex, Renaissance art can't compete with the handheld - or with wine at Italian prices.>>
How old are you? 75? 'The weaker sex' - presume you're referring to your frail old self then? Please - refrain from highly offensive language that belongs in the 1950s.
Does it? Then someone best inform my son and his friends who are some of Caravaggio's biggest fans and are 19 years old. What a whopping generalisation. Ugh. Who nominated you the expert on all things gendered?
<<For the weaker sex, Renaissance art can't compete with the handheld - or with wine at Italian prices.>>
How old are you? 75? 'The weaker sex' - presume you're referring to your frail old self then? Please - refrain from highly offensive language that belongs in the 1950s.
Jun 13th, 2015, 12:49 AM
#27
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't see that it's bizarre. Flanner wanted to know if American parents take their young teenagers on holiday during term time.
On another family topic, I too was noticing things when I was in Northern Italy recently. There seemed to be more pregnant women than I can ever remember, all very slim and glamorous. There were even a few families with a toddler and pregnant mum. I'd thought that Italy had a very low birth rate and had to look up figures. It seems to vary by region and northern Italy now has a higher birthrate than Germany. They are still lower than 2 per woman, but it's encouraging.
On another family topic, I too was noticing things when I was in Northern Italy recently. There seemed to be more pregnant women than I can ever remember, all very slim and glamorous. There were even a few families with a toddler and pregnant mum. I'd thought that Italy had a very low birth rate and had to look up figures. It seems to vary by region and northern Italy now has a higher birthrate than Germany. They are still lower than 2 per woman, but it's encouraging.
Jun 13th, 2015, 01:58 AM
#29
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 7,962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've noticed that once kids are in high school, many of them resist going on family holidays. They begin to find the company of their parents boring, they don't share their tastes in anything, and they may have romantic entanglements that they don't want to abandon even for two weeks. I've noticed this among family and friends both in Italy and in the US.
I remember an American friend who visited us when we lived in the Netherlands, along with his teenaged son. At one point our friend asked his son to please stop being so "aggressively bored".
I remember an American friend who visited us when we lived in the Netherlands, along with his teenaged son. At one point our friend asked his son to please stop being so "aggressively bored".
Jun 13th, 2015, 03:30 AM
#30
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even by the usual standards of Fodor's, and American reaction to Flanner's often rather direct remarks, this thread is a classic.
Flanner's first post was unexceptional. He had been in Rome and had been surprised by the number of younger teenage girls in family groups. He wondered why they were there in such numbers.
Now he is identified as some sort of nationalist pervert.
Flanner's first post was unexceptional. He had been in Rome and had been surprised by the number of younger teenage girls in family groups. He wondered why they were there in such numbers.
Now he is identified as some sort of nationalist pervert.
Jun 13th, 2015, 04:11 AM
#32
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sayler T -
Sory you are completelty wrong about June 1 being the lat day of school in the US. It varies considerably by par tof th eocunty.
In New York - not just the city which has 1.1 million school children, but the entire state, school does not en until late June - specifically June 26 this year.
For high schools the last 2 weeks of school are given up to either state regents exams - or local school finals for non-regent courses.
And this has been the case since I started school in 1961. And as far as I know long before that. However, school starts later - not until about sept 10th - unlike many laces which start schools in August. (Also school holidays differ around the country - I imagine schools are not closed for Yom Kippur or Rosh hashanah in many parts of the country.)
I on;t have info for the whole country - but do know other areas with similar dates. And it has nothing to do with ice and snow - but party I think to coloer weather in June. Also, the school year may be a week of two longer - not sure.
Sory you are completelty wrong about June 1 being the lat day of school in the US. It varies considerably by par tof th eocunty.
In New York - not just the city which has 1.1 million school children, but the entire state, school does not en until late June - specifically June 26 this year.
For high schools the last 2 weeks of school are given up to either state regents exams - or local school finals for non-regent courses.
And this has been the case since I started school in 1961. And as far as I know long before that. However, school starts later - not until about sept 10th - unlike many laces which start schools in August. (Also school holidays differ around the country - I imagine schools are not closed for Yom Kippur or Rosh hashanah in many parts of the country.)
I on;t have info for the whole country - but do know other areas with similar dates. And it has nothing to do with ice and snow - but party I think to coloer weather in June. Also, the school year may be a week of two longer - not sure.
Jun 13th, 2015, 04:50 AM
#34
Is this the place to tell the story of deciding where to go with my daughter, whose favorite book as a child was about myths and legends? When she was in college, she asked if I wanted to go somewhere with her over spring break. We talked about Italy, and she said, "Is Rome still a city?"
I guess I'm not alone in the bubble I live in. But we went, and now she knows. I think she was picturing it as something like Pompeii. We went to Pompeii too.
I guess I'm not alone in the bubble I live in. But we went, and now she knows. I think she was picturing it as something like Pompeii. We went to Pompeii too.
Jun 13th, 2015, 07:26 AM
#35
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love the way Ancient Rome and the modern city coexist. My daughter and I saw an ancient pillar in an ordinary street with someone's bike leaning against it. I live in a city with some Roman remains, but we decided that at home, that pillar would have railings round it and the street would be called Pillar Street.
Did you and your daughter go to Ostia Antica?
Did you and your daughter go to Ostia Antica?
Jun 13th, 2015, 07:50 AM
#37
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 49,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Every school district has their own schedules and every school district has various and different schedules within that district.
For example our 8th largest school district in the US has numerous school schedules. Some are year round, some traditional.
One example could be a year round school they could have a schedule like a month off from mid Dec to mid Jan AND a month off in April AND six weeks off from mid July to end of August. Which is what my school had.
Remember the school must provide something like 184 days of enrollment and how they ALL do that is different.
For example our 8th largest school district in the US has numerous school schedules. Some are year round, some traditional.
One example could be a year round school they could have a schedule like a month off from mid Dec to mid Jan AND a month off in April AND six weeks off from mid July to end of August. Which is what my school had.
Remember the school must provide something like 184 days of enrollment and how they ALL do that is different.
Jun 13th, 2015, 07:53 AM
#39
"They are still lower than 2 per woman, but it's encouraging."
Why is it encouraging? There are already far, far too many humans on this planet.
The county I live in in NC appears to have five school calendars plus four year round tracks. The one called "traditional" ended the school year June 8th and starts the next Sept 1st, the four others ended and restart earlier. It is already far too hot to be in school unless it has AC.
Why is it encouraging? There are already far, far too many humans on this planet.
The county I live in in NC appears to have five school calendars plus four year round tracks. The one called "traditional" ended the school year June 8th and starts the next Sept 1st, the four others ended and restart earlier. It is already far too hot to be in school unless it has AC.
Jun 13th, 2015, 08:14 AM
#40
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,024
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<The first of June is and always has been the last day of school in the USA>
Totally wrong. I grew up in CA and school always ended in mid-June in Los Angeles. Many school districts still do this, but not all. Like I said above, I have 3 daughters in education positions in the greater Sacramento area, 3 districts, each ends on a different week from late May to mid-June. In my last position as a high school librarian for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, over a dozen years our start and end dates shifted several weeks as well.
Totally wrong. I grew up in CA and school always ended in mid-June in Los Angeles. Many school districts still do this, but not all. Like I said above, I have 3 daughters in education positions in the greater Sacramento area, 3 districts, each ends on a different week from late May to mid-June. In my last position as a high school librarian for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, over a dozen years our start and end dates shifted several weeks as well.
