Someone asks: Why do you care so much whether the factual background was real? <BR> <BR>Answer: Because this travel forum is for discussing REAL questions and experiences, not fake ones. <BR> <BR>You know, I think I'll start a thread posing as an 10 year old child who is being dragged to museums by my pushy, selfish, thrice-divorced yuppy parents, who happen to be in the middle of a pitched custody battle over me. Sure, the thread would be a total hoax, but the discussion would be enlightening.

Pierre's posting posed an interesting question concerning a life style difference between France and the USA. The topic was relevant to travel. Obviously, people found it interesting enough to respond to it. <BR> <BR>Unless it is absolutely obvious that the scenario was phoney and that "Pierre" was a fictitious character, I think it's a bit insulting to ACCUSE the writer of being a "troll" (whatever that is) because, among other things, his writing supposedly includes an unlikely combination of correct and incorrect English. If in doubt, why not choose the course of avoiding insulting the writer, who may very well be a French visitor with extremely good, but not quite perfect English, who expresses himself well, but not as subtly (and therefore, inadvertently, not as politely) as he would in his native French? Why not just remember that a human being wrote this, and that it can't hurt to be polite and nice if you're not quite sure whether he's given you ample reason not to be.

Whether Pierre is a troll or not, the experience is real. And it's not a California thing. <BR> <BR>I live in Washington, D.C., and I walk whenever I can (with or without my dogs). I rarely get comments while walking in the city, although people often express surprise at how far I walk. <BR> <BR>However, I have notice that when I am in the suburbs (even just walking across a parking lot in a shopping center), some people seem to consider walking deviant behavior. Also, I have seen people drive from one side of the parking lot to the other. <BR> <BR>And yes, I think this is why a lot of us are overweight. <BR>

Here in Arizona, we do not walk during the months of June - August. You may walk in May and September, but only before 7am or after 9pm. During our so-called winter, you may walk all you like. In my suburban neighborhood, walking is quite fashionable, especially if you are pushing a stroller. Being pulled along by a dog is also acceptable. Walking to and from the grocer is definitely NOT fashionable and your neighbors will likely try to pick you up and "help" you home. The exception, of course, is made for those with grayish blue hair. It is generally assumed that these people walk because they like to. Imagine.

Pierre, Iunderstand what you mean with the overweight syndrome, even if it may have upset a few co-fodorites. I used to live in Paris and walk all the time. Since I've relocated to California, I'm il my car ALL the time and have put on a ton of weight. It's not just the food, it's the fact that all these little steps, walks and runs after the bus we add each day help keep in shape.

Reading these posts makes me glad I don't live in a suburb. I live in a small city on a residential street where I can walk to all the stores, library, gym, park. Nobody around here cares what's fashionable and what's not. I also ride my bike about every other day out on a country road or into town. I really don't think I could bare either a suburb or someplace like L.A. Between the yuppies and the constant car thing, I'd go mad.

This was an interesting question, and it definitely had a proper place on a "travel" forum.

This is for Howard: I don't think it's a California "thing" (I grew up in CA) so much as a city/ suburb difference. As in NYC, in SF or Oakland or Berkeley, no one will give you a funny look for walking around. But I think that in area that are more sprawling, e.g., suburbs and a lot of the LA area, people in this country aren't used to walking; they just drive automatically. Most of the people I know who relocated from CA to NYC--especially if they had lived in a suburban area, like my boyfriend--started out feelinkg like walking crosstown was *so far*. Now my boyfriend would rather walk home from something on the UES to Murray Hill if he has the time, and the distance doesn't bother him. (Me, I've always walked a lot to get places, so I I didn't have that adjustment).

I lived in NYC for years, walked everywhere and stayed in great shape. Now I live in the suburbs of Long Island and hardly ever walk anywhere because the area's more spread out and the culture is car oriented. The area was never intended for pedestrians. I miss walking everywhere. I go for a 3-mile walk very early in the morning before the traffic starts in, but it's not the same as just stepping out your front door and walking all over town. We got back last week from spending a week in Paris, and despite overindulging in rich food and drink, I managed to lose two pounds because of all the walking we did. It's the best exercise in the world and doesn't cost a dime. However, in America the only suburban walkers you'll find are mall walkers.

Caitlin, I hate to shoot down your theory, but I live in the NY suburbs--Westchester County to be exact....and you can't get any more suburban than that! And, guess what? Even with no sidewalks on most streets, we walk a lot around here. So, I dispute the claim that it's a city vs. suburbs thing. <BR>We walk a lot on my European trips, just as we do on our American trips, the most recent of which took us to Yosemite, where we did a hell of a lot walking/hiking! <BR>I don't think you categorize Americans along any consistent line on this matter.

(Or, were I to use a false name: <BR>Tired [email protected]g) <BR> <BR>It is common knowledge that urban Europeans do much, much more walking than Americans. Others have given concrete examples, so I won't bother to type any more. <BR> <BR>Also, when I was in Amsterdam on a warm weekend, many people were wearing shorts, and it struck me immediately that Amsterdammers' calve muscles are much more defined that Americans. Or maybe I was just projecting, but I don't think I was. <BR> <BR>If America ever goes the way of the Roman Empire, our addiction to the automobile will be a big reason. <BR>

Solution: Get a dog. It's socially acceptable to take a walk with a dog in the suburbs, and also more fun than walking alone. (Suggestion: Carry a plastic bag at all times; it makes you LOOK conscientious about pooper-scooping.) <BR>P.S. Pierre, if you're still there...I thought you asked a good question, and I don't think you were offensive. I also do not think you're a "troll" but I am. <BR>Sincerely, <BR>Adopt-a-Pet, aka eastcoastAmerican,, aka American, aka AAA

Okay, Howard, *maybe* it's not an urban/suburban thing, but it's not a California thing. A couple of things, though: I'm curious, when you walk around the area you live, do you walk just to go for a walk or do you actually walk around town to run your everyday errands, go to the train station, etc.? Answer or not, but I think Ess has a point in saying that people in spread-out suburbs generally walk if they make a point to, but drive to do everyday things. Also, I think just about everyone walks more when they travel; they may not have a car to drive, they're making a point of taking in the sights around them, etc. Most cities that are particularly popular travel destinations--in the US as well as Europe, with some notable exceptions--have somewhat compact and walkable downtowns, etc. I agree that you cannot generalize about Americans' walking habits, though. Each time I'm in Yosemite, I'm amazed by how many people *don't* walk or hike, but just drive or take shuttles to scenic areas and then walk 100 yards on a paved path and snap pictures. I've seen women wearing heels at Glacier Point. Most of all, I tink the non-walkers--in everyday life and while traveling--don't know what they're missing.

Caitlin, you've made some very good points. <BR>First, in response to your question, I walk for both the sake of walking (for my health) and to do errands. (A walk to the railroad station is out, because it would be a total two-mile uphill battle to get home!) <BR>Caitlin, we too often forget that most Americans don't lead healthy lives! <BR>Your Yosemite comments remind me of the experience we had on our first day there when we took the tram tour of Yosemite Valley to familiarize ourselves with the park. Sitting next to us was a couple who were in Yosemite just for the day during their California bus tour. When we remarked that we would be there for five days, the woman responded, "Gee what will you do for the rest of your stay?" She probably wasn't a walker!

still think this was interesting (and genuine)

I think it has to do with many things, people in American seem to be in much more of a hurry than in Europe. I would have to talk my co-workers into walking 15 minutes to a lunch spot vs jumping in the car to drive there which saved them about 15 minutes on a round trip. <BR> <BR>I was also fortunate enough to live only a mile from a nice mall when living in Raleigh and people thought I was crazy to walk to it instead of ride. (frankly during Christmas time it probably took less time since I didn't have to find a parking spot.) <BR> <BR>Sidewalks outside the cities are often not there. So even though I was a person that preferred to walk, that was sometimes a deterrant. <BR> <BR>I'm currently living in another country and also noticed that the grocery stores have delivery set up--which I don't believe is readily available in the US (unless you order off the web and don't even have to get up off your fanny to get in the car) <BR> <BR>What also kills me is that people will drive to the gym/health club (even if it's within walking distance) ride around in circles to find the closest parking spot and then go inside and walk on a tread mill. I mean, what is up with that??? <BR> <BR>Thanks for listening...I think I'll go for a walk now...

I first moved to the US when I went to college in Durham, NC. For orientation, my mom and I booked a hotel which was about a 15 minute walk to the center of the university and did not rent a car. When we got to the hotel we realized that there were no sidewalks! Eeveryone else in our hotel (they were all from the US) had either driven there or had rented a car at the airport. Despite the proximity to campus, no one expected to walk there (except us)! <BR> <BR>I now live in NYC and walk everywhere. I love it. I realize NYC is NOT the norm in the US. I came here for grad school, and I lived in a dorm that was a 30 minute fast-paced walk to one of the buildings in which we had class. I was the only person that walked to and from class everyday, the rest took the subway! Sometimes, in really nice weather they would walk home. My conclusion...people in the US do NOT walk! The only times that they "walkd" is to talke their dog out for a 5-15 minute walk and that is it!

The temperature here this morning was 8F (-13C). I did not walk to work.