Why bash Americans?
Nov 22nd, 2000, 12:15 PM
#1
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Why bash Americans?
Just thought I would throw that out there for you to discuss. I've never heard anyone ever say anything realy bad about an Europeans. Sure we have our differences, but nothing we can't easily cast aside. I know there are some who hate us because we send our troops all over the world for peacekeeping, but don't blame us, blame our outgoing president (President Hillbilly). I think I have a great deal of respect for Europeans in general, and my field of study for my International Affairs degree is Eastern Europe. When it comes to 'policing' the world, I think that is BS. If the little guy is getting beat upon by a bigger guy, that's a different story.
As far as we going on vacation and acting really stupid or not trying to converse in the native language, I agree. I feel the same way about immigrants here who don't want to learn the language. My philosophy is when in Rome, do as the Roman's do. Going to landmarks or tourist traps doesn't help you learn about the country. It helps you learn about the country's past. I say go into the countryside and talk with the people. Stay in guest houses. Explore the countryside.
That's just my view. I don't hate you, so don't hate me. Learn more about me as I learn more about you.
So, what's your beef (if you have one)? Or, share what you think other's migh be.
As far as we going on vacation and acting really stupid or not trying to converse in the native language, I agree. I feel the same way about immigrants here who don't want to learn the language. My philosophy is when in Rome, do as the Roman's do. Going to landmarks or tourist traps doesn't help you learn about the country. It helps you learn about the country's past. I say go into the countryside and talk with the people. Stay in guest houses. Explore the countryside.
That's just my view. I don't hate you, so don't hate me. Learn more about me as I learn more about you.
So, what's your beef (if you have one)? Or, share what you think other's migh be.
Nov 23rd, 2000, 01:55 AM
#8
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We don't hate you - you just scare us. Disregarding the big brother, world policeman and superiority attitude I think the reason that Americans come in for a lot of criticism from other nations is that we see your present as our future and it terrifies us. You have a naturally beautiful and diverse country but only export the worst aspects i.e. fast food plastic palaces, zero atmosphere shopping malls, muzak. All the mindless and boring. We feel in danger is losing our identity and everything that makes us unique - the quaint little coffee house becoming a Starbucks, the local Italian restaurant being replaced by a McDonalds, KFC or Pizza Hut. The local butcher, baker, fruiterer, fishmonger, chemist etc who all know you by name and will personally deliver to your kitchen table being forced out by huge sterile supermarkets staffed by pimple-faced kids who have no idea. The dreary sameness of everything. It's like looking into the future.
Nov 23rd, 2000, 03:24 AM
#10
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Chris: Just 2 days ago you posted the message below:
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" First time traveller overseas needs some planning help
Author: Chris H ([email protected])
Date: 11/20/2000, 6:09 pm ET
Message: Planning a two-three week trip in May of '01, and need some help planning some stuff out and some traveling tips.
For example, travelling by train, fun stuff to do in London, cheap travel and stuff to do.
Just about anything you have to share would be helpful.
Thanks "
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So, just 2 days ago you asked for very basic travel info for your trip to England (a subsequent post in the thread defined that England is the only place you are visiting.
Now, you are try to be very philosophical about Europeans, blah, blah, blah, and "American bashing" as you call it.
I'm beginning to think you are a phony and so are your posts.
-------------------
" First time traveller overseas needs some planning help
Author: Chris H ([email protected])
Date: 11/20/2000, 6:09 pm ET
Message: Planning a two-three week trip in May of '01, and need some help planning some stuff out and some traveling tips.
For example, travelling by train, fun stuff to do in London, cheap travel and stuff to do.
Just about anything you have to share would be helpful.
Thanks "
---------------
So, just 2 days ago you asked for very basic travel info for your trip to England (a subsequent post in the thread defined that England is the only place you are visiting.
Now, you are try to be very philosophical about Europeans, blah, blah, blah, and "American bashing" as you call it.
I'm beginning to think you are a phony and so are your posts.
Nov 23rd, 2000, 03:41 AM
#11
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1. If he's inexperienced, that doesn't mean he has no right to philosophize, speculate, etc. based on what he's read, heard and thought about.
2. It is not a crime to ask a hypothetical question that you think ought to be answered, or a question on behalf of an acquaintance too shy to write, etc.
3. Posters are not required to swear to tell the truth, nor to satisfy an intelligence or esperience test before posting.
4. Why do some people have such an obsession about uncovering "phoney" postings?
5. Be nice.
2. It is not a crime to ask a hypothetical question that you think ought to be answered, or a question on behalf of an acquaintance too shy to write, etc.
3. Posters are not required to swear to tell the truth, nor to satisfy an intelligence or esperience test before posting.
4. Why do some people have such an obsession about uncovering "phoney" postings?
5. Be nice.
Nov 23rd, 2000, 03:44 AM
#12
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You don't have to travel to Europe to know that lots of people around the world don't like Americans or the American government. You can easily find that out by watching the news, reading magazines or even here on Fodors.
I have a few comments for Chris, even though I appreciate what you're trying to do...
1) President Hillbilly? Every president in recent history has sent troops overseas. I might add that if the American people and Congress were totally opposed, it wouldn't happen.
2) Some people see policing the world and protecting the little guy from the bigger guy as the same thing.
3) You compared tourists not learning the language with immigrants not learning the language. Big difference!!
I have a few comments for Chris, even though I appreciate what you're trying to do...
1) President Hillbilly? Every president in recent history has sent troops overseas. I might add that if the American people and Congress were totally opposed, it wouldn't happen.
2) Some people see policing the world and protecting the little guy from the bigger guy as the same thing.
3) You compared tourists not learning the language with immigrants not learning the language. Big difference!!
Nov 23rd, 2000, 05:41 AM
#14
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Last year we were in Ireland (stayed in B & B's so we could really get acqainted with the Irish)& one lovely lady related what had taken place the previous tourist season.
They had a couple from Detroit, Michigan stay there & the man asked to video a little of their home. He ended up in every room, even in their kitchen & son's room. She thought it was so rude of him. He also told her his car back home was so big, it wouldn't have been able to fit in the lane to their home.
We were so sorry to hear this & apologized to her and assured her we weren't all like him. Thankfully.
It's people like him hurt our image.
They had a couple from Detroit, Michigan stay there & the man asked to video a little of their home. He ended up in every room, even in their kitchen & son's room. She thought it was so rude of him. He also told her his car back home was so big, it wouldn't have been able to fit in the lane to their home.
We were so sorry to hear this & apologized to her and assured her we weren't all like him. Thankfully.
It's people like him hurt our image.
Nov 23rd, 2000, 10:35 AM
#15
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Well, I guess we get bashed because we are so bashable. After the Florida election mess, how can we not be bashed!!
I don't know that the election was crooked; it was just a series of monsterous screw-ups that makes us look like idiots. We are so arrogant as to think we can tell other nations how to run elections? Better clean up our own messes first.
I don't know that the election was crooked; it was just a series of monsterous screw-ups that makes us look like idiots. We are so arrogant as to think we can tell other nations how to run elections? Better clean up our own messes first.
Nov 23rd, 2000, 01:16 PM
#16
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I don't see that the American's are bashed any more than the French or the Germans so what's the beef? The French deserve it - cos they are French and the Americans get it cos there are always going to be a few misfits around who just love to winge and whine.
God Bless America I say (and I'm a Brit:
Steph
God Bless America I say (and I'm a Brit:
Steph
Nov 24th, 2000, 05:28 AM
#18
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Didn't the Brits (and other Europeans) play a big role in bombing Belgrade? Did the U.S really 'decide' how to handle that problem or did they meet with European allies to determine the course of action? I'm not an expert on the situation but couldn't you say we helped out? Most Americans probably don't care if Milosovic (sp) stayed in power or not but the rest of Europe certainly did. Could it also be true that Europeans are happy to let the U.S. help pay for such ventures? How about if the U.S. cuts off all aid to Russia and other countries in the area? Believe me, most Americans would be quite happy about that!
Keep in mind that if any of our European allies were invaded or threatened, the U.S. would be right there to help out.
Another point, the U.S. is a big, populous, rich and advanced country. Should we keep that all to ourselves? How much should we help others? I'm talking about aid, in whatever form you want to consider.
Comments like the last post sound like sour grapes to me.
Keep in mind that if any of our European allies were invaded or threatened, the U.S. would be right there to help out.
Another point, the U.S. is a big, populous, rich and advanced country. Should we keep that all to ourselves? How much should we help others? I'm talking about aid, in whatever form you want to consider.
Comments like the last post sound like sour grapes to me.
Nov 24th, 2000, 05:49 AM
#19
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Judy, why would you feel it necessary to apologize to your Irish host and explain that all Americans aren't obnoxious? When I meet an obnoxious American or Brit or Belgian or whatever, I'm not so naive that I assume that their whole nation is like that. The woman ran a B&B - surely she had had some good experiences with Americans and bad experiences with non-Americans. I find it odd that you would feel you have to defend your country's citizens against the behaviour of one man.
Nov 24th, 2000, 09:26 AM
#20
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So you can discern someone a 'phoney' by two topics? And I suppose you are the smartest person on the planet.
I ask this question because I see a lot of it in my IA major. Just because the farthest I've gone is DC doesn't mean I don't have the experience to ask such a question.
I think a lot of this policing has become more prevailant in the last eight years. If you haven't studied anything, you won't realize this president has overstepped his legal bounds more times than I can remember. The President can send troops to other countries all day for 'policing' action, and he really doesn't have to even TELL congress or the American people. Look at all the land he grabbed in the American West and Alaska. Totally went above and beyond a previous law stating that he must go through congress. I hope he gets convicted. He was the one who sent troops to Somalia, Bosnia, etc, etc, etc.
Kuwait was totally different, and a bunch of European nations sent troops as well. That was to protect the world's oil supply and the economy of every industrialized nation in the world. You can't tell me with honestness that it wasn't ok to do that.
When I mean'bigger and smaller' nations, I mean virtually defenseless nations and aggressor nations. Like Kuwait. Like South Vietnam (that went over well...) etc. I don't think we, the US, should send troops to other countries unless they ask for our help. Wouldn't your country do the same thing?
I just wanted to enhance the difference between bashing America as a country because a select few decide to make themselves sem great in the annuls of history. Not all Americans are this way. Not all French smell and don't shave. Not all Swiss are the people on the Swiss Miss package. It's a two way street people. It's these generalizations that breed hate between people.
I live in the South. But I'm not a truck-driving, rebel-flag waving racist. But, some people would think that I was, just FROM WHERE I LIVE.
When I say that I don't see a lot of Europe-bashing, that's my own personal experience. I just don't see it where I am. Many tourists (I should rather say visitors) come into where I work, and we almost always ask from where they are, how they are enjoying their stay, if they need any help finding anything, etc. If there's an asshole, they are just that, not their country.
I would like to be treated the same way, but I don't expect it.
I think before you go to any country, take a while and read up on it. It's history. It's language, learn a little of it. I'm trying to learn all the little British slang to try and fit in. It's not the same as learning a foreign language, but I know Spanish and a little German, Portugese and Russian. Because when I travel to these countries, I want to enjoy my trip more. I know the people I talk to in my store that can understand some English find that their trip is more enjoyable. Because I ask.
So that is why I ask. Because I want to know.
A man once said 'Those that never ask questions do not not everything, they know nothing.'
So, as Sharon said, why bash anyone?
Except those who listen to country music and pink jogging suits.
I ask this question because I see a lot of it in my IA major. Just because the farthest I've gone is DC doesn't mean I don't have the experience to ask such a question.
I think a lot of this policing has become more prevailant in the last eight years. If you haven't studied anything, you won't realize this president has overstepped his legal bounds more times than I can remember. The President can send troops to other countries all day for 'policing' action, and he really doesn't have to even TELL congress or the American people. Look at all the land he grabbed in the American West and Alaska. Totally went above and beyond a previous law stating that he must go through congress. I hope he gets convicted. He was the one who sent troops to Somalia, Bosnia, etc, etc, etc.
Kuwait was totally different, and a bunch of European nations sent troops as well. That was to protect the world's oil supply and the economy of every industrialized nation in the world. You can't tell me with honestness that it wasn't ok to do that.
When I mean'bigger and smaller' nations, I mean virtually defenseless nations and aggressor nations. Like Kuwait. Like South Vietnam (that went over well...) etc. I don't think we, the US, should send troops to other countries unless they ask for our help. Wouldn't your country do the same thing?
I just wanted to enhance the difference between bashing America as a country because a select few decide to make themselves sem great in the annuls of history. Not all Americans are this way. Not all French smell and don't shave. Not all Swiss are the people on the Swiss Miss package. It's a two way street people. It's these generalizations that breed hate between people.
I live in the South. But I'm not a truck-driving, rebel-flag waving racist. But, some people would think that I was, just FROM WHERE I LIVE.
When I say that I don't see a lot of Europe-bashing, that's my own personal experience. I just don't see it where I am. Many tourists (I should rather say visitors) come into where I work, and we almost always ask from where they are, how they are enjoying their stay, if they need any help finding anything, etc. If there's an asshole, they are just that, not their country.
I would like to be treated the same way, but I don't expect it.
I think before you go to any country, take a while and read up on it. It's history. It's language, learn a little of it. I'm trying to learn all the little British slang to try and fit in. It's not the same as learning a foreign language, but I know Spanish and a little German, Portugese and Russian. Because when I travel to these countries, I want to enjoy my trip more. I know the people I talk to in my store that can understand some English find that their trip is more enjoyable. Because I ask.
So that is why I ask. Because I want to know.
A man once said 'Those that never ask questions do not not everything, they know nothing.'
So, as Sharon said, why bash anyone?
Except those who listen to country music and pink jogging suits.
