Is it just me, or are we seeing a huge increase in the number of ridiculous, impossible, clueless proposed itineraries? I've been a regular on Fodor's since 1995 and I don't remember ever seeing SO many of these threads asking for critiques, or "Am I Crazy?".
(Yes, you are.)

It's not just "doing" 13 European countries in 4 days, it's the US too. "Any recommendations for a company to take me on a "day trip" to Bryce and Zion from Las Vegas? I want comfortable transportation."

Why? Any theories?

With the world economy being what it is right now, I just can't believe there are this many first time travelers with such misconceptions.

I'm happy to help with the knowledge and experience I have - Italy, western US and Canada, but it seems there are so many people posting who haven't even looked at a map. Geez.

<i>but it seems there are so many people posting who haven't even looked at a map</i>

That probably is one of the main reasons, added to that the attitude that it is more convenient to have others provide the information than do the research oneself.

You're right and there are a few reasons I think
1. Far more people are far more comfortable using the internet for far more reasons. And so we get people asking these crazy questions.
2. Fodors is a good site that is easy to use so it gets used more by new people.
3. People are more comfortable trying to work out trips themselves and not using traditional travel agents.

It can be quite funny but it can be frustrating that some people don't seem to have given any thought at all before posting. It can bring out some uncharitable responses from people too which is a shame but not entirely without good reason sometimes.

I agree. It used to be that folks did hard copy research first (guide books, maps, etc.) and then posted questions. Now, the internet and boards such as this are the first place they come when a thought of travel pops into their heads. When I begin to get frustrated with the clutter questions, I try to think of Ben Haines, one of the experts who helped me on this site when I first started traveling abroad. Ben always remained a patient, helpful gentleman no matter how inane the query.

As a travel novice here is why I think there are so many inquiries for impossible itinerarys:
1. Travel agents are getting rare. At least they are in my area of the world. I would have to drive 50 miles to meet face to face with an agent.
2. Fodors is free, thus the forum is free.
3. The internet is getting kinda popular. More human traffic = more impossible questions.
4. I barely attained a high school diploma and yet I can plan a European vacation from my couch. With forum help notwithstanding.
5. Sometimes people are just so filled with anticipation about their upcoming trip, they have to ask a silly question just for the sake of talking about their upcoming trip.
6. Renters remorse/ nervous anticipation. Why else would someone ask about the reputation of xyz apartment rentals AFTER they just sent $1,000 in the form of a nonrefundable deposit on an apartment.
7. It is a lot easier to ask the forum posters a question than it is to actually do the work/research myself.
8. Personal experience trumps a guide book everytime. (in my opinion)
9. Did I mention its free.

I marvell at how some posters, like Nukesafe and some others, can so politely and eloquently suggest to someone to get a guide book, look at a map, etc. This is a volunteer organization(the forums) and I have left volunteer organizations because of burnout, so I have empathy for posters that have quit posting. I wish someone would have told me to take a break before burnout set in. I know I put a lot of stock into the experience that other travelers pass on in the forums and it is appreciated.

Agree that it is getting worse. And I think a lot of it is due to the fact that everyone has a GPS ad practicaly no one owns - or knows how to read a map.

I know when I'm thinking about going somewhere (based on some sights I know at least a little about) the first thing I look for is maps - of the place itself, of the area - and my trusty atlas.

I think GPS causes people to stop thinking - and just mindlessly follow directions. If you have no perspective - you don;t know that your plan is ridiculous. And if you haven;t traveled very much it may not occur to you that things are 12 hours - rather than 2 hours apart.

I think it goes deeper. I've been around a while, so my education was far different from what goes on now. Knowledge of geography, history, and mathematics is sorely lacking in a large part of the adult population now. No longer is logical thinking, use of books for reference and non-google research, and critical analysis being taught. It's multiple choice and short answers instead of essays, projects instead of term papers, powerpoint instead of book reviews.

People who can't find Chicago on a map ask how to do it as a daytrip from New York or think Paris is just down the street from Amsterdam. They are finally in a position to take a trip beyond the local beach, so they get a little information, mix it with hope and movie memories, and want everything in the candy store all at once.

It is really quite expected, in a way, but we never see these questions for a second trip. Someone who has never tried to take a train from a plane in a foreign language and then check into a hotel while jetlagged will not have the experience to understand travel logistics. After the fist trip, they will have learned or will never go again.

Agree, it seems NOBODY has a map, looks at one, or knows how to read one anymore. It's shameful.

"<i>it's the US too. "Any recommendations for a company to take me on a "day trip" to Bryce and Zion from Las Vegas? I want comfortable transportation."</i>"

Even WORSE than that. There is now a thread asking about a trip from Vegas to <i>Monument Valley</i> w/ one day and having to be back in LV by 11AM the next morning??!!

There is another trend -- which is mostly here on the Europe board. Folks post a virtually impossible itinerary (or a <u>totally</u> impossible one) and if any of us dare to say "it is impossible", or "you need a map", or "get a guidebook" - or anything remotely sensible . . . 2 or 3 'nannies' (the same usual suspects) jump in and attack us for being <i>mean</i>.

It isn't about maps, it's about a faster pace of life more generally. And it's about a culture where anything is possible for ME.

I completely agree with ziggypop that personal experience always tops the guidebooks and it's not really about renter's remorse or nervous anticipation. I can completely understand those types of questions. The forums here and the generous Fodorites have helped me greatly on my trips to Italy, France and all over the west.

I'm mainly referring to the 1/2 day to see Switzerland, drive on to Barcelona, etc. type proposed itineraries. Also the ones where the poster says they want to visit Rome, Florence and Venice and asks what there is to see and do there. Huh?
If you don't know what there is to see, how do you know you want to go??

I know I love to read Fodorites' trip reports and from those I often make note of little towns or lesser known sites that sound appealing to me. I've planned two trips to Italy that have had about half the time/destinations devoted to these spots.

Yes, I'm "middle aged" now and an excellent map reader, but as soon as I am serious about a trip (whether it's US or Europe) I start looking at guide books so I know which well known highlights I might want to include, and I buy a detailed map. I can't get a good idea of logistics without one!

Maybe part of it is burnout - I rarely answer any of the Utah "Grand Circle" itinerary questions anymore. It's all been said SO many times and there are just a few ways to do the trip. It's rare that someone comes up with an unusual request or specific interest.

Maybe new Fodorites need to utilize the search function more? There is an absolute wealth of information here if someone is just willing to spend a little time.

I love it when posters ask detailed questions that require the expertise of the Fodorites. That's the type of info you will never find in a guidebook, but someone here will know the answer for sure!

Fodorites, weigh in here. Your opinions might be helpful to new posters as well as to Fodor's in compiling new guidebooks.

There are some impossible trips proposed, but some people like to cover a lot of territory - - I know I do. I realize that most people would recommend a week in London or Paris, and five nights in smaller places, but I'm happy with two or three nights just about anywhere (very happy to save things for next time).

People experience physical geography, cultural offerings, and travel pleasures differently - - and the reasons can range from one's developed interests to one's neurophysiology. For me, I have an instant memory for places, an internal GPS-styled sense of direction, and a need for high stim. This makes me want to cover a LOT of geography and see a lot of visual beauty quickly, and once I've been somewhere I don't forget it (and thus can quickly get habituated to it). Being in a museum you can see a lot of art; being in trains, buses, and stations you see a lot of PERFORMANCE art - - all the world's a stage.

People are different in their travel styles, and for many different reasons. (Another might be that they only have a two week vacation, and want a lot of variety and experiences).

I just assumed that people were bored and thought they might have some fun watching us react.

The outlandish itineraries do chafe. On two occasions I have seen the same 8-cities-in-12-days query cut and pasted over to TripAdvisor when fodors didn't react enthusiastically.

The descriptions above of confused Americans trying to "travel" around the US is even worse, something I thought not possible.

Excuse my ignorance, but what does IITTMBB mean?

What I don't get is, if they are hell bent on doing it anyway, then why ask for opinions? That is true of lots of things though. People tell you something, then ask what you think. It is ok to share you ideas, but don't ask for an opinion unless you really want to hear it. It is even worse when they ask. You tell them. Then, they want to argue and to defend their original plan and try to get you to agree that it is a good idea.

Or, I've begun to think: if they want to see 8 cities in 12 days, let 'em. Why waste time or energy talking someone out of something he/she is determined to do anyway?

"<i>Excuse my ignorance, but what does IITTMBB mean</i>


the movie >>If its Tuesday This Must Be Belgium<<

It's what I call Twitter brain, no depth, instant gratification. There is a growing cadre of people who see these forums as personal, on call travel advisors, people who are apparenly unwilling to do even the most basic research. I admire those who will answer patiently, but I myself have little time for this type of broad general question, as in plan my trip, where should I stay, where should I eat, especially when these questions can be answered using a simpe search.

And I don't mean the "Hello, I have been looking for recommendation for XYZ and everything is 2 years old, anyone bern more recently"? I mean, " Where should we stay in Venice"?

I have another thought. It seems a decent percentage of these types of itineraries are proposed by people coming very long distances to visit Europe - many from India, for example. While I think absolutely everyone needs to look at a map and calculate distances and do some basic research on accommodations and modes of travel and restaurants and so forth, I do understand the mindset of going someplace very far away and wanting to cram in as much as possible. That was certainly my mindset when I traveled to India. I really did think it might be my only chance to visit.

So I'll cut those folks some slack. The just plain lazy ones, sorry.