there are 2 travellers probably with a suitcase each. We want to move around the main cities but which trains should we use and which class would be best?
Should we stick to ES italia and 1 st class to give us space? Reservations have to be made so we are always guaranteed a seat?? Isn't that true?

excellent free primer on European trains... at www.budgeteuropetravel.com will answer all these questions and more (European Planning & Rail guide) they also answer questions like these at 800-441-2387. www.ricksteves.com also has useful info on trains as well as cheap flights you may want to mix in with trains.

Fodorites are amazingly knowledgeable about European trains - so ask more exact questions and you'll get experts to answer them.

If you are under a certain age you can travel 2nd class, but my age dictates lst class.

Having only traveled in lst class, I found it most comfortable, least crowded.

When you arrive in Italy you can go to the first station and book your reservations all at one time, or you can book at a travel agency in Italy without extra cost. Make sure that the sign indicates train reservations.

I don't know your age. If I were a young person traveling throughout Europe I would probably go 2nd class, mingle with the young crowd and hook up with new friends. But as an older traveler 60+ lst class is my mode of travel. Less crowded, more room, etc.

We are in our mid-60's and nearly always travel in 2nd class. The savings mean more to us than the extra space. I would rather spend the money on other parts of the trip.

Hi T,

All ES* trains are reserved seat only, 1 and 2 cl.

>which trains should we use and which class would be best?<

I don't know. Where are you going?

Schedules, prices and tickets are at http://www.trenitalia.com/en/index.html

TYP,

Just got back from my first trip to Italy traveling with my teenage daughter. The ES* trains are worth the money in most cases because of the time saved. IMO 2nd class is fine...you don't get much difference in 1st class.

If you do have to take a Regional train, I think it is worth the extra $ to travel in 1st class. Less crowded and more comfortable.

there is always a significant difference between first and second class, even on spiffy Eurostar Italia trains - in my opinion anyone who says there isn't just has never ridden in first class.

seats 25% bigger because you have three in a row instead of 4 in the same sized train car. more room for luggage and often lot more empty seats than in 2nd class.

1st class has isolated seats - 1 seat facing a window and an aisle that to me are immeasurably better than the two-by two seats in 2nd class - easier to get to the loo, etc. without asking someone to get up. there are also two seat rows in 1st class but with bigger room to manoeuver.

The price for trains in Italy is so cheap that even first class won't break the bank. Apply the same discretion to a train ride as to your hotel - go first class unless you're on a starvation budget.

TYP,

The site http://tinyurl.com/eym5b will help get you up to speed on European trains. Also look at http://www.seat61.com/ and the BETS site mentioned by PalenQ.

PalenQ,
I did actually travel 1st class in the ES* because that was all that was available. It did not have 1 seat facing the window and I had a hard time deciding what the big difference was between those seats and 2nd class. They did pass out some soft drinks and candy, but that was not really important to me. I would rather spend my money somewhere else. I did notice that not all ES* trains had the same setup of the seats.

Why do you think folks pay signifantly more for first class if there were no difference?

Enough said! I base my opinion on 38 years of lots of European train travel - first class is ALWAYS more comfy than 2nd class - ALWAYS. That's why folks pay about 40% more to ride in it.

That's not to say 2nd class on ES Italia trains is bad - it's not. But first class is simply better. Sorry to disagree, sincerely PalQ.

OK...we can agree to disagree...although I don't know that we are actually in disagreement. Of course 1st class has some advantages over 2nd class...on the ES*. IMHO...the difference on the ES* trains is not worth extra money. I absolutely agree with you that 1st class is the way to go on any of the other trains.

But...I don't care about how many stars a place is...just want clean, comfortable and pleasant. I actually don't like really fancy places as a rule because you don't get the real feel of a place. It seems like the trip is more about the lodging than the experience of the location. I'm a little confused with your advice based on some of your earlier postings regarding budget travel and Rick Steves.

Slow Travel has an excellent section on using the trains in Italy. It's at
www.slowtrav.com/italy/trains/index.htm
Plenty of detail.

<I'm a little confused with your advice based on some of your earlier postings regarding budget travel and Rick Steves.>

Rick Steves is a luxury tour operator who also has good things on his web site about budtet travel. I am a budget traveler and i would go 2nd class on Eurostar trains except i always have a first class Eurailpass when traveling there - i'm over 25 so can't buy a 2nd class Youth Eurailpass and also am glad to have to go first class.

what i'm saying is correlate your train travel with your hotel - you and me obviously would always go 2nd class if we could save some money because, at least me, i have to - i'm a low budget traveler out of necessity and anyway like you don't care for the trappings of luxury.

but i was just answering the OP's question and still maintain that there is a significant difference in classes even on the Eurostar though as you say it may be less than on some other trains.

And if folks are paying $100/day or more for hotels as nearly everyone on this board does then i say treat your train travel the same.

I never pay more than $50-60/day for lodgings, sometimes much less and if didn't have railpass (which for my wide-ranging pan-European typical itinerary is the best deal) i'd go 2nd class as well.

PalenQ,
I think we are basically on the same page. My point to the OP was that on ES* trains, 2nd class was plenty comfortable. Actually I did pay more than $100/night everywhere (even up to E200 in Venice) for a double, but stayed in very convenient locations at small B&B's.

TYP,
If you can both manage with the one suitcase each, like you are planning...preferably carry-on size, you will be very happy you did.

Yes 2nd class on Eurostar trains is fine - the difference between classes, though it exists even on these trains - especially in room for luggage - is far less than on many older trains so 2nd class if fine, very fine i agree

On our last trip, we purchased tickets in first class on a non-Eurostar train. It was a longer journey (3+ hours), but I don't recall off-hand the connecting cities. First class turned out to be a small, enclosed 6- or 8-person compartment within one carriage. When we boarded, only our two seats were vacant and all available floor and overhead space was packed with luggage. The rest of the (2nd class) carriage was only half filled and looked so much less claustrophobic, so we ended up sitting in second class. The conductor who checked our tickets thought we were nuts, but we were actually more comfortable in second class than we would have been in first class on that train.

I choose between first and second class based on the length of the journey, not by an equation based on my hotel room rate. Three hours or more, and I choose first class. I also choose first class whenever the temperatures are high as first class is usually air-conditioned.

bookmarking for train travel.

Jean's comments remind me of some regional trains that are nearly all second class but have a vest-pocket first class section because nearly nobody riding regional trains go first class.

I have been on these too - and yes on these second class can be more roomier if the few first class seats are full. I've seen this in British trains a lot - sideline trains with such one compartment for first class.