go_laura

Finally am getting back to planning! Thank you all for your many suggestions, I have them in front of me as I begin to book lodging and get tix where needed. I'm getting hungry just thinking of the restaurants and markets, especially those Cordoba specialties.

Just a few follow-up q's at this point:
​​@maribel (and/or anyone else who knows) would you say the 4 patios in the San Basilio quarter are worth visiting in November? I'm having a bit of a hard time figuring out what(if any) changes in planning I need to make for the fall season.

jpie the bus you mentioned in Sevilla that runs along the river in a circular route, are you referring to a regular city bus or a tourist bus? (for this trip I'm sure I'll be using both types, just wondering which to look for.)

If anyone has a strong preference for train versus bus to get from 1 area to another, I'd welcome hearing about that too, as the only thing we know for sure at this point is we'll take a high speed train to Sevilla on the day we land in Madrid (we're now planning to end rather than begin in Toledo, for ease of getting to Madrid airport when time to leave).

Thanks again.

Maribel

About the 4 patios of San Basilio, no, not really as there just wasn't much to see when I visited this past February. One does have an interesting jewelry shop in the back where I could have done major damage. Pretty local filigrana patterns in gold and silver. It was the patio at number 20.
https://plata-cordobesa.es

What I really enjoyed, as did KarenWoo, was the lovely Palacio de Viana with its 14 connecting patios. Not only were the patios far prettier in winter but also one could see the stables and the kitchen during the downstairs visit (I didn't purchase the ticket for the upstairs guided tour). I walked to the Palacio since I had 4 days in Córdoba, but other visitors arrived by taxi. It's been declared an Historic-Artistic Monument, and I felt it far more worthwhile and atmospheric in winter than the 4 open in the San Basilio quarter.
Palacio de Viana - Palacio de Viana.
https://www.turismodecordoba.org/palace-of-viana#.

For my 5-week late winter trip, I took trains to all of your locations. Why? I had purchased a Tarjeta Dorada card for those 60+ from Renfe (can only purchase it at a Spain rail station, not online), so using the Tarjeta Dorada discount saved me a great deal of euros. Then with the card number, I was able to purchase all my train tickets on the Renfe app (or I could have done it at www.renfe.com)
https://www.renfe.com/es/en/travel/p.../mayores-de-60

If you don't quality for the Tarjeta Dorada, I would purchase your tickets in advance, as soon as they become available, as the fares go up as you approach your departure date.
With Renfe, the early bird gets the worm.
The AVEs, the ALVIAs and the AVANTS are quite comfortable and speedy.

The Málaga-Granda direct bus is cheaper (13 euros) and takes only 1 hr. 45 min. Not all Alsa buses on that route are direct.
https://www.alsa.es/ruta/malaga-granada

The only fares that always remain the same are the fares on the AVANT trains (Madrid-Toledo, Málaga-Granada, for example).

If you do decide to spend the night before departure in Toledo, I assume you don't have an early morning flight from Barajas and/or that your departure day isn't a Saturday or Sunday. The first AVANT train departure leaves Toledo on SATURDAYS/SUNDAYS at 9:45 am. The rest of the week the first departure is at 6:25 am, and the ride takes 33 minutes.
Then count on another 30 minutes by taxi (30 euro flat fare) or another 45 minutes by Airport Express Bus (with luggage racks, 5 euro fare) from Atocha rail to the airport. This bus stops at all terminals.
Just please be aware that some departures on the Toledo-Madrid train can sell out--they don't always, but it has happened to me twice. Toledo has become a commuter destination from Madrid. I would purchase those tickets at least a day or two before. I checked today to see if all of tomorrow's departures, Toledo to Madrid were still available and two afternoon trains are sold out.

When the tropical storm DANA came through last week, the Madrid-Toledo train service was disrupted.

I think jpie may be referring to the C3 or the C4 circular route. You can see these routes here
https://reddelineas.tussam.es/?lang=es#

Now, back to your planning! You'll have a wonderful trip, I'm sure!

Maribel

Laura,
I forgot to mention that I do belong to Alsa Plus loyalty program, as it gives discounts to those over 60, to earn and redeem points and the ability to change or cancel tickets up to 2 hours in advance of departure.
https://www.alsa.com/en/web/bus/alsaplus

Bus travel is also efficient, pleasant and cheap in Spain.

go_laura

Maribel that's so helpful, both the info for Cordoba in Nov. and the transport info as I am indeed in the 60+ category. We're thinking of possibly splurging and getting a driver to take us from Toledo to airport on our last day, for ease of minds and bodies. Our flight out is 11am so we want to be at the airport at 8. We're also considering either leaving Toledo around noon our last full day, and spending 1 night at a hotel in Madrid after all and going to a couple places we didn’t go to last time, or leaving Toledo that last evening and staying at an airport hotel.

And now a whole separate question (I'm never done when I think I am lol)...Since we (fortunately) have 16 days, we obviously need to be somewhere on the Sundays and Mondays. Other than wanting our last 3 nights in Toledo/possibly Madrid, we're completely flexible as to what order in which to do Sevilla, Granada and Córdoba. Are any particularly better to try to stay away from Sunday/Monday? For example, our original plan would have had us going to Sevilla 1st, Tues - Sat nights, then bringing us to Granada, for Sun, Mon, and Tues nights. Maybe that's OK because we-d arrive Granada sometime Sunday, could do Alhambra Mon., and by Tues. shops and tapas places would all be open again? Or am I way overthinking this (like usual &#128578 and it doesn't matter at all because all these places are cities that will have plenty open regardless of the day.

Muchas gracias otra vez!

Maribel

Hi Laura,
That's a good idea of getting a driver from Toledo to the airport for the peace of mind. We have the cabify app and use it to pre-order a transfer but within the Community of Madrid. We used it to get us to the airport for an early morning departure from our Madrid apartment, and it worked well.

As for an airport hotel, I tried that once and was hugely disappointed because I longed to be in Madrid in an area with restaurants, tapas bars, a lively neighborhood rather than trapped in a sterile airport area hotel with nothing interesting nearby. You might look at the Abba Madrid, the VP Madroño or the AC Avenida de America, that are more or less on the direct route from the city to Barajas airport. From either, it should take no more than 15-20 minutes tops to reach Barajas. That's where we have stayed when catching an early flight from Barajas. We know the neighborhood well, and it´s in the northeastern section of the Barrio de Salamanca.

Ah yes, the Sunday/Monday closure conundrum...
The only problem I have is Córdoba on a Monday because the following are closed: the Alcázar, the Julio Romero de Torres Museum (my favorite Cordoban portrait artist and my avatar), the tiny synagogue, the Casa del Sefardad (the Sephardic Cultural Center) the Archaeological Museum, the Palacio de Viana (which I love for the patios), and there's no bus to the archaeological site/ruins of Medina Azahara.
https://www.turismodecordoba.org/rep...602830235.4002

In Toledo the El Greco Museum, the Alcázar Military Museum and the Synagogue of the Transit/Sephardic Museum are closed on Mondays and the magnificent Cathedral doesn't open for tourist visits on Sundays until 2 pm but closes at 6:30 pm, and some monuments close early at 3 pm on Sundays.

Hope this helps.
.

go_laura

Yes, as always, all of that is very helpful, thank you so much for your generosity of time.

KarenWoo

Regarding train versus bus, I would choose based on which schedule works the best for me. We traveled both by train and ALSA bus when we were in Andalucia, and the bus was just as enjoyable as the train. ALSA buses are clean, modern, and air-conditioned with comfortable seats. We were given water bottles and cookies on one of the bus rides! A nice touch!

scrb11

Malaga, the main attractions for me were the Alcazaba and the Castillo de Gibralfaro.

I walked through both on the same date but they do require walking uphill so depending on how much you want to hike, you may do it in one day or two.

I didn't really walk out to the waterfront, but you can see it when you hike up to Gibraltar.

For the center, you can do a walking tour.

Granada is great for the ambience. So you visit the Alhambra, maybe also the cathedral as well. It's a beautiful area so there are for instance e-bike tours which go up the Albaicin and Sacramonte, which I didn't get to do. Definitely worth at least a couple of nights.

Loved Ronda as well. You can walk around the various miradors, not just at the main bridge but Puente Viejo, which is more to the East, where there are fortifications set out against the rolling countryside. Glad I didn't only do a day trip.

Cordoba I've only visited as day trip and admit haven't seen much beyond the Alcazar, Mezquita and the Roman Bridge. Probably pretty atmospheric at night.

Loved Toledo. Make sure to get out to the Miradors south of the city, across the river, for views of the skyline. May be worth visiting the Parador, maybe have a drink there, for the views. I stayed a couple of nights there but you have to take the bus into town if you want other dining options than eating at the Parador restaurants.

Maribel

KarenWoo makes a good point about the train vs bus. Sometime the Alsa buses have more departures, a better schedule, than the train. But definitely take the high speed train between Madrid and Sevilla. You now have two high speed train options on that route--Renfe's low cost AVLO with no food service, bar car, and no premium seating (like a low cost airline) and the snazzy Italian IRYO with 4 classes of service, so check both schedules and pricing.

https://avlorenfe.com/vlc/home.do?c=_JSDo
https://iryo.eu/en/train-madrid-sevilla

Málaga's Alcazaba does have an elevator (ascensor) but to find it you go to a separate entrance on Calle Guillén Sotelo 1, behind the town hall. You can purchase your ticket there as well.
https://www.alcazabamalaga.com/alcazaba-opening-time/#

michaelpianko

Itinerary 2 is the best out of what you listed. I only spent 2 nights each in Granada and Cordoba. Most travelers see Toledo as a day trip. One night in Toledo would be nice. Two nights might make sense if you are going to arrive in the evening, then have the whole next day, and spend another night in Toledo and then leave the next morning. 5 nights in Seville makes sense, because Seville has a lot to do; I only spent 4 nights in Seville.

Maribel

post #29,
I meant two more train options on the Madrid-Sevilla route in addition to Renfe's AVE, which has been plying that route since 1992.

progol

I also agree to take whichever transportation fits your travel schedule. We also started in Sevilla, took the train to Cordoba and bus to Granada and the bus was very comfortable and easy.

I would’ve started in Cordoba had it not been for the Patio festival in Cordoba. I arranged the order of our trip based on that schedule. HOWEVER (and I may be alone in this) I didn’t find the Patio Festival worth it because lines were always too long and we quite honestly, the views of the flowers around the city were beautiful. We also saw the excellent Palacio de Viana that Maribel mentions above.

We viewed the Mezquita twice. When we were there in 2015, the building was open to individuals but not groups at 8:30am. This (I believe ) was a time when the church was getting ready for mass and visitors were allowed entry but were expected to remain silent. It was an extraordinary experience to be walk arches of the former mosque, one of the most remarkable buildings, in silence and without crowds. I can’t quite tell if this is still allowed, but if it is, do make sure to go at this time. There’s no place that was so moving.

Maribel

Yes, progol, the early entrance is still allowed! Now there is a visit to the bell tower, that I don't think existed before. €3. Progol, beautiful photos as usual!
¨Monday to Saturday: 8:30 to 9:30 hrs free visit. Except on day of extraordinary celebration. Group visits are not allowed in this schedule. At 9:20 access will be prevented and the exit of the monument will begin.

I urge visitors, if they spend the night, after the day visit, to attend the evening sound and light show, "The Soul of Córdoba" (El Alma de Córdoba). The tickets often sell out, as you can see on the September calendar, with the date underlined in red, so one should purchase them online in advance. €20.

https://mezquita-catedraldecordoba.e...ma-de-cordoba/
https://tickets.mezquita-catedraldec...oul-of-cordoba

adlmllr

Maribel, thanks for the recommendation on the evening visit to the cathedral in Cordoba. We may have to make some adjustments, as we've already booked a private walking tour for the first morning after our arrival, which will include the Cathedral/Mezquita. Now I'm wondering if we should book the Soul of Cordoba for our first night in Cordoba, ask our guide to adjust the tour the next morning to skip the Cathedral, and then on our final morning in Cordoba go for the free access at 8:30.......Decisions, decisions!

Maribel

I really don´t know what to advise you, but the free access at 8:30 am lasts for only an hour and as progol says, visitors must be very respectful and remain silent.
I see it as an addition later after a regular visit (with guide or with audio guide) rather than a substitute for a regular visit. I see it like the evening visit to the Alhambra's Nasrid Palace rooms, as a supplement rather than substitute for the whole Alhambra visit.

For the Soul of Córdoba evening it´s a light, sound and image experience with headset in English (or several other languages) and takes about an hour.

go_laura

Thanks again, Maribel , KarenWoo , progol , jpie , and others whose names I can't seem to bring up right now, for all your helpful recs and advice. Two current q's, 1 on Sevilla lodging and other about Alhambra visit.

I'm now working on lodging and for our 5 nights in Sevilla, am considering the following - any thoughts?
1) Hispalis Casa Palacio
2) Torre Homenaje apartments (gets great reviews but am a little concerned about whether it's so central as to be annoying when you walk out door, which probably doesn't bother everyone but would us)
3) an air bnb that appears to be on Calle Sauceda off Calle Monsalves, stellar reviews but only 8 of them
4) air bnb where Calle Francisco Bruno and Calle Entre Carceles meet

For our Alhambra visit, I've booked the Nasrid Palaces at noon and lunch at Parador 2:30, figuring we'll do Generalife after lunch. Might need to backtrack then but am ok with that, I wanted to do palaces 1st so as not to be anxious about getting there on time. But does that sound like an ok interval between palaces and parador?

TIA as always!

Maribel

Hi Laura,
1). The Hispalis Casa Palacio is very near, as in half a block! of where I stayed for 9 nights this past March at the Apartamentos Eslava. It's a quiet but attractive, not a heavily touristed neighborhood at all, admittedly a longer walk from the sights (1.6 km from Cathedral/Giralda/Alcázar) but perfectly doable if you enjoy walking, and it's near some great tapas bars, in addition to Espacio Eslava there's El Pantera next door. You'll be within walking distance of my (and ekscrunchy's) favorite, Azotea and across the street, Tienda de Azotea, and also to Disparate on the Alameda de Hércules plus cafés on that very large square and the Seville dwellers' favorite, inexpensive tapas bar, Dos de Mayo. The church of Jesùs del Gran Poder is beautiful and one of the city's iconic churches. The neighborhood is called "San Lorenzo".

2). The Torre Homenaje apartments are very close to the cathedral, which means right in the middle of the tourist tsunami.

3) The airbnb is to the east of the Museum of Fine Arts, but here isn't very interesting dining, or an abundance of really great tapas bars near by. But a quiet area.

4. The airbnb where Calle Francisco Bruna meets Calle Entrecárceles is dead central, near City Hall and Plaza Nueva, and everything is super, super, easily walkable from there. This area is considered "Centro" but not in tourist central. It's a 6-minute walk from the cathedral.

About your Alhambra booking, it seems fine to me. It's smart to do the Nasrid Palace first, then lunch, then you can see the rest---the Palace of Carlos V (excellent museum on the ground floor), Generalife and Alcazaba.

Gardyloo

I'm coming late to this thread and may not have anything substantive to offer, save that some years ago we spent a few days in southern Andalusia in early March, so about the same conditions weather-wise, focusing on Tarifa and the white villages in that region. We had been to Seville and Cordoba (also Toledo) previously, and obviously what's not to love. However, on this trip we rented a car (from Gibraltar, which we've enjoyed a couple of times) and drove around.

This is ostensibly the warmest part of Andalusia, and it didn't disappoint in terms of weather. Sunny, warm (a little chilly at night but only needed a sweater/jumper) and oh, the scenery and places. White hill villages, golden sand beaches with people windsurfing and kite boarding, remarkable Roman ruins at Baelo Claudia, oranges in the trees... fantastic.

Vejer da la Frontera



Baelo Claudia



Beach at Tarifa


Jebel Musa, the southern Pillar of Hercules, seen from Gibraltar



Like I say, maybe off the table, but if you had some flexibility in your plans, it could be very rewarding.

Maribel

Gardyloo,
I love your photos, especially of the Roman ruins of Baelo Claudia right at the beach. It brings me back to our heavenly trips to Vejer, and I remember that you and your wife stayed at the Hurricane! The lovely people there saved the day for us when Vejer temporarily had no wi-fi for the day and we sought refuge all day at the Hurricane outside of Vejer for breakfast, wi-fi and lunch.

Laura,
If you do decide on the apartment #1 in the San Lorenzo quarter, it really isn't a long walk at all to the large El Corte Inglés on Duque de la Victoria (I did this daily),where in the basement supermarket you can find everything under the sun, and in the top floor Gourmet Experience you can find some really delicious pastries by Manu Jara.
After 9 nights, I became very familiar with the San Lorenzo quarter and felt so at home that I'm returning with my husband for 4 nights during Holy Week. But I love to walk in Sevilla and explore the different neighborhoods.

https://www.somoseldisparate.com
https://espacioeslava.com
https://azahar-sevilla.com/sevilletapas/el-pantera/
https://bodegadosdemayo.com
https://laazoteasevilla.com/es_es/

go_laura

Gardyloo I love those pictures! Certainly might affect our choice of daytrips. Since we're 1st timers to Andalucía, we're focusing this trip on Sevilla, Granada, Cordoba and Toledo. I sure hope to get back another time for a different type of trip.

Maribel thank you! I'd looked at Eslava apartments based on what you'd said before, but they were full. Usually choosing the 1 near there would be a no-brainer, that neighborhood sounds like just our cup of tea! But as we do need to limit our total amount of walking per day this trip to 4-5 miles, I'm a little concerned that we should save our walking for once we're at the sites, rather than getting to and from. Do you know if there's a bus we could take to the main sites, which we'd be happy to do? I'm keeping in mind too that since we have 5 days, hopefully a couple of them won't be as "main site" oriented and can be just for wandering. So am pondering...