My husband and I are planning a trip to Spain to visit my best friend who lives in Madrid in September. We also plan on spending a few days in San Sebastian and one other area. Right now I am thinking 3 nights in Madrid, 4 nights in San Sebastian, 2 nights TBD, and our final night back in Madrid. We would prefer to take the train and not rent a car. So where in between Madrid and San Sebastian would you recommend? I was thinking about the Rioja area to do some wine tasting and exploring, but I wonder how easy that would be without a car? Or possibly Burgos? We really enjoy exploring the towns,seeing the sites and taking photos. Thanks for your suggestions!

Lauren, we really enjoyed our stay in Burgos. Maribel's guide and Maribel herself provided excellent help in planning our visit. We were there May 2008 flew into Madrid and drove to Burgos immediately from the airport. After Burgos we went on to stay two weeks in the French Basque region and then back for 5 days to Madrid. Our stay in Burgos was for 3 nights at the La Puebla. We found the location excellent for walking around the city. Have a great trip. Deborah

Since you are staying with friends in madrid for only 3 days you probably won't have time to do any day trips, so Segovia would provide a good option on the way back from San S. I am not certain about rail connections, though.

Burgos is more equidistant, and may offer better rail options.

Hi lauren and DeborahAnn,
Just here to second DeborahAnn's recommendation of Burgos. This would be the easiest and most logical stop between San Sebastián and Madrid by train. You would have 2 Alvia trains, one departing at 8:32 am and another at 4:39 pm, and an Arco, departing at 9:02. All of these trains now go to the Burgos Rosa de Lima station.

We do wine touring in the Rioja twice a year (and are headed there in mid-March) but always by car. It's just the way to do the Rioja. So many of the spectacular wineries are located in small villages and in the countryside. And we like to take a minimum of 3 days to visit, a maximum of 5. In addition, there is no direct train service from San Sebastián to Logroño, the capital of the Rioja. Logroño's wine festival, Fiesta de San Mateo, will be going on around Sept. 21, which is always fun, but if your dates were to coincide, you'd probably want to stay in Logroño itself for the festivities. But again, you would have the problem of the train connection. And from Logroño back to Madrid there's only one daily train.

So, I think Burgos would suit your needs nicely for 2 nights without a car. In addition to the Rusticae boutique hotel, La Puebla, there's also the new AC Burgos, where we stayed last Easter week. Both the cathedral and the Monastery of Las Huelgas Reales are great sites to photograph! There's also great roast lamb! Nice restaurants, and in Burgos you can sample the Ribera del Duero and Ribera del Arlanza D.O. wines.

lauren,
Here are a few urls for Burgos-

www.turismoburgos.org
www.catedraldeburgos.es
www.turismocastillayleon.com

Another vote for Burgos! I was there for 2 nights and had enough things to do. The only sight that I didn't visit was the Cartuja de Miraflores since at that time most of the interior was closed for renovations.

I stayed at the NH Palacio de la Merced, which I really liked and got a great rate online of 90 Euros

I forgot to add that for some reason I didn't take train , but bus from Burgos to Madrid. Maybe it was faster? I remember it was an Alsa, non stop. Very comfortable.

Maribel, does the Dinastia Vivanco offer any bus tours from Burgos for Lauren to consider if she wants to visit a winery without a car. I know it certainly is not your typical winery but Ron and I spent several hours in the museum. I think we will always remember the massive octagonal wine cellar there. I was sorry that we were not able to dine in the restaurant. Deborah

hi all,
Cruiseluv,
I do remember you took the Alsa bus, and I think at that time it was much quicker than the train.
They've now put on some higher speed Alvia trains Madrid-Burgos that go to the Rosa de Lima station which was just opened in Dec. The Alvia takes 2 hrs. 30 min., but unless you can get one of those 60% off WEB fares, the Alsa bus would be less expensive. (now those Renfe super saver fares are a whole different thread, or should I say "novel"?)
The Alsa bus is definitely a good option.

The 3 hotels mentioned are all really fine. We actually were booked at the NH Palacio de la Merced, which I've often recommended, but we switched at the last minute to the AC since it had just opened (right across the bridge) and offered a terrific promotional rate (plus free mini bar for juices, water, sodas and beer, bathrobes and slippers).
I see the AC offers a great value 70 euro rate on weekends in Sept.

A Fodors friend just stayed at the La Puebla.

They're all nice options. Depends, I think, on the style you like most and the best rate you can snag!

www.ac-hotels.com
www.nh-hotels.com
www.hotellapuebla.com

It's great to know that they keep expanding the network of fast trains! Maybe one of these days they'll extend it to Galicia??

Hi DeborahAnn,
Didn't see your post while composing mine.

I really wish they offered tours to Dinastía Vivanco by bus from Burgos, but I don't think they do. But I'll do some digging. I've checked the Vivanco site, but I can ask at the tourist office when we're in Burgos in March. I've seen plenty of tour buses parked in their lot, but I think they're probably chartered bus trips. Vivanco has to be Europe's most impressive wine museum! I never allow myself enough time there, especially with the excellent audio guide, and I've been a half a dozen times now to tour, to dine and to shop at the excellent museum store.

What is offered now from Logroño is the Vinobus.
It offers 3 different routes but none includes the Dinastía Vivanco museum, unfortunately.
https://lariojaturismo.com/vinobus/

Thanks so much everyone, sounds like Burgos will be the best option. We'll save Rioja for our next visit when my husband or I get the courage to drive there! (This will be my third trip to Spain, and I plan to go back every few years!)

lauren,
I just checked Renfe vs Alsa for a trip from Burgos to Madrid, and the supra bus vs. high(er) speed Altaria take about the same time.

There's an Alsa supra (non stop) that leaves Burgos for Madrid at 8:15 and an Alvia train that leaves Burgos Rosa de Lima station at 11:27. So the only differences would be the departure time and the price.

Alsa bus-€25.50
Alvia train-€15.60 (60% discount WEB fare, bookable 62 days out; minimum of 15-non exchangeable)

cruiseluv,
It's hard to believe, but www.renfe.es has now fixed its glitch with US based credit cards (well, at least for today!) I was able to book tickets with my Visa and get that discount! Yeah, Renfe!

lauren,
Driving to the Rioja from Madrid is really easy. It takes about 4+ hours. And driving between the western end (Haro) and eastern tip (Logroño) is also a snap, plus the scenery in the fall (best in mid October) just can't be beat. So just let us know someday when you need help with a Rioja excursion by car. Going back to Spain every couple of years is a great plan! ><

Hi,

Good news about the Renfe website!!

Lauren,

Good luck with your trip. I'm sure you will like Burgos! Pls let us know how it went.

My husband and I are starting to plan our 5 days trip in October from Madrid - San Sebastian – Madrid. We will rent a car at Barajas airport. We are not planning to go to Madrid this time.
I am not sure where is worth spending sometime in the route from Madrid to San Sebastian. We usually like to drive in scenic routes. We both speak Spanish. We are gourmet food and wine lovers.
I really appreciate all Mirabel’s knowledgeable tips about wine tours in north Spain. It seems that Duero’s wine country is OK, but maybe not worth to stop by in such a sort trip. I understand Rioja’s wineries are a must go.
Thanks for any suggestion on our trip planning!
Lilian

Another vote for Burgos, before reading the advice of Maribel and Cruiseluv two fodorites that know what they are recommending.
My heart was in burgos.

Yes it is hard to believe that RENFE is ahead of Train Italia the Italian railway who still has the unpleasant
rejection of all cards but the Italians thus making it hard to take advantage of offers and promotions.
I hope they are reading this.

( PS to Cruiseluv, I lost your new mail. Please send it again TKS)