When in Spain think Mexico not Europe
Oct 5th, 2007, 10:55 AM
#81
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I think we should give Parrothead a break here. The other day there was a post from someone still in Europe ranting about how everyone has been duped by the media regarding how nice travel in Europe is. She proceeded to claim that anyone saying they have a good time traveling must be telling a lie, and in the course of the rant made it clear that they have not enjoyed ONE SINGLE thing on the whole trip. She couldn't think of a single positive, and insisted that anyone who does express positives about European travel is just not admitting the truth. Needless to say that poster was attacked by those who took offense with her trying to speak for them.
Parrothead's post is not like that. He readily admits that other people have different opinions (something the other poster vehemently denied the possibility of). And Parrothead has mentioned several things they enjoyed even saying the Alhambra was incredible. And he did say he "liked Barcelona and loved Madrid".
So why isn't a poster entitled to include a few negatives as well? Why must some posters insist that he MUST love every single thing of every place he visits?
I didn't get the Mexican reference and I think many will disagree with it, but surely he's entitled to have that opinion, isn't he?
Other people mention that some little village with a couple canals reminds them of Venice. I may not see that at all, but if that person saw a similarity so be it. He is entitled to and to comment on it.
Are we really not allowed to talk about the things that we didn't like about a place? I agree that giving ALL negative comments sounds like sour grapes and will probably bring down a lot of dissenters saying "stay home if you didn't like anything", but that clearly is NOT the case with this post.
Parrothead's post is not like that. He readily admits that other people have different opinions (something the other poster vehemently denied the possibility of). And Parrothead has mentioned several things they enjoyed even saying the Alhambra was incredible. And he did say he "liked Barcelona and loved Madrid".
So why isn't a poster entitled to include a few negatives as well? Why must some posters insist that he MUST love every single thing of every place he visits?
I didn't get the Mexican reference and I think many will disagree with it, but surely he's entitled to have that opinion, isn't he?
Other people mention that some little village with a couple canals reminds them of Venice. I may not see that at all, but if that person saw a similarity so be it. He is entitled to and to comment on it.
Are we really not allowed to talk about the things that we didn't like about a place? I agree that giving ALL negative comments sounds like sour grapes and will probably bring down a lot of dissenters saying "stay home if you didn't like anything", but that clearly is NOT the case with this post.
Oct 5th, 2007, 11:13 AM
#82
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<didn't get the Mexican reference and I think many will disagree with it, but surely he's entitled to have that opinion, isn't he>
yes of course, but to make such a Spain is Mexico comparison means he/she doesn't know xxxx from Shinola as the saying once was. I have absolutely no problem with folks otherwise saying exactly how they feel and not playing to the crowd - I applaud parrothead for that and everything else said in the post - it's a personal observation and doesn't rile me a bit.
yes of course, but to make such a Spain is Mexico comparison means he/she doesn't know xxxx from Shinola as the saying once was. I have absolutely no problem with folks otherwise saying exactly how they feel and not playing to the crowd - I applaud parrothead for that and everything else said in the post - it's a personal observation and doesn't rile me a bit.
Oct 5th, 2007, 11:26 AM
#83
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Sometimes I wonder how ignorant people can be.
Has anybody of our American friends ever looked on a map of Spain? Spain has, in order to communicate with other European countries, central European time but is located much farther west.
This means, the "natural" time is two hours later than "official" time. 9pm in Spain is like 7 pm in Iowa. And, given the incredible heat in summer, people don't have dinner when the sun is still burning, they wait until the sun has set.
BTW, France is one hour west of European central time. Therefore, they have dinner around 8 p.m. In Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Austria they are exactly in European central time and they have dinner at 7 p.m. UK has western European time and therefore dinner at 7 p.m. too (when it is 8 p.m. in France).
Sometimes it is as simple as that.
The only exception is Southern Italy. Southern (not northern) Italy has also late dinner times, due to heat and a nocturnal lifestyle which is a natural adaptation to heat.
My tip for Americans: If you are travelling to Spain, just set your clock two hours late - and you will feel like at home!
Has anybody of our American friends ever looked on a map of Spain? Spain has, in order to communicate with other European countries, central European time but is located much farther west.
This means, the "natural" time is two hours later than "official" time. 9pm in Spain is like 7 pm in Iowa. And, given the incredible heat in summer, people don't have dinner when the sun is still burning, they wait until the sun has set.
BTW, France is one hour west of European central time. Therefore, they have dinner around 8 p.m. In Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Austria they are exactly in European central time and they have dinner at 7 p.m. UK has western European time and therefore dinner at 7 p.m. too (when it is 8 p.m. in France).
Sometimes it is as simple as that.
The only exception is Southern Italy. Southern (not northern) Italy has also late dinner times, due to heat and a nocturnal lifestyle which is a natural adaptation to heat.
My tip for Americans: If you are travelling to Spain, just set your clock two hours late - and you will feel like at home!
Oct 5th, 2007, 11:31 AM
#84
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A hostale i stayed in in Madrid - i came back from a long day of touring, walking, etc. and prepared for the sack about 11pm - just as the family in neighboring areas starting cooking their night meal - and clacking, etc., cooking sounds.
didn't especially bother me but surprised me how late they started to dine.
didn't especially bother me but surprised me how late they started to dine.
Oct 5th, 2007, 11:34 AM
#85
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Parrothead
Okay, I'm very late on this thread but in the future you're in Spain and want something before 8:00 am, find some of the hot discos and follow the people who are leaving. They're finished with an evening dancing and now need something to eat.
Since I needed some breakfast before 8:00 am, I followed the dancer's food stop.
Wasn't Hemingway called Spain as the Moveable Feast.
Blackduff
Okay, I'm very late on this thread but in the future you're in Spain and want something before 8:00 am, find some of the hot discos and follow the people who are leaving. They're finished with an evening dancing and now need something to eat.
Since I needed some breakfast before 8:00 am, I followed the dancer's food stop.
Wasn't Hemingway called Spain as the Moveable Feast.
Blackduff
Oct 5th, 2007, 11:39 AM
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traveller, so true. I remember a fairly recent post where someone going to Spain was so concerned about the meal times. They had a child who HAD to eat at 7PM. When I suggested they change their clocks, they went into orbit, insisting that the child's biological clock would know it was 7PM. Huh? The child's biological clock would be telling them it was really noon or 1 PM depending on where they lived back home. Since you are in a whole different time zone anyway, you can make your body think any time you want.
Oct 5th, 2007, 12:59 PM
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laartista, Just make sure you change your batteries of that internal clock every spring and winter. 
Mine is more like a cellphone clock that adjusts automatically to local conditions as soon as I get off a plane so long as there is good food nearby. And spanish people have that nailed down for sure. Yes, I also keenly enjoy the focus on life and people in mediterranean cultures as one probably should?, instead of this constant rush to go from one thing to next, as fast as possible.
We need to give Parrot a break. She has heard everything and more. No more posts here from me.
Mine is more like a cellphone clock that adjusts automatically to local conditions as soon as I get off a plane so long as there is good food nearby. And spanish people have that nailed down for sure. Yes, I also keenly enjoy the focus on life and people in mediterranean cultures as one probably should?, instead of this constant rush to go from one thing to next, as fast as possible. We need to give Parrot a break. She has heard everything and more. No more posts here from me.
Oct 5th, 2007, 06:03 PM
#91
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I think it's interesting that the poster felt compelled to post this thread in the Spain section yet did not even bother to post one question about Spain in this section when planning her trip.
Perhaps some people enjoy the responses they get from posting attention grabbing titles then from sharing information on their trip.
One less Starbucks haunting American visitor to Spain is great with me!
Perhaps some people enjoy the responses they get from posting attention grabbing titles then from sharing information on their trip.
One less Starbucks haunting American visitor to Spain is great with me!
Oct 5th, 2007, 07:01 PM
#93
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St. Cirq, when Parrothead posted this post, he clicked Spain in the "search function". Anyone coming here only interested in Spain can click Spain and will only see those posts about Spain, including this one.
Cathy's point was that Parrothead did that, but apparently never posted another thread under Spain before going to ask for suggestions or help in planning.
Cathy's point was that Parrothead did that, but apparently never posted another thread under Spain before going to ask for suggestions or help in planning.
Oct 6th, 2007, 05:49 AM
#94
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"Wasn't Hemingway called Spain as the Moveable Feast."
Well, no, I think he meant France:
"If you are lucky enough to have lived in Paris as a young man, then wherever you go for the rest of your life, it stays with you, for Paris is a moveable feast."
Maybe you're confusing it with <u>The Sun also Rises</u>, which is partially set in Spain, partly in France.
Well, no, I think he meant France:
"If you are lucky enough to have lived in Paris as a young man, then wherever you go for the rest of your life, it stays with you, for Paris is a moveable feast."
Maybe you're confusing it with <u>The Sun also Rises</u>, which is partially set in Spain, partly in France.
Oct 6th, 2007, 07:43 AM
#95
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Thanks Beatchick
I guess I was wrong but it should have meant about Spain too.
In any case, it was a moveable feast while lived in Spain. Great breakfasts, very long lunches and even better, the restaurants which have a waiting line at midnight.
The only improvement about Spanish meals is having a generous business account.
Blackduff
I guess I was wrong but it should have meant about Spain too.
In any case, it was a moveable feast while lived in Spain. Great breakfasts, very long lunches and even better, the restaurants which have a waiting line at midnight.
The only improvement about Spanish meals is having a generous business account.
Blackduff
Oct 6th, 2007, 08:32 PM
#96
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OK, just a query for those familiar with Spain's principal cities: wouldn't large international hotels such as Hilton, Radisson, Marriott have restaurants with hours catering to all their clientele? So, though it wouldn't be wonderful local restaurants, shouldn't there be options for persons who absolutely, positively, must eat by 8:00? Just curious.
If so, that would be my recommendation to travelers who balk at late dining. (I personally don't like to eat right before I retire to bed - don't sleep well. But I'd rather move with the local traffic whenever possible, too!)
Patrick, I think you offered a good alternative to the folks whose kid needed to eat at 7:00 on the dot. I think a lot of parents try to make punctual dining a rule for kids, for lots of reasons. I suppose their issue was that the kids eat breakfast on rising, and then the other meals in succession at certain intervals - and in that case they'd have to sleep very late or get up very early to pretend they were on home time!
I'd still rather eat Spanish cuisine at their hours than go without - or sit down to some of what I've seen "adventure travelers" gobbling up!
If so, that would be my recommendation to travelers who balk at late dining. (I personally don't like to eat right before I retire to bed - don't sleep well. But I'd rather move with the local traffic whenever possible, too!)
Patrick, I think you offered a good alternative to the folks whose kid needed to eat at 7:00 on the dot. I think a lot of parents try to make punctual dining a rule for kids, for lots of reasons. I suppose their issue was that the kids eat breakfast on rising, and then the other meals in succession at certain intervals - and in that case they'd have to sleep very late or get up very early to pretend they were on home time!
I'd still rather eat Spanish cuisine at their hours than go without - or sit down to some of what I've seen "adventure travelers" gobbling up!
Oct 6th, 2007, 09:37 PM
#97
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Parrot head, I am sorry you had apparently such a bad trip and on top you were hungry.
I go to Spain often and last time I went was last March, to put my opinion in a short sentence if you ever go back to Spain try to plan your trip better next time because I think you missed a lot. I am really sorry that you could not do better.
I go to Spain often and last time I went was last March, to put my opinion in a short sentence if you ever go back to Spain try to plan your trip better next time because I think you missed a lot. I am really sorry that you could not do better.
Oct 7th, 2007, 12:35 AM
#98
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There are PLENTY of places ( even outside big hotels.. which i DOUBT cater much more to a much earlier dinner hour)to EAT..almost all day long, but to SIT down in a table-clothed restaurant for a long meal.. that would need to happen during the 1.30-3.30 period, or the 8.30/9.00 pm and onward time frame.
cafés and bars are open all the time and can make most anything, but most likely in the very small towns..after lunch it will be pretty closed up until probably 6 or so in the afternoon.
small towns are always more difficult than cities.
a shame the poster did not enjoy the country as much as others, itīs just the reasons given seem a bit trite for such an experienced traveler, which is what i imagine has spurred so much response.
cafés and bars are open all the time and can make most anything, but most likely in the very small towns..after lunch it will be pretty closed up until probably 6 or so in the afternoon.
small towns are always more difficult than cities.
a shame the poster did not enjoy the country as much as others, itīs just the reasons given seem a bit trite for such an experienced traveler, which is what i imagine has spurred so much response.
Oct 7th, 2007, 09:28 AM
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"We're going Puerto Vallerta in January for a "sunbreak" and I just hope I agree with Parrothead when our trip is over. It would sure be a pleasant surprise."
Artlover-I just returned from PV at the end of August, and that trip so turned me off against Mexico (I love the Mayan Riviera, btw) that I won't be back to that country for a long long time! I hope you find SOMETHING there to like-because I found not one thing! And keep away from the public beach, (other than to walk along the Malecon)-the touts that come through there, I've never seen anything like it anywhere else in Mexico-they are literally like flies. No mas, por favor!
As for Spain/Mexico-there is a lot of Spain in Mexico, but nothing of Mexico in Spain is correct-outside the resort areas of Mexico, the similarities to India, and parts of Calcutta, are amazing. Spain isn't one of my favorite places to go in the world, but it's certainly not my least favorite, and I loved Lisbon-there was so much to do and see there, the food so good, such great atmosphere, such history, the port wines, the Faro, the culture-I find it difficult to believe that someone traveling there could not like it.
P.S. Spain is not the second most visited country in the world, according to the lists I've seen-it's third-the United States is the second most visited country in the world, after France. Britain is 6th.
As for the meal hours, in the small towns of Italy, you're not going to find any meals after 2:30-3:00PM except sandwiches-and for many restaurants in the big 3, that's equally true. However Italian restaurants open earlier for dinner (anywhere from 6-7pm) than Spain, that's a fact-so that can be a bit of a problem if you are used to eating on a schedule, but you should have been well aware of that before you left for Spain, it is a well-known fact that restaurants open late, but tapas served in bars are there to tide you over.
Artlover-I just returned from PV at the end of August, and that trip so turned me off against Mexico (I love the Mayan Riviera, btw) that I won't be back to that country for a long long time! I hope you find SOMETHING there to like-because I found not one thing! And keep away from the public beach, (other than to walk along the Malecon)-the touts that come through there, I've never seen anything like it anywhere else in Mexico-they are literally like flies. No mas, por favor!
As for Spain/Mexico-there is a lot of Spain in Mexico, but nothing of Mexico in Spain is correct-outside the resort areas of Mexico, the similarities to India, and parts of Calcutta, are amazing. Spain isn't one of my favorite places to go in the world, but it's certainly not my least favorite, and I loved Lisbon-there was so much to do and see there, the food so good, such great atmosphere, such history, the port wines, the Faro, the culture-I find it difficult to believe that someone traveling there could not like it.
P.S. Spain is not the second most visited country in the world, according to the lists I've seen-it's third-the United States is the second most visited country in the world, after France. Britain is 6th.
As for the meal hours, in the small towns of Italy, you're not going to find any meals after 2:30-3:00PM except sandwiches-and for many restaurants in the big 3, that's equally true. However Italian restaurants open earlier for dinner (anywhere from 6-7pm) than Spain, that's a fact-so that can be a bit of a problem if you are used to eating on a schedule, but you should have been well aware of that before you left for Spain, it is a well-known fact that restaurants open late, but tapas served in bars are there to tide you over.
