ComfyShoes

Parrot,

I read your thread earlier today and have been thinking why most people responded to you the way they did. It is of course completely alright to not like a country, and also perfectly normal to say so. The question is whether you were thorough enough in articulating your reasonings, and whether or not you were respectful to others who may or may not be exactly like you, and may not care much for customs perhaps dear to you. Without commenting on the content of the two posts, I think the choice of your thread title alone is odd. Do you not agree? (No, I am not a Mexican).

Anyway, here's hoping you have a good vacation somewhere else next time around.

Parrothead

ComfyShoes,
I suppose I could have been more thorough but I wasn't trying to convert or offend anyone. I was just stating my opinion and the post was already getting pretty long. And honestly, for the life of me I do not see how I am being disrespectful to anyone. Do you think my comparison to Mexico is disrespecting the Mexican people or racist in anyway? My comparison wasn't about dialect, cuisine or religion. I only said think Mexico, nothing real profound here it just seems alot like Mexico as you drive into the smaller towns.

I did say I liked Madrid, Barcelona, Segovia, Toledo, the Alhambra and the Mezquita. For some people that alone is a full trip. So many people went ape s**t over my admitting that the Spanish eating patterns were difficult to get past. In my opinion some of the posts were way more offensive than anything I had to say.

As for the title, I can't even take credit for it. I actually stole it from our concierge in Toledo(who was Mexican). He was trying to find us a restaurant open for dinner on a Sunday evening and was having no luck. When he got off the phone after a half hour he lamented that he wasn't having much luck but would keep trying. I must have given him a funny look because he said to me "I'm sorry but Spain is more like Mexico than Europe". I laughed and that became a catch-phrase expression for us whenever something funny happened for the rest of the trip.

ComfyShoes

It's alright. I think specially your last para in this post puts the thread title in better light.

I should tell you that I really like Spain and have been there five times in ten or so years, but we are all different. I respect your opinion (and respect my own judgement and choices). So... my advice is to just move on and engage, perhaps?, in a bit more planning next time around for a vacation better suited to your preferences.

Best wishes.

Aduchamp1

For many Americans Spain does not have the glamour or panache of France or Italy or the recognition of England. Additionally, I beleive there is substantial prejudice against Mexicans in the US. To wit, a small number of Americans, including travelers, do not know the significant difference between the two countries.
When you combine all those volatile elements there is a visceral reaction to the comparison.

artlover

As others have pointed out, we're all entitled to our opinions. Actually, I wish I agreed with Parrothead. I lived in Mexico and am not a huge fan (though I wish I was 'cause it's a lot easier to get to) and have fallen in love with Spain and have been there several times in the past years. I also love Italy and France. To me, Spain is much more like Italy and France than anything like Mexico.

It's interesting how people can have such different reactions, but it's a good thing that we all don't like the same things--otherwise Spain would be even more popular than it is!

We're going Puerto Vallerta in January for a "sunbreak" and I just hope I agree with Parrothead when our trip is over. It would sure be a pleasant surprise.

MonicaRichards

Hmmm, I'm an early to bed kind of girl who likes to eat lunch around noon and dinner around seven and I never had a problem doing that in Spain. I can't seem to manage to stay up late so dinner at ten was out, but the tapas were EVERYWHERE and so yummy it was not a problem. I don't remember what we did for lunch but I also don't remember being frustrated about it so that must have worked out too.

kenderina

I promise, if I ever go to the States (which I really hope it happens someday) I've never ever will fault the meals schedule of the 300 million inhabitants of the States if I happen to stay hungry...that for sure will be my fault, not theirs.

kenderina

Forget the "'ve"

tomassocroccante

Josser, that's one cracking rhyme.

I hear Noel Coward knocking to get in ...

tomassocroccante

The first time I was in Italy it took me two days ( I was stubborn) to figure out that I'd better get my lunch by about 1:00 if I wanted any. And if it was shopping for lunch to prepare myself before noon, opr go hungry. Once I got it I learned to do my own relaxing at midday - no cafe every sent me away before I was ready, there is always a quiet spot to rest up from the morning's activity. Yes, shopping must be done before or after siesta, etc. But it's hardly a third world experience where there's nothing in the stores when they open!

I think one owe's it to oneself to figure out the drill in a new place - before arriving, if possible - and certainly, since one wants to eat, to be sure to know what's ahead. If the first day is all surprises, be a good scout and prepare for the next day.

It surprises me, Parrothead, that an avid foodie had no positive remarks about Spanish cuisine or other dining experience besides the unusual hours kept by restaurants and the populace. I'm thinking you do have some good experiences from the trip and just wanted to get the bad off your chest. You said you loved Madrid. What did you love about it? I haven't been but will be going in the next couple of years, as I've rediscovered a fraternity brother of mine who turns out to have been living there for 20 years.

Nobody is likely to love every place, or feel at home in it. The cardiologist wrote "If you can't fight, and you can't flee, flow."

Spain is its own world in some ways - many peninsulas are. It is still an incredibly rich culture and history, so I want to hear your plusses!

lincasanova

i find it a bit hard to believe that the "mexico" comparison was NOT meant to be derogatory, re: work attitude, siestas, schedules....

but more a visually SCENIC comment as you have re-stated.

"...I only said think Mexico, nothing real profound here it just seems alot like Mexico as you drive into the smaller towns."

Tere

Someone who says that travelled to 30 countries and states that Spain is like Mexico is because you aren't so well travelled!

And let me tell you that Portugal isn't all about Lisbon. There are many beautiful places in Portugal, as well as in Spain.

Anyway thank God people who say such things as travellers don't come back!!

mikelg

A comment from a (Basque) Spaniard:

Youīve visited a part of Spain (missed the north, as it seems) and didnīt like it. Fine, but your reasons for this disliking seem connected to your comparison with your way of life. If in another country, I donīt think it correct to get annoyed at their schedules. In the same way, when I visit the US I wouldnīt comply at your (bizarre to me) eating times. I would simply adapt. What you donīt say is that you can have dinner almost anywhere later than 11 PM, an advantage if youīre hungry at that time. Complicated in other countries.

Siesta: most Spaniards wish they could enjoy this healthy habit. We close at about 2PM and have two hours to enjoy our meals (it depends on the region). We do have nice, long, slow and mostly healthy meals (a habit that the speed of modern society is abolishing). A sandwich at 12? Thatīs not eating, thatīs simply survival.

Seville is a great place to visit, to enjoy its atmosphere, to visit its bars (a great part of our socializing is done at bars, not places to drink and get drunk, but places to meet friends), funny you didnīt like it much.

And the north is quite like Switzerland, but bigger, with beautiful villages and incredible green landscapes (as they have them in Mexico too, itīs not just a desert)

Then again, every individual has the right to have its opinion about his trips, and maybe you werenīt lucky in getting at the right places...

car

Parrothead,
You did not like Spain, big deal, you do not like the mexican alike spanish little towns and you do not like the local eating habits, sorry "insane eating restaurant..."
You are lucky you saved Alhambra in Granada from your refreshing and objective comments as St Circ calls them.

MissPrism

We close at about 2PM and have two hours to enjoy our meals (it depends on the region). We do have nice, long, slow and mostly healthy meals (a habit that the speed of modern society is abolishing). A sandwich at 12? Thatīs not eating, thatīs simply survival.

Yes, long may you continue to eat like that.
I think that "grazing" is one of the main causes of obesity.

mikelg

I most disagree, you donīt see many obese people in Spain. A slow, healthy food (mediterranean diet) makes you feel better and improves your quality of life. And if you can have a little nap (20ī) afterward, much the better.

MissPrism

I was actually agreeing with you that the Spanish way of eating was good.
By grazing, I meant the habit of not sitting down to a proper slow meal, but constantly nibbling.
On this forum, we often get people saying that they can't manage a full meal and asking if they can share courses.
I suspect that they have spoiled their appetites by snacking.
I am quite elderly and don't have a huge appetite, but I can easily manage three courses especially if there is a delay between them. I love to sit over a leisurely meal, sipping my wine and people watching between courses.

Filloa

As a Spaniard, I feel relieved: perhaps we are not so immersed in global habits as I had thought.
If talking about "work attitude" perhaps it would be interesting to know the fact that Spanish workers are, along with Norvegian and Italian, the ones who work more hours per week in Europe.
Perhaps the most important cultural difference is that we are not proud of it: most of us would prefer to change it for endless siestas or meeting our families.

WTnow

"Granada was nothing special. Ditto for the Mezquita in Cordoba."

This is the sentence that threw me,as it sounds like you thought the Mezquita was nothing special. But later it seemed that you were amazed also with Mezquita like most people.

I also was amazed that you had decided after just one night that you "never warmed up to Seville". I do understand how one can be disappointed in a city if you are all psyched up for it as that has happened to me. I loved Seville, but was disappointed in Barcelona at first sight after all the hype, but after staying a month my opinion changed.

I can see having a different opinion and honesty, but it was the way that you put things that made this post seem so odd and probably why you got reactions.

The fact that you seemed totally unaware of how Spaniards eat sounded like you did absolutely no research.

Your fast pace and lack of willingness to adapt to the wonderful culture that you were visiting seems to me the main problem.

As a foodie, did you read or bring Penelope Casa's "Discovering Spain"? That would have alerted you on how to enjoy Spain like a Spaniard.

We have spent 6 months in Spain this year and feel we have barely made a dent. We spent a month in Barcelona and barely know it, and 5 months in a tiny white village that feels like home, but still have so much more to explore there.

A day in Seville or Granada or Lisbon will not give you much of a true picture.

I disagree with your acertion about cities altho they are wonderful and should be seen. I think authentic Spain is found in the small villages and in the festivals and take time to get to know.

The warm Spanish people are wonderful at embracing all, even in small villages. Many villages are adorable, exceedingly clean and rich with history.

It is funny how different people see things. We drove part of that route from Madrid to Barcelona and just loooved it. What we saw is nothing like Fresno and we want to do it again and spend more time checking out the small villages there.

Most warm countries like Spain and Italy have siestas and it is a long tradition that makes perfect sense in that environment even today.

Many of us really value the quality of life in authentic Europe that is found in the small villages and long leisurely meals is part of that joy ( as well as kids being able to play in the streets). It is very anti fast food pace and more nuturing for humans and helps create community.


"seems so outdated in a modern country." That comes across so judgemental and American-centric and is ripe for a reaction. I think part of your problem was how you worded your opinion. Your other posts helped clarify some things, as I don't think you meant it quite the way that it came out.

Spain is a large and very diverse country and I think one needs more than a day or two in lots of cities to make a valuable opinion.

Yes, one can see where some of the things in Mexico began, but one can also see similarities with the white villages in Greece and Andlausia, see similarities with Alhambra and the Blue Mosque in Istanbul,see an Andalusian style village in Morocco, see a Moorish dance in Korcula, Croatia. The depth of the history is part of what makes Spain so fascinating.

Sorry you missed the true joy that is Spain. I am amazed that you went hungry.

We have fallen in love with it, but I can see that Spain, like any other country in Europe or else where, is not for everyone.

We will not go to Lisbon and Portugal until next year. I have heard so many raves about Lisbon that it will be interesting to see if those people or you will be closer to our take.

mikelg

Sorry, MissPrism, I obviously misunderstood you (probably due to not being a native English speaker)