What's the deal with Rick Steves?
Mar 21st, 2004, 03:12 PM
#41
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I hadn't really thought about the "live like a local" thing before. Why would the locals be living at a hotel, cheap or otherwise, unless their home was being fumigated, etc? Seriously, does he recommend apt or gite rentals and I missed it when I browsed through his book?
Mar 21st, 2004, 03:24 PM
#43
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Ah, ok. I was just re-reading the thread and wondered where that phrase may have come from. My mind sort visualized homestays and apartments after I thought about it. Was just reading up on homestays in another window, so I think that's where that came from. Thanks!
Mar 21st, 2004, 03:35 PM
#44
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Where on earth did people get the idea that Europeans only stay at cheap hotels and eat at cheap restaurants when they travel in Europe? Some of the best hotels and restaurants in Europe cater primarily to a European clientele.
And Lauren, sorry to disprove your theory, but really, I am neither envious nor jealous of Rick Steves. I don't like him, but I'm not obsessed with him or even hostile. But I do think if he's going to prattle endlessly about "living like a local" and if he travels to Europe for months every year, then it would be only polite (and sensible) for him to do his homework and learn more than a few phrases of the language of the countries he visits every year.
And Lauren, sorry to disprove your theory, but really, I am neither envious nor jealous of Rick Steves. I don't like him, but I'm not obsessed with him or even hostile. But I do think if he's going to prattle endlessly about "living like a local" and if he travels to Europe for months every year, then it would be only polite (and sensible) for him to do his homework and learn more than a few phrases of the language of the countries he visits every year.
Mar 21st, 2004, 03:53 PM
#45
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Some people think it makes them superior to trash whatever is popular or anyone who is successful. Rick Steves has his place in the travel industry just as fodors or frommers or lonely planet have their places. They all fulfill a particular need.
Mar 21st, 2004, 05:33 PM
#48
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Rick Steves does an excellent job with promoting travel to Europe and getting people to take a "World" view. Unfortunately, many of the 4 and 5 star posters here are too afraid to really enjoy a unique experience in a local, family run B&B or pension; they feel so much safer in their Marriott or Radisson. So they may look down there noses at hard working guys like Rick's opinions. Too bad for them. Rick appeals to the vast majority of first time travelers and gives them the knowledge to feel comfortable with their first adventure...that is a great thing and my hat's off to him.
Mar 21st, 2004, 05:54 PM
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Let me say first that I have never taken a Rick Steves tour and I probably never will. When I travel to see art, architecture, historical sites, I prefer to savor the morsels rather than attempting to gulp the loaf. I was loaned one of his promotional videos that did too many cities in too few days allowing all of 45 min of free time in Amsterdam. I was given one of his books which I read parts of in trying to decide how to approach the Louvre. He described bounding up the steps headed for the Mona Lisa and how one should "glance" left on the way up the steps to see The Winged Victory. If I don't see many things in my life I will feel very good if the things I do see I see well. I spent 40 minutes with the Winged Victory, as at least three tour groups stopped then went by. I like to follow my own schedule...I should say the schedule that evolves as we go. I never get to all I want to see, but that's OK.
Mar 21st, 2004, 06:27 PM
#51
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Well said, Lauren, Rufus and Operaman.
I don't see any guidebooks from the people criticizing Rick. As previously mentioned, I have used some of his recomendations to stay at some great places and save money.
BTilke, plenty of Europeans stay in B&B's and avoid overpriced restaurants. I have several great friends who don't waste a lot of money when they travel.
I prefer to spend time with locals which is why I don't take group tours of Europe. I don't want to be traveling with a bunch of American tourists.
I can take multiple trips every year because I don't waste money on 4* and 5* hotels. I am in the process of making travel plans for the next couple of years. Silly saving money? Sorry, have to stop here. Leaving very shortly for Iceland. My 3rd trip to Europe in the last 5 months.
I don't see any guidebooks from the people criticizing Rick. As previously mentioned, I have used some of his recomendations to stay at some great places and save money.
BTilke, plenty of Europeans stay in B&B's and avoid overpriced restaurants. I have several great friends who don't waste a lot of money when they travel.
I prefer to spend time with locals which is why I don't take group tours of Europe. I don't want to be traveling with a bunch of American tourists.
I can take multiple trips every year because I don't waste money on 4* and 5* hotels. I am in the process of making travel plans for the next couple of years. Silly saving money? Sorry, have to stop here. Leaving very shortly for Iceland. My 3rd trip to Europe in the last 5 months.
Mar 21st, 2004, 06:36 PM
#52
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His DVDs/VHS tapes can be entertaining and even useful, and have good scenery from the places you plan to visit. However, some of his budget tips can be a bit extreme for a lot of people, such as sleeping in a barn in Switzerland.
Also, I appreciate his packing light suggestions, but in his Europe travel skills video he has the same pair of khaki pants on in every country. They probably walked themselves to the Eiffel Tower by the time he got to Paris!
Also, I appreciate his packing light suggestions, but in his Europe travel skills video he has the same pair of khaki pants on in every country. They probably walked themselves to the Eiffel Tower by the time he got to Paris!
Mar 21st, 2004, 06:39 PM
#53
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It sometimes happens that the hotels Rick Steves recommend fill up with American tourists, as do the places he recommends. Also, the prices of the places listed tend to go up also (which is normal supply and demand, of course). He is aware of this dynamic, and has written about it, but I'm not sure there's much he can do.
In addition, his books have gone more upscale in the past few years, so anyone could use his higher-budget recommendations without the slightest bit of roughing it necessary. In fact, I would say the budget recommendations are often somewhat sparse and I often seek other sources for those (e.g. Lonely Planet and other web sites).
BTW, anyone who is unfamiliar with his philosophy and writings can just check out http://www.ricksteves.com - you will see a lot there.
In addition, his books have gone more upscale in the past few years, so anyone could use his higher-budget recommendations without the slightest bit of roughing it necessary. In fact, I would say the budget recommendations are often somewhat sparse and I often seek other sources for those (e.g. Lonely Planet and other web sites).
BTW, anyone who is unfamiliar with his philosophy and writings can just check out http://www.ricksteves.com - you will see a lot there.
Mar 21st, 2004, 07:24 PM
#54
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He's just one of many sources I like to use when planning trips. Actually, he must have changed his mind about the Dordogne at some point, because when we found ourselves headed there last May, his recommendations led us to our hotel in Beynac, a fabulous meal at La Belle Etoile in La Roque Gageac, and an extremely useful laundry in Sarlat where we left our laundry to be picked up while we spent the day sightseeing. His tip about visiting the caves Font de Gaume was right on, too. However, his book was only one of the sources we used...and I usually stay a bit more upscale in the big cities (Paris, London, Rome, etc). His tours look a bit too hurried for my tastes. We like to dawdle and hang around places we like, if our schedule permits it. I always tuck a few extra days in for serendipity.
Mar 21st, 2004, 07:52 PM
#55
You have to give Rick Steves credit for demonstrating that an unsophisticated inexperienced person should not be afraid to travel and absorb at least a few facets of a foreign country with an independent spirit. These travelers would have otherwise been sealed into insulated bus tours and served bland ordinary food at the approved stops along the way, absorbing tourguide pap on a tour that is at once both affordable and overpriced. To do this, Steve's unsophisticated personna does just fine with the few badly pronounced foreign phrases any tourist could learn in a few minutes. This has been a successful formula, and will continue to be so until there are no more newby tourists.
For experienced tourists and travelers, he reinforces the truth of "pack light" and "go sort of native" which is, of course, a great way to travel, although I have nothing against luxury when I can afford to do it.
I think part of the anti-Rick sentiment comes from the subliminal knowledge that every moment of a TV show is in fact staged, not at all spontaneous, shot over and over until it is glitch-free, and requires a significant number of well equipped staff members traveling along with Rick to get it all done. You are of course trying to beieve he's just decided to hop a train, but then there is a series of shots that require different camera setups, and someone else being here then there then here again with a camera. So, of course, this can't be done without the crew, and arrangements with foreign authorities and tourist establishments and everyone else who is "spontaneously" dealing with "unsophisticated" Steve. We know it's set up to look unset-up and the dissonance is a bit disconcerting if you want to think it's all real. Hence we get to feel anti-Steve. He is an actor acting the role of a non-actor.
Still, if his well-acted unsophistication induces more travelers to stop looking for Big Macs and HagenDaz as an alternative to pizza as their idea of what to eat in Paris, to venture onto a train, to hike or bike instead of taking a bus tour, and to actually look and think about a piece of art or architecture, the travel world will be just a bit better.
And I myself feel better about my awful French pronunciation when I hear him REALLY mangle a word.
For experienced tourists and travelers, he reinforces the truth of "pack light" and "go sort of native" which is, of course, a great way to travel, although I have nothing against luxury when I can afford to do it.
I think part of the anti-Rick sentiment comes from the subliminal knowledge that every moment of a TV show is in fact staged, not at all spontaneous, shot over and over until it is glitch-free, and requires a significant number of well equipped staff members traveling along with Rick to get it all done. You are of course trying to beieve he's just decided to hop a train, but then there is a series of shots that require different camera setups, and someone else being here then there then here again with a camera. So, of course, this can't be done without the crew, and arrangements with foreign authorities and tourist establishments and everyone else who is "spontaneously" dealing with "unsophisticated" Steve. We know it's set up to look unset-up and the dissonance is a bit disconcerting if you want to think it's all real. Hence we get to feel anti-Steve. He is an actor acting the role of a non-actor.
Still, if his well-acted unsophistication induces more travelers to stop looking for Big Macs and HagenDaz as an alternative to pizza as their idea of what to eat in Paris, to venture onto a train, to hike or bike instead of taking a bus tour, and to actually look and think about a piece of art or architecture, the travel world will be just a bit better.
And I myself feel better about my awful French pronunciation when I hear him REALLY mangle a word.
Mar 22nd, 2004, 01:18 AM
#57
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Operaman, rj007 et al:
May I politely remind you that I have been living in Europe for several years now, work for a European company, and travel extensively for business and pleasure? So I do have *some* experience with European travel and dining.
Of course, many Europeans stay at inexpensive or moderate B&Bs and eat at inexpensive restaurants. So do we from time to time. In fact, I was the one who introduced Fodorites to the the Number 11 (Artist's House) B&B in Brugge, which, so far anyway, has drawn nothing but raves from those who have stayed there. I also was the first to recommend the Rockfort bistro in Brugge.
But many Europeans ALSO stay at 4* and 5* hotels and eat at more expensive restaurants. By the way, expensive is NOT synonomous with overpriced. An expensive meal can still be good value.
What I dislike most about RS, his books and his followers is the way they cling to (and perpetuate) the myth that by going cheap, their travel is somehow SO much more "authentic" than those who opt for more expensive hotels or restaurants. It just ain't true. A few examples:
Here in Brussels, one of our favorite restaurants is Les Brasseries Georges on the Ave. Winston Churchill. No one would call it cheap or even inexpensive. We have spent more than $350 there for a Sunday lunch for 4 people, although that was a special occasion and the bill is usually in the $50 pp range. It is EXTREMELY popular with Belgians. The food is always excellent, the service always good. The atmosphere is great. It's a true locals favorite.
Another choice, L'Auberge des Maieurs, is somewhat less expensive, but still not cheap and extremely popular with people from our commune in Brussels (Woluwe St. Pierre). It's not even mentioned in any English language guidebook that I know of, yet it's consistently busy. Who's packing the place almost every night if not the locals? (Highly recommended for winter dining, especially, as this is an old inn, full of character, with a huge roaring fireplace and they do a great beef fondue).
When I had lunch at Meinl Am Graben in Vienna a couple of weeks ago, I spent 60 euros. It was not overpriced by any means, considering the quality of the food and service. The other people eating there, FYI, were speaking German to each other, so I am going out on a limb here and assuming that they are European, not clueless Americans throwing away their money.
Still another RS myth is that 4* and 5* hotels are soulless chains. Very inaccurate. There are plenty of family run 4* and 5* hotels in Europe. And being part of a chain does not mean that the hotel is just another in a line of cookie cutter establishments. We stayed at the Sofitel Le Parc in Paris last month (which is part of a FRENCH chain). Somehow I don't think all those people speaking French to each other at breakfast were American. And the hotel itself is one of the most unique in Paris, its terrace garden a prized treasure and the rooms very atmospheric and romantic.
If you follow the RS recommendations, in general, you are not off the beaten path. His paths are now some of the MOST beaten in Europe! Again there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. RS is fine for some people and he certainly has earned his place in the world of travel choices and guides....But enough with the delusion that the RS method of travel is somehow more "pure" than any other or morally superior.
May I politely remind you that I have been living in Europe for several years now, work for a European company, and travel extensively for business and pleasure? So I do have *some* experience with European travel and dining.
Of course, many Europeans stay at inexpensive or moderate B&Bs and eat at inexpensive restaurants. So do we from time to time. In fact, I was the one who introduced Fodorites to the the Number 11 (Artist's House) B&B in Brugge, which, so far anyway, has drawn nothing but raves from those who have stayed there. I also was the first to recommend the Rockfort bistro in Brugge.
But many Europeans ALSO stay at 4* and 5* hotels and eat at more expensive restaurants. By the way, expensive is NOT synonomous with overpriced. An expensive meal can still be good value.
What I dislike most about RS, his books and his followers is the way they cling to (and perpetuate) the myth that by going cheap, their travel is somehow SO much more "authentic" than those who opt for more expensive hotels or restaurants. It just ain't true. A few examples:
Here in Brussels, one of our favorite restaurants is Les Brasseries Georges on the Ave. Winston Churchill. No one would call it cheap or even inexpensive. We have spent more than $350 there for a Sunday lunch for 4 people, although that was a special occasion and the bill is usually in the $50 pp range. It is EXTREMELY popular with Belgians. The food is always excellent, the service always good. The atmosphere is great. It's a true locals favorite.
Another choice, L'Auberge des Maieurs, is somewhat less expensive, but still not cheap and extremely popular with people from our commune in Brussels (Woluwe St. Pierre). It's not even mentioned in any English language guidebook that I know of, yet it's consistently busy. Who's packing the place almost every night if not the locals? (Highly recommended for winter dining, especially, as this is an old inn, full of character, with a huge roaring fireplace and they do a great beef fondue).
When I had lunch at Meinl Am Graben in Vienna a couple of weeks ago, I spent 60 euros. It was not overpriced by any means, considering the quality of the food and service. The other people eating there, FYI, were speaking German to each other, so I am going out on a limb here and assuming that they are European, not clueless Americans throwing away their money.
Still another RS myth is that 4* and 5* hotels are soulless chains. Very inaccurate. There are plenty of family run 4* and 5* hotels in Europe. And being part of a chain does not mean that the hotel is just another in a line of cookie cutter establishments. We stayed at the Sofitel Le Parc in Paris last month (which is part of a FRENCH chain). Somehow I don't think all those people speaking French to each other at breakfast were American. And the hotel itself is one of the most unique in Paris, its terrace garden a prized treasure and the rooms very atmospheric and romantic.
If you follow the RS recommendations, in general, you are not off the beaten path. His paths are now some of the MOST beaten in Europe! Again there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. RS is fine for some people and he certainly has earned his place in the world of travel choices and guides....But enough with the delusion that the RS method of travel is somehow more "pure" than any other or morally superior.
Mar 22nd, 2004, 01:29 AM
#58
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By the way, my most general European restaurant recommendation: if you want to find an authentic local favorite, forget the guidebooks. Don't even look at the menus, what you really need to look for is the dogs! If you pass a restaurant and see a dog or two dozing under the tables, then you've probably found a decent local hangout. Europeans often take their dogs with them to dine, especially to their favorite places at home.
Mar 22nd, 2004, 04:41 AM
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I'd agree that obviously he fills a niche since he seems to have attracted a strong following. I thumb through his guide books, and I don't think they're for me. As with these sorts of things, it's always worthwile looking at a variety of guide books.
I've discovered some interesting biases -- he hates Capri (thinks it's the #1 tourist trap). He doesn't seem to think much of Scandinavia either. And he doesn't mention Geiranger and its environs in the sections on Norway. He touts Cinque Terre. Actually I don't think that I would have known about CT had I not flipped through Rick Steve's guides.
Contrasts this with Michelin Europe (I've one written in French published c. 2000) and the differences are quite illuminating.
I've discovered some interesting biases -- he hates Capri (thinks it's the #1 tourist trap). He doesn't seem to think much of Scandinavia either. And he doesn't mention Geiranger and its environs in the sections on Norway. He touts Cinque Terre. Actually I don't think that I would have known about CT had I not flipped through Rick Steve's guides.
Contrasts this with Michelin Europe (I've one written in French published c. 2000) and the differences are quite illuminating.
