babycakes19

From my last topic, all your answers have been extremely helpful as well as anticipated since we knew it was a lot, but wanted to get some ideas.

I'd like to clarify a couple of things and I have revised the itinerary. The reason we are going in and out of Munich is because it is cheaper to pick up/drop off a rental at the same location. For instance, if we picked up in Munich and dropped off in Italy, there is additional insurance and there is a $500+ drop off fee. In addition, we are not planning to stay "inside" these large cities, but rather on the outskirts and taking a bus/train into the city. So we won't have to worry about driving and parking in the cities. This will allow us to visit the city, while also having the freedom to explore the small villages and towns outside the big cities. Here is the updated itinerary:

Day 1: Arrive in Munich
Day 2: Munich
Day 3: Munich
Day 4: Munich
Day 5: Drive from Munich through Austria to Venice
Day 6: Venice
Day 7: Drive from Venice to Rome
Day 8: Rome
Day 9: Rome
Day 10: Drive from Rome to Florence
Day 11: Florence
Day 12: Florence
Day 13: Drive to Munich
Day 14: Leave Munich

Any thoughts or changes to the itinerary? Reason for the longer time in Munich is because of Oktoberfest, and also to give us more time to adjust to the jetlag.

Michael

Park in Mestre, in a parking structure next to the last train station before Venice. Parking is (or at least used to be) quite cheap in a multilevel parking structure. If you leave anything in the trunk, back up your car against a wall so that the trunk is not easily accessible.

jamikins

Is there a reason you want to drive? It is easy and cheaper and faster to take trains between these cities, plus it would allow you to stay in city centre, which I find has much more charm, more romantic, and allows you to stay out at night walking to restaurants etc without worrying about transit after dark etc. in our first trip to Europe we stayed out and used transit in and out and it was the biggest mistake for us. The amt saved staying farther out is eaten away by the cost of transit and the waste of precious vacation time.

Just my two cents, but I would drop the car idea, use trains and stay in the historic centre.

adrienne

I agree with jamikins.

If you plan to explore the small towns then you need to avoid major highways. Have you looked at driving times when you do this? Munich to Venice is 9 hours. Add 3 hours for finding and exploring a small town. Park in Mestre, wait for the train to Venice, finding your hotel is another hour.

This plan is almost worse than your original one to stop in more cities.

Without the car you could fly into Munich and home from Rome. Arrive at each destination relaxed, nap and picnic on the trains. You can always take buses from the city to small towns but with this itinerary you really don't have time to get outside the cities.

It's your trip. Spend your time and money however you choose.

cdnyul

Your plan is fine, as was the original one.

Germany is the best place to rent a car for a driving European vacation, and since beer is one of your interests, Munich is a good choice.

It does not take me 4 days to get over jet lag, but I fly out from Philly or Montreal, not California.

Don't worry too much about what WE think is romantic, or what is the best way to travel in Europe.

Enjoy the planning and the trip.

Mark

babycakes19

Jamikins: We weighed the costs of the train to the rental and here's what it will come out to: Train pass via Eurail for three countries for 5 travel days comes out to $420 per person for a total of $840. This price is only to go into the major cities and no small towns (no taxis/buses). Whereas the car rental is $520 (our credit card covers insurance if we pick up and drop off in Germany) plus gas and tolls comes out to $500. So for an additional $180 we have the freedom to leave when we want, go where we want and not have to drag out luggage around everywhere.

In addition, we aren't just going to the main cities, but also visiting other small towns/villages and maybe even go to the coast. We enjoy exploring.

Adrienne: From what I researched, the train rides would actually be longer than if we drove. By driving on the autoban/autostrada, we can haul a** by driving around 80mph. The train ride from Munich to Venice is approximately 9 hours whereas driving is about 5 hours in traffic. We will also have a GPS so we know how to get wherever we want to go.

Not sure how this itinerary is worse than the other since this has three less stops in the same amount of time.


Do most people take the train because they are afraid of the driving laws/getting lost? I can't see how a train would be much more convenient since you'd have to stick to a schedule and carry all your luggage around. Any thoughts or experiences?

kybourbon

>>>Train pass via Eurail for three countries for 5 travel days comes out to $420 per person for a total of $840. <<<

Your problem is you priced rail passes instead of actual train tickets. There are also many very cheap budget flights between cities.

>>>Whereas the car rental is $520 (our credit card covers insurance if we pick up and drop off in Germany) plus gas and tolls comes out to $500.<<<

I don't believe your credit card will cover you in Italy (the majority of cards don't cover Italy and Ireland).

When are you traveling and how many people?

Michael

Re: car rental. Have you looked at www.kemwel.com ? For a two week rental in July I found a current price of US$370 for a Peugeot 207, manual shift. Extra insurance may have to be purchased for Italy. The car should be large enough for two.

kybourbon

>>>By driving on the autoban/autostrada, we can haul a** by driving around 80mph. <<<

FYI - There are speed cameras all over Italy. They take a picture of the license plate and you get a ticket in the mail.

I see from your other thread you only have 12 full days in Europe and you want to spend much of it on the road?

You've miscalculated your car travel costs because you did not factor in the expense of parking this car everywhere you are going. You are not allowed to drive in any of the cities you listed for Italy (read about ZTL) as the city centers are restricted (traffic cameras control this also) so your car will be parked somewhere on the edge of the ZTL at an expense of about 35€ per day. If you do take your car out for a day while in Italy to visit another town, you will also have to pay hourly parking.

I would look at Smart prices on Trenitalia from Rome/Florence/Venice to Munich (overnight train) for your return. I'm sure similar fares are available on the German or Austrian websites, but I don't know what their discount is called. You have to buy from the country you are departing.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD

Check AirBerlin (Niki) for flights.
http://www.airberlin.com/en-GB/site/start.php

StCirq

I agree - you've completely miscalculated the costs. I don't see this itinerary as being much of an improvement over the original one.

jamikins

Use www.trenitalia.it to look at prices for trains in Italy. The earlier you book the cheaper the tickets are.

I use trains for this type of itinerary because it is the fastest and cheapest option for all the reasons given above. It allows me to go from city centre to city centre so there is no hassle or cost (in addition to the car) or wasted time communiting into city centre to enjoy most of the sites. Also with 12 days I would want to see the cities you have listed above and I dont think I would have enough time if I was driving given my experience with driving in Italy (have done it many times when we do countryside trips).

Autoroutes are fast, but not when you get stuck in traffic on the outskirts of cities. To get to towns and villages you will need to use the smaller roads which are WAY slower, but at least scenic, unlike the autoroute.

But like I said, this is just my 2 cents. Take what you want from it, if anything.

Happy travels!

jamikins

PS - it also allows me to fly into my initial city and out of my final city, leaving me more time/money to enjoy the locations I am in rather than spend that time/money in transit to get back to the original city.

downtownbrown

"Do most people take the train because they are afraid of the driving laws/getting lost?"

I can't speak for "most people," but as for me:

I have used trains and driven in much of Europe. I drive when visiting a lot of small towns and out-of-the-way places, since parking and traffic usually aren't problems with that type of itinerary.

I take trains, usually, when going from one major city to another -- for the opposite reasons cited above: parking and traffic. Plus, for the time I'm in the major city, I have absolutely no need for a car. So, in essence, I'm renting it for a period in which it will stay parked (expensively) and idle.

Your itinerary covers major cities, so it's obvious which mode of transportation I'd choose. But, hey, it's not my trip.

adrienne

Sorry if I wasn't clear about driving. You state that you want to explore small towns but driving on the autostrada isn't going to get you to the small towns; you will bypass them.

<< Not sure how this itinerary is worse than the other since this has three less stops in the same amount of time. >>

It doesn't have three fewer stops. It may have more stops as you have not mentioned the small towns you'll be visiting.

<< Do most people take the train because they are afraid of the driving laws/getting lost >>

Not at all. I've taken trains and I've driven in Europe. It depends on where I'm going. If my agenda includes cities then I take the train since it's so much easier and less expensive. If I'm visiting countryside then I drive. It doesn't bother me to get lost. And I'm not afraid of driving laws.

It's your vacation so you do what you want.

Sassafrass

>OP: "Do most people take the train because they are afraid of the driving laws/getting lost? I can't see how a train would be much more convenient since you'd have to stick to a schedule and carry all your luggage around. Any thoughts or experiences?"<

>OP: "In addition, we are not planning to stay "inside" these large cities, but rather on the outskirts and taking a bus/train into the city. So we won't have to worry about driving and parking in the cities"<

IMHO, some Americans drive because they are not used to using trains (We don't have such good systems as they do in Europe) and they don't know how to figure out costs, schedules, seats, etc. They think a car gives more freedom and are afraid of being stuck with a schedule.

So, people are not afraid to drive. Why do they take a train instead?

In many cases a car ties you down and limits where you can stay. Precious vacation time (and money) is eaten up by having to get back and forth from the outskirts of a city. Getting luggage to the car parked in a car park is a hassle.

It is easier and faster to train from city center to city center of Venice, Rome and Florence than to drive and park (and pay) outside the city center, then taxi or bus to your hotel or into the city if you stay outside of town. It is also lovely to stay in some city centers - nothing like waking up in Venice to only the sounds of boats and water.

Trains run so frequently, you are not really stuck with a schedule.

Average the total cost of the trip, and two days of driving are still costing a lot. The choice becomes seeing things through a car window for two days or experiencing more places near Rome or Venice - Vicenza, Sienna, Orvieto, etc. for two days.

Also, as Kybourbon said, you don't need a Eurail pass for this trip. The train from Venice to Rome is roughly 4 hours and Rome to Florence an hour and a half (more or less) - been a couple of years since I did it, so not up on exact times.

OTOH, driving is fun for some people; they enjoy long stretches of fast highway or are touring in a countryside area. Then it becomes a matter of preference rather than money or convenience.

kybourbon

>>>This will allow us to visit the city, while also having the freedom to explore the small villages and towns outside the big cities.<<<

No, with only 1 day in Venice, 2 days in Rome, 2 days in Florence, you don't have time to explore other towns. You don't even have time to explore Venice/Florence/Rome.

>>>Do most people take the train because they are afraid of the driving laws/getting lost?<<<

Most of us have been to Europe multiple times and have rented cars and used the trains. Had you asked before booking flights, you would have been advised to fly into Munich and home from Italy. This would have saved you money as the open jaw flight cost would not be much different than r/t Munich. It also saves you from wasting a day of your very short vacation going back to Munich (big loss in time/value there). You also would have been advised to price trains on each countries website (your trip is too far off to book this yet as most trains only book 90-120 days in advance). You can book fast trains between Rome/Florence, Florence/Venice for as little as 9€.

Most of us are also familiar with driving laws as we have driven in the various countries. I'm wondering how much experience you have driving in Europe and how familiar you are with the traffic laws in Germany/Austria/Italy? Do you even know European road signs? Do you know things such as needing a vignette to drive on the highways in Austria? To assume people are afraid of driving laws is incorrect. It's not the most cost effective or most efficient travel for your itinerary.

Since you have already booked your flights, your best itinerary would be to travel on to somewhere on arrival day (Innsbruck? Verona?) as you will be too tired to do much that day. Keep all of your Munich stay at the end of the trip and rent your car then. This saves time by not having to figure out hotel locations, checking in and out and transport within Munich two times.