My boyfriend and I are going on a two week trip this year in late September through early October. It will be our first time in Europe. We already booked our tickets where we will fly in and out of Munich. We have an idea of all the places we want to hit up, but I thought I would throw our ideas out there and see if anyone has any advise.

We plan to rent a car and do our entire trip in a car so we have more freedom to go where and when we please. That way we don't have to rely on train schedules and what not. We will be getting the car rental in Munich and dropping off in Munich, even thought we are going to multiple countries. We are aware of the required insurance and international driver's license for Italy, so that's not an issue for us.

We are planning to stay at bed and breakfasts or a private room in a house/apartment so we can get the full European experience and learn some culture along the way. I know this is a lot (as most newbs do), but I wanted to get other thoughts on this itinerary.

Day 1: Arrive in Munich
Day 2: Munich
Day 3: Munich
Day 4: Drive from Munich through Austria to Venice
Day 5: Venice 1/2 day / Drive from Venice to Rome
Day 6: Rome
Day 7: Rome / day drive to Pompeii
Day 8: Drive from Rome to Florence
Day 9: Florence
Day 10: Drive to Pisa 1/2 day / Drive to Genoa
Day 11: Genoa / Drive to Zurich
Day 12: Zurich
Day 13: Drive to Munich
Day 14: Leave Munich

Now that you have an idea of what we want to do, let the comments roll in!!

1/2 day in Venice and one day in Rome and one day in Florence IMO is not enough and too rushed - you will be driving most of the time - to get quickest between those cities you will have to use the autostrada - boring freeways where you really see little of the countryside - especially on ones with windblocks.

Taking side roads thru the countryside is just not possible with this itinerary and thus instead of blasting from one city to another do consider taking the train - city center to city center.

Cars a liability in those big Italian towns - most do not even let private vehicles into their city centers.

So my advice is to either scratch some cities and then do a real drive thru the countrside - like in Tuscany - again you have all-day marathon drives between cities - in that case take the train IMO or re-tool and do a trip where a car will be an advantage, not a disadvantage like it is just in big cities, where parking can even be hard to find and expensive if you do - most B&Bs or even hotels do not offer parking - leaving stuff in a car at night at times invites theft.

Cars are great for leisurely traveling between bases thru side road and the countryside but IME a drag if just doing all-day marathon trips on freeways to mecca tourist cities like you have planned.

Others no doubt will have advice and comments, so I'll just take a piece or two.

Do I understand correctly that you're going to spend a half-day in Venice? I probably wouldn't bother. First of all, you're going to have to find someplace to park the car, and then get transportation into the city (no cars in Venice). And then of course reverse the trip when you leave. Now, if you have the attitude that seeing Venice for only a few hours is better than not seeing Venice at all, then go with it. It wouldn't be my choice.

You may know that the drive from Rome to Pompeii is about 300 miles round trip. That's a long day, combined with touring the site.

Generally, I'd consider cutting one or two places -- maybe Genoa and Zurich -- and a give yourself more time in other places, like Venice.

If learning culture means the driving habits, then your itinerary accomplishes the goal well. But as previous poster mentioned, you have limited time out of your car outside your sleeping time. If your expectation of culture takes place outside the car, then your have allocated little time for this.

I know friends whose itinerary resembles this. But his objective is to drive all day from the morning to the evening, so what he does matches his objectives.

Use http://www.viamichelin.com/ or google maps to grasp how much time you will be spending in your car. These are usually optimistic estimates.

This isn't an itinerary; it's a road rally. You can't even take a car into those Italian cities. 1/2 day in Venice is a waste of time, as are a day each in Florence and Rome, especially as you'll have to leave the car outside and make your way in to see anything. Fuel and tolls and parking will add up to a small fortune.

You've left absolutely no time to "learn some culture along the way." You'll be inside a speeding steel trap for a full two weeks. I would start over, limit yourself to 5 or 6 destinations, and take trains.

StCirq, love the car rally description! So true.

For what it's worth, I know a few people who've spent less than a day in Venice and the one thing they have in common is that they hated it. I think you need a few days minimum in Venice to be able to even begin to understand it.

I am sorry but you need big help on this one---you are making all of the novice mistakes.
You have 12 days to see anything---I would pick a max of 4 destinations. Since Munich is the given, I would make your 4 destinations Munich, Salzburg area, south Bavaria, and Venice. Perhaps a stop in Verona on your way to Venice. Do not even think about a car in Florence or Rome.

Save Italy for when you have another 2 weeks.

consider going one way from Munich by train and flying back from Rome - then you could have a few days at least in Venice and Florence and three days or so for Rome and could even take the train to Naples and see Pompeii on a day trip - or retool itinerary to make it nice to have a car - for lots of great stuff on European trains I always spotlight these fantastic sites - www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.seat61.com.

Americans naturally think of cars when traveling but your proposed itinerary - long distances between large tourist cities is just not sensible by car - it will be a complete hassle - alternatively design a car trip thru some countryside where cars are useful.

I agree with the above. Too many destinations.

Why don't you take the overnight train to from Munich to Rome, see Pompei as a day trip from Rome, take the train to Venice, the train to Florence, see Pisa on the way to Genova by train, and fly to Munich from Genova? (Several flights every day).

I don't think you will have more freedom driving because of parking and other issues. The train will actually be faster than what you can drive. You will not see anymore from the highway then you will from the train -- in fact, for the stretch between Pisa and Genoa, the train runs along the seaside while most of the road goes through tunnels.

Not to mention you can eat on the train, sleep on the train, use the bathroom on the train, and you end up right in the middle of town, not outside the town, looking for parking.

If you took my suggestion, it would free up some days and you could rent a car in Italy and do some truly scenic driving around Tuscany (do 2-3 day loop from Florence through rural Tuscan wine country and back up to Pisa and drop off the car, continue by train to Genova).

So I suggest:

Day 1: Arrive in Munich
Day 2: Munich
Day 3: Munich -- overnight train to Rome
Day 4: Rome
Day 5: Rome
Day 6: Rome Day trip to Pompei
Day 7: Rome/Venice
Day 8: Venice
Day 9: Florence
Day 10: Rent car Florence -- rural Tuscany
Day 11: Rural Tuscany
Day 12: Pisa- Genova by train (or scenic beach town near Genoa)
Day 13: Fly to Munich from Genova in afternoon
Day 14: Leave Munich

Something like that

Looking over that itinerary, I think you might have more fun if you spent the night in Naples after seeing Pompei. Also, your original itinerary didn't give you much time in Florence, so you could see Florence -- as many people do -- by storing your luggage in the train station, seeing the town, and then getting a car rental at the end of the day and heading out to begin your road trip through rural Tuscany.

So revised:

Day 1: Arrive in Munich
Day 2: Munich
Day 3: Munich -- overnight train to Rome
Day 4: Rome
Day 5: Rome
Day 6: Rome/Pompei/Naples
Day 7: Naples/Venice
Day 8: Venice
Day 9: Florence (stow luggage in station), rent car, drive to Chianti farm
Day 10: Rural Tuscany (Montalcino, Montepulciano, San Quirico d'Orcia)
Day 11: Rural Tuscany (San Gimignano, Volterra)
Day 12: Pisa (drop off car)- Genova by train (or scenic beach town near Genoa)
Day 13: Morning in Genova (stow luggage in Brignole station) fly out afternoon to Munich
Day 14: Leave Munich

I hate to be discouraging - since we are big advocates of road trips and often do them.

BUT, this works when you pick up the car leaving the first anchor city and drop it when arriving at the last anchor city. In between we visit some smaller cities, some little towns and countryside. You are just going from one large city to another - most of which have very limited parking possible in a garage on the outskirts. So in effect, you are paying however much per day for car rental, plus gas plus tolls plus possibly 30 euros per night parking (only hotels in the countryside may have free parking) - when traveling by train would be faster, easier and cheaper.

Separately, you are not giving yourself the time to actually see anything - you will just have long days of driving and very limited time actually sightseeing.

And making a big circle back to Munich is just wasting more of your limited time.

IMHO for this trip you should have 4 hotels - no more - and limit yourself to what you REALLY want to see. If you want to do some driving - then pick a rural area - Tuscany or southern Germany or wherever, but spend 3 or 4 days there from one central hotel.

This is really a case where less is more.

OP - do not be discouraged by the remarks you requested as they all unanimously critique your plans as being unrealistic and this is often the case of folks going to Europe for the first time - they think they are used to American habits of driving between cities and here cars in cities are fine - they are not in most of the cities you have planned.

We are trying to give sincere advice that such a trip would not be pleasurable but a sheer nightmare. Retool or take the train and even then just one way, expanding time in places like the Italian cities.

Two weeks would be a nice trip to Italy -or- a nice trip to southern Germany, Switzerland and a little of Austria. I don't think it's enough time for all four even if you drop the car and use trains.

IMO, goldenautumn's suggested itinerary is the closest to realistic, but I would tweak it further.

Day 1. Arrive Munich, fly to Naples.
Day 2. Pompeii/Naples
Day 3. Train to Rome
Day 4. Rome
Day 5. Train to Orvieto, pick up rental car and stow luggage in the trunk while you have lunch and stroll the town before driving to base in Tuscany.
Day 6. Explore/drive Tuscany.
Day 7. Explore/drive Tuscany, return car at Siena, train to Florence.
Day 8. Florence
Day 9. Day trip by train to Pisa/Lucca.
Day 10. Train to Venice
Day 11. Venice
Day 12. Train or fly Venice to Munich.
Day 13. Munich
Day 14. Fly home

However, if it were my trip, I'd skip Pompeii as it's just too far south for the time you have. Fly Munich-Rome instead and add the day you would have spent in Pompeii to whatever destination appeals to you most in the existing itinerary. I wouldn't add another destination in place of Naples/Pompeii.

are your plane tickets non-refundable? Why go in and out of Munich when you want to explore so much? What are the spots you have to "hit"? That would help put your travel plans in perspective.

I think you have too many days in Munich, given that most of what you want to see is in Italy. Otherwise nothing wrong with your plan.

Europeans love their cars as much as Americans do, and having a car is the best way to enjoy and explore your own corners of Europe. Taking planes and trains and dragging luggage and having to pack and unpack every night is not my idea of fun.

FWIW, I would drop Genoa, and replace it with San Remo, spend a day driving up into the mountains for the breathtaking scenery. Nice and Monte Carlo are not far away.

I would also add more time in Florence (read the Agony and Ecstasy and decide)



Mark

All your answers have been extremely helpful as well as anticipated since we knew it was a lot, but wanted to get some ideas.

I'd like to clarify a couple of things and I have revised the itinerary. The reason we are going in and out of Munich is because it is cheaper to pick up/drop off a rental at the same location. For instance, if we picked up in Munich and dropped off in Italy, there is additional insurance and there is a $500+ drop off fee. In addition, we are not planning to stay "inside" these large cities, but rather on the outskirts and taking a bus/train into the city. So we won't have to worry about driving and parking in the cities. This will allow us to visit the city, while also having the freedom to explore the small villages and towns outside the big cities. Here is the updated itinerary:

Day 1: Arrive in Munich
Day 2: Munich
Day 3: Munich
Day 4: Munich
Day 5: Drive from Munich through Austria to Venice
Day 6: Venice
Day 7: Drive from Venice to Rome
Day 8: Rome
Day 9: Rome
Day 10: Drive from Rome to Florence
Day 11: Florence
Day 12: Florence
Day 13: Drive to Munich
Day 14: Leave Munich

Any thoughts or changes to the itinerary? Reason for the longer time in Munich is because of Oktoberfest, and also to give us more time to adjust to the jetlag.

Oktoberfest to me is at best a half-day affair - same ole same old and lots of drunks walking about Munich - at times obnoxious drunks waving their regional gear around

Florence to Munich is a long drive - take a day off Munich somewhere and stop say in Innsbruck or Salzburg or Verona or any fine place in between.

have you done any checking of how far this all is and how long it's going to take you?

not just the mileage [which will be bad enough] but fighting through the traffic to the city centres or the extra time it'll take you on public transport to get to those centres because you've had to leave your car at the edge to avoid the ZTLs. [traffic limitation zones].

actually, Venice is relatively easy - you just leave the car in a garage at the piazzale Roma and get on the vaporetto like everyone else, but Rome and Florence are nightmares to drive in, and parking is very expensive.

if you are determined to do this, i would rejig the trip, so as to put most of the Munich nights at the end [which I would not book apart from the last one] and drop Rome - don't get me wrong, i love it, but it just doesn't fit with a road trip.

then I would allow a night between Munich and venice - if you're going to do a road trip, why rush the road bit?] and consider driving down through the dolomites via Cortina- which won't add that much to the time, but would enhance the trip.

After Venice, i would take a leisurely trip over the Florence [consider staying in Fiesole which is connected to Florence by a bus that takes about 30 minutes] and then allow 2-3 days to get back to Munich - if you arrived too early you could overnight in Fuessen, for example.

it follows that I'm suggesting that you don't book everywhere in advance - you would really have to in Venice, and for your first and last nights in Munich, but apart from that, you should really have no problem finding accommodation for 2 people in late September/early oct, and pre-booking everywhere and a driving holiday are contradictory, aren't they?

so this would give you the following:

Day 1: Arrive in Munich
Day 2: Munich
Day 3: drive to Dolomites
Day 4: Arrive Venice
Day 5: Venice
Day 6: Venice
Day 7: Drive from Venice to ? [Padua, Ravenna, Modena, Chianti???]
Day 8: Tour
Day 9: Tour
Day 10: Arrrive [near] Florence
Day 11: Florence
Day 12: leave - head north
Day 13: Drive to Munich
Day 14: Leave Munich

in fact, this would make a much better trip if you forgot about Florence too, and just toured northern Italy - have a look at a map and see what I mean!

I'm curious. Does this car rental come with unlimited miles? Your basic itinerary (Munich-Venice-Rome-Florence-Munich) without ANY wandering is over 2,000 kms.

BTW, viamichelin.com estimates your driving costs (tolls, petrol) at over 400 euros for the basic itinerary. Add about 10 nights of overnight parking fees (perhaps 250 euros total), and you're easily up 650 euros over the rental cost. FYI, train fares for two people in 2nd class for the same basic itinerary would be about 640 euros (without pursuing any possible discounts).