sylvia3

"Now put up or shut up."
Bite me, dear. You are a self-aggrandizing bully, and I have no interest in you, your wife, your watches, or your advice. And I would NEVER post a photo of myself on the internet; why you think I would rise to your silly bait is incomprehensible.

Wondering what's wrong, exactly, with a "tour bus" or tours: it's the way my mother-in-law (in her 90s) did it until a year or so ago, and she saw quite a bit of the world that she would never have been able to as an elderly, movement-restricted widow. I must say, the more I read your words, the more convinced I am that you are, indeed, a pretentious, self-serving...donkey.

wunderbar2

Amazing how one persons question asking for advice turns into a pis...g match between adults.

immimi

Note that sommelier has two 'm's...even in Ottawa.

Tulips

Sylvia; your NB shoes are perfect, do wear them. You'll see lots of New Balance in Italy, not just on the tourists.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...alk-FLATS.html

Long skirts are great, I love them in summer. Comfortable, and you won't have a problem visiting churches.

Peter_S_Aus

Dulcie wrote << The ONLY real reason anyone needs to be carrying more than 25lbs. (and I'm being generous using that number) of luggage is because they don't THINK they can dress appropriately or manage to travel for a week with less than that. That's the elephant in the room historytraveler that makes them all go crazy when I suggest they can travel with far less. >>

Two months in Venice, my wife and I. About 85 pounds in total of luggage. Doing nicely.

annhig

Thanks, all; I was beginning to get paranoid about having to worry how I was dressed instead of looking forward to the adventure. The New Balance walkers, skirts, and pashminas are a go>>

sylvia- never get paranoid about what's written here. What do we know? [as the above thread proves, some of us know more than others think they know, and yet others clearly know nothing at all].

aliced - you are very sensible to ensure that you can carry your own luggage when on a tour. How have you found them? as dulcius has proved, there is an often unreasonable bias here against tours. Some of the criticisms of some tours is i think well-founded, but others seem to be reasonable, and they are certainly popular. What do you like about them?

peter - that's one normal size suitcase each, [25kgs] by my estimation. Hardly excessive for 2 months. fie on you for not getting it all into a knotted handkerchief tied to a stick!

traveller1959

Interesting what a thread evolves from a simple question about the weather.

bvlenci

If you go to Bucharest to get dental implants, you're a traveler.

If you go to Omaha to visit your aged granny, you're a traveler.

If you go to Navrongo to vaccinate children against polio, you're a traveler.

If you go to Fairbanks to sell freezers to Eskimos, you're a traveler.

If you go to Geneva to attend a conference on hot air, you're a traveler.

Pretty much all of the rest of us are tourists; let's not kid ourselves.

annhig

and what's WRONG with being a tourist?

colduphere

The pecking order is explorer on top, then traveller, then finally tourist. Ann try being on top for once.

Peter_S_Aus

tourist
ˈtʊərɪst/
noun
1.
a person who is travelling or visiting a place for pleasure.
"the pyramids have drawn tourists to Egypt"
synonyms: holidaymaker, traveller, sightseer, visitor, excursionist, backpacker, globetrotter, day tripper, tripper; More
antonyms: local
2.
BRIT.
a member of a touring sports team.
"Worcestershire have beaten the tourists with five wickets to spare"
verbrare
verb: tourist; 3rd person present: tourists; past tense: touristed; past participle: touristed; gerund or present participle: touristing
1.
travel as a tourist.
"American families touristing abroad"

traveller
ˈtrav(ə)lə/
noun
1.
a person who is travelling or who often travels.
"thousands of air travellers were left stranded"
synonyms: passenger, tourist, tripper, tourer, journeyer, voyager, excursionist, holidaymaker, sightseer, visitor, globetrotter, jet-setter; backpacker, pilgrim, gadabout; rover, wanderer, explorer, discoverer, scout, surveyor, reconnoitrer, prospector; commuter, fare payer, fare; vacationer, vacationist; informalgallivanter
"thousands of air travellers were left stranded"
BRIT.
a Gypsy or other nomadic person.
noun: Traveller
BRIT.
a person who holds New Age values and leads an itinerant and unconventional lifestyle.
noun: New Age traveller; plural noun: New Age travellers; noun: New Age traveler; plural noun: New Age travelers
synonyms: gypsy, Romany, tzigane, didicoi; More

ahiddenbird

So basically, there are various reasons that a person might travel, one of which is to tour around a place for the pure enjoyment of it. That type of traveler is a tourist.

What could be wrong with that? But the above definition, I am a proud and enthusiastic tourist!

sylvia3

Tulips:
Thanks for that link. Perhaps I shall be en vogue for once! (I'd like those black and white patent ones VB was wearing). The cowboy boots I wear for grocery shopping will stay at home.

Any tips for the weather in Rome (and the tourist areas in reach), re: night vs. day temperatures? I really don't want to bring heavier jackets if layering is enough (sweater or blazer + pashmina), but if, like May, it's recommended, so be it. Mid-September can be a crapshoot at certain latitudes.
(Yes, I googled "Rome weather in September" but it wasn't all that helpful.)

dulciusexasperis

Bvlenci, all of your examples except visiting granny are examples of business travel. That's why the common question asked of you at airport Immigration is, 'are you travelling for business or pleasure?' They recognize only 2 possible reasons.

When we use the word 'man' it can mean one man or it can mean mankind. The words tourist and traveller are similar. They are fine if you are referring to 'all' who travel OR 'all' who travel for pleasure. That only should tell you that the two are not synonymous. All tourists travel but not all travellers are tourists. One is a broader category than the other.

The difficulty comes when you try to discuss differences within the very broad category of 'pleasure' travel. Or if you like, 'tourists'.

It isn't hard to know who someone is talking about if you say a 'package tourist'. That's a pretty clearly defined sub-category of pleausure travel.

However, when you get into trying to differentiate between people who pre-plan and pre-book an itinerary and people who do not pre-plan beyond A, what name would you use to differentiate between them.

I'm perfectly happy using 'tourist' and 'traveller' to do that. I don't get hung up on a dictionary saying that 'both travel'.

If you want to call them 'pre-bookers' and 'wingers' I'm just as happy with that. Pick any two names you want. As long as everyone agrees that they know what the differences the names indicates are, any two names will do.

Ahiddenbird, what names would you choose to use to differentiate HOW people travel for pleasure, in terms of pre-planning vs. winging it?

Paul Theroux wrote, " “Tourists don't know where they've been, travelers don't know where they're going.” Clearly, he was using the two words to differentiate between two groups and HOW they travel for pleasure.

Try and figure out what he meant by that statement.

Celticharper

A traveler is a pretentious tourist

dulciusexasperis

Sylvia3, you are free to disagree with any opinion I might put forth. You are not free to write, "a pretentious, self-serving...donkey."

Try to figure out the difference.

Annhig, there is nothing wrong with being a 'tourist' if that is what you choose to be. Of course in asking the question, you are acknowledging that there is a difference.

Colduphere, you have got it basically correct. An explorer of course requires unknown territory (unknown by all) which is becoming increasingly hard to find.

Or how about 'adventurer'. An adventure requires both the unknown and risk. Tourists are not adventurers, travellers may be.

Now watch someone write about the first time they tried Thai food was a 'culinary adventure'. Or they booked a hotel without having seen it which they figure constitutes the unknown and they risked it being unsatisfactory. Therefore, that means them adventurous. LOL

sparkchaser

<i>and what's WRONG with being a tourist?</i>

Well, there is a negative side to tourism. Google can show you the relevant articles and papers.

Also, according to Pulp's Common People (extended version) "everyone hates a tourist". And Fight Club backs that up assertion.

Then there's the "f#&!%§ tourists" comments you invariably hear.

annw

<<what to pack for Amsterdam, Rome, Florence and Venice in May >>

I do carry on only and pack/wear the following:
black or dark jeans (for the north) OR black knit slacks/pants
black washable silk slacks/pants
Sometimes a long skirt (often wear on the plane)
tanks/short/long sleeve tops
cardigan (cashmere, light)
light jacket
pashmina
closed toe shoes (I wear Naot or Paul Green) and open toe/sandals

I roll for packing going over and use those "flatten out and get rid of all the air" bags on the way back.
Have a wonderful trip.

bvlenci

[[ Paul Theroux wrote, " “Tourists don't know where they've been, travelers don't know where they're going.” Clearly, he was using the two words to differentiate between two groups and HOW they travel for pleasure. ]]

I know what he was trying to say, but he's another one who's a bit too full of himself. For a great travel writer, one who doesn't take himself too seriously, I'll take Eric Newby over Paul Theroux any day.

Someone who's going to get dental implants in Bucharest is a business traveler?

colduphere

Dulciu ... yes adventurer is good. I'll put that in my book, before explorer.