One of the best things said here: the young people come out knowing all of their rights and none of their responsibilities. here, here...

&gt;&gt;<i>I recall that the Japanese policy of essentially guaranted lifetime employment is called the &quot;Iron Rice Bowl.&quot; Is there an equivalent phrase in French for what the similar arrangement the workers there currently enjoy? (False answers encouraged!)</i>&lt;&lt;

The Tungsten Cassoulet?

Stats can make a case for anything....My 'shooting from the hip, unsourced 10%' comes from a few places aside from the dark recesses of my mind. Needless to say the unemployment figure that the US uses is flawed

Anyways here are a couple of links to the 9-10% stats
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P73979.asp

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu.../06/10341.html

tomboy, you hit it exactly on the head- said it far more concisely than I could. It's a basic economic lesson not just in the free enterprise agenda either, some of the others just don't understand how new jobs emerge in ANY economy- let alone one facing a easier and greater globilization of employees and/or resources.

And I am NOT an employer, I am an employee. But merely have seen the results of BIG TIME Union protections that allow the inmates to take over the assylum, so to speak. I've seen cases where people WERE videotaped, and still could not be fired- just &quot;sent&quot; to rehabilitation couseling (stealing) or a parallel type &quot;help&quot; program. It becomes a contest in who can do the least- and with 12,000 that can get quite competitive.

And Barbara, I was &quot;dismissed&quot; from a job in 1968 for being pregnant. So I do see that it is a two way street- and that some laws and restrictions can often become and are necessary.

But all of this is totally just a brick in the pile. The bigger problem is that the total number of jobs is just not there outside of the government sector. What incentive is there (re tomboy's numbers) for a new job initiative in any venue.

And it isn't just in France that people are coming out of school basically underprepared for any real work day agenda- they do know their &quot;rights&quot; and yet little about personal and workplace responsibilities contingent to those rights.

tulips said: I don't think that keeping the status quo is an option anymore.

Keeping the status quo has never been an option.

&quot; The opening up of new markets, foreign or domestic, and the organizational development from the craft shop and factory to such concerns as U.S. Steel illustrate the same process of industrial mutation–if I may use that biological term–that incessantly revolutionizes the economic structure from within, incessantly destroying the old one, incessantly creating a new one. This process of Creative Destruction is the essential fact about capitalism. It is what capitalism consists in and what every capitalist concern has got to live in. . . .&quot;

The above is a quote from:

Joseph A. Schumpeter
&quot;Creative Destruction&quot;
From Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy (New York: Harper, 1975) [orig. pub. 1942], pp. 82-85:


You might also want to look at this address welcoming the incoming class to Winona University, Rochester, Minnesota.

Welcome Address (Excerpt)
August 22, 2005
Judith A. Ramaley - President, Winona University, Rochester, Minnesota

…The Economy is Changing Yet Again

Although some observers dispute the reality of a “new economy,” other recent work suggests that we are indeed entering another long cycle of economic change that will affect us all. According to the original analysis by Joseph Strumpeter (cited by Robert Atkinson 2004, P. 3-4), “economic history is best understood as a set of fundamental transformations from one kind of economy to another” during which the dominant forms of production stagnate, innovation wanes and a new production system emerges that, after some hesitations, leads to “a new period of robust growth and innovation.”

http://www.winona.edu/president/welcomeaddress.htm


It is unfortunate that French youth and society have become so unsure of their place in the world that the only demonstration they can mount is for security - not opportunity.

&quot;As one student said, &quot;I've earned the right to a secure job.&quot;

A recent survey suggested that for most of the young in France, the real dream is to become a civil servant - a fonctionnaire. To work in government offices with regular hours, long holidays, and a 35 hour working week.&quot; - quote from BBC

I would add my <i>hear, hear</i> to &quot;the young people come out knowing all of their rights and none of their responsibilities. &quot; - but only conditionally.

It is, after all, the charge of the educational system to instill an appreciation of both rights <u>and</u> responsibilities. The French youth have been let down by their government.

<i>Aux armes, citoyens! Aux barricades!<i></i></i>

The US has very few of the protections currently disputed in France, and yet we have few of the problems predicted by the anti-CPE factions.

If economic illiteracy prevails in France, there will be a bright side. When the economy has run down, France will be a less expensive place to visit.

So once again, it the &quot;fault&quot; of some other entity or branch responsibility of government (education). Ha-ha! NOW here is an idea-huuuum- I personally do not WANT the government to be the sprinkler that centers the font of education, nor any church to be at that spot either.

How about some PERSONAL responsibility in work ethic and in educating the child you may create, what a concept.

Here's a quote made not all that long ago in troubling economic times:

&quot;Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.&quot;

JFK

Different focus on the onus.

&quot;The young people come out knowing all of their rights and none of their responsibilities&quot;. You are using an awfully large brush to tar our younger population. Just as in any generalization, there is some truth to that statement. However, to deem all young people as having no job skills, no desire to work and looking for a free ride- that is simply not true.

Okay, how about &quot;French youth have been let down by their parents, who have been let down by the government they assent to.&quot;

Better?

but but the important thing is how are they dressed? are they wearing white shoes? shorts? jeans?

That is much more accurate, IMO.

Anyway, just for those of you who are wondering, I am from Mississippi but moved to France straight out of college when Pompidou was president. I have seen quite a few governments come and go and have seen what has gone right and what has gone wrong. One thing that I have not seen in France is any sort of decline of the sort that so many people are whining about (especially the French!). I have seen a constant improvement of living and social conditions over the years. I have lived through strikes that lasted more than a month and have spent two hours crossing Paris on foot in each direction going to and from work, yet I understood what the strikers were fighting for and respected the sincerity of their struggle although I have never been on strike in my life. I do wonder, however, how many people here are voicing opinions without ever having lived any difficulty in their lives. I myself was once unemployed for 9 months, but I held out on unemployment compensation until I got a reasonable job. In 2006, I have 50 days of vacation and work 37 1/2 hours a week for an administrative position in a typical office. Does this cost the French economy a fortune? You bet it does! Do I pay high taxes? Yes, I do. Do I envy the standard of living in other countries? Not at all.
And since France is tied with Ireland for the highest birthrate in Europe, it would appear that people have confidence in the future.

Careful, &quot;cadillac1234&quot;, you shouldn't supply me with ammo.
First, you compare the US unemploy-ment (&quot;true&quot; method) to French unemployment (&quot;false&quot; method). That's apples to sofas, not even in the fruit family.
Second, your &quot;true&quot; method includes &quot;marginally attached workers who are neither working nor looking for work, but who want to work and have looked for jobs.&quot; I guess that includes me, who retired 2 years ago but would take a call for CEO if it came in. It also includes &quot;Discouraged workers who have given up looking for jobs.&quot; This would include those high school dropouts who keep trying to get a job as brain surgeon, or rocket scientist. But then, perhaps no one in France is discouraged, and their dropouts do get jobs as rocket scientists. By the way, did that Arienne rocket ever get to lift off?

Third, you quote a stock broker as an economic expert. 'Nuf said.

Fourth, your second source includes a refutation of your own case, wherein it points out that even given the &quot;true&quot; definition, the rate of unemployment is 3 % pts. less than the mid 1990s. Again, though, truly comparative data for France is conveniently omitted from your post.

Take want you want from my post which never defended or attacked anyone's economic platform. You seem to think I'm defending France's economic situation. I'm saying the US's unemployment figure is bogus, always has been, which is the reason why economists rely on jobs creation data report. The only people who reference the unemployment rate are politicians because it's designed to not really fluctuate.

In 2004 there was a heatwave in France that was blamed for the deaths of more than 10,000 elderly. This fact alone signals a major decline. Of course this happened in august so you can't expect than anybody could be bothered to look in on granny....
There are deep troubles in France whether Kerouac sees them or not.

&quot;it would appear that people have confidence in the future.&quot;

Perhaps, but the French also have one of the world's highest reported rates of depression. Some 30% of all French adults are clinically depressed so who knows.

30%? Perhaps it depends on the question that was asked:
Q: Are you happy?
A: Yes
Q: Could you be happier?
A: Yes
Q: When did your depression start?

Tomboy

The information comes from the World Health organization's study of suicide and depression. it refers to depression in the clinical sense.

Anyone who wants can go to:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

for all sorts of wondrous statistics. Of course, everyone who wants to prove their own point will dispute them.

There are some interesting comparisons between Ireland, one of the fastest growing economies, and France, one of the slowest (Germany is worse), that kerouac blithely ignores when he uses the birthrate as a surrogate for citizen's confidence.

The population growth rate in France is 0.37%, in Ireland 1.16%. The median age in France is 38.85 versus 33.7 in Ireland. Ireland's GDP grew 7% annually from 1995 to 2004, France's 1.5%. Unemployment in Ireland is 4.2% versus 1.5% in france. The GDP per capita adjusted for purchasing power parity os $34,100 in Ireland vs $29.900 in France. The public debt in France is 66.5% of GDP, in Ireland it is 27.5%.

I guess the young want out of France before the bills for kerouac's 50 days of vacation and 37 1/2 hour work weeks come due which he proudly admits costs the economy a fortune.