Libby

There was a thread go about a woman not wanting to take her children to French beaches. What happened to it? It was just getting good yesterday.

MH

I was looking for it earlier and went to as far as post 900. Someone must have wrote something nasty as the fodors editors obviously deleted it...

cd

I told my husband about this post and it caused an arguement. We never visit beaches when we travel to Europe so it was news to me that ALL beaches permit topless sunbathing. He contends that there MUST be beaches where topless sunbathing is not permitted. ??? Whose right?

MH

The europeans see nothing wrong with going topless and I can not think of one european country where they do not do this. Spain, yes, Portugal, yes, France, definitely, Italy, oh my god!!!! those are the countries that I have personally layed on the beach topless...oh and Croatia, yes!!

Wrong

cd: Your husband is wrong. There are no beaches, lakes, rivers, or streams anywhere in Europe where sunbathing topless is forbidden. Think about it - it's rather enlightening, no?

Kat

My husband and I took our 2 sons to the Costa del Sol. At the time my sons were 6 and 9. At first I was a bit nervous about what their reaction would be when they saw the topless sunbathers. They seemed to take it in stride, not even commenting on it for several days. They were too busy collecting sea glass and checking out the sea urchins on the beach. Around the third day, I heard my younger son ask the older one why some women only had bathing suit bottoms on. My older one answered - "Why do you think? One piece costs less than two and they probably don't have enough money for both pieces." That settled, they went back to looking for sea glass.

europeanwoman

To everybody who feels offended by topless women on European beaches: Just avoid some pulic parks in summer. Like the English Garden in Munich. You would be surprised what you get to see there. Not sure all that is permitted, but who looks, who cares, it's just part of our life.

honey

The English Garden in Munich borders on an orgy on hot summer days! Not only is total nudity everywhere, people make out...naked!

MaryC

SooooOOOOOoooo... What DID happen to the topless thread?

EP

I did not see that thread. But like people have said here, there is no beach in Europe where topless sunbathing would not be permetted. I think nobody has even thought that somebody might want that kind of prohibition. After all, everybody has nipples, and there is nothing immoral in tits.<BR><BR>Women have sunbathed topless more than 30 years by now. I used to, but nowadays I look better with a top on, so I keep it purely for esthetic reasons.

Obs.

What is the big issue about topless? What? I thought this was a realtive sophisticated site, but some of you, I have to wonder. Can I for one just tell you how awfully, deadenly boring most of this has been. COYOTE, 'ya dig?

cd

Thanks everyone for your replies to my question. I love the "it's my choice" attitude of the Europeans. I think my husband will be more interested in "beaches" from this point on.... Leaving for Ireland in an hour....but I'm sure the beaches there are really cold right now.

a

Regarding the originator of that ‘topless’ thread, was the treatment she received justified by her disapproval of the prevailing norm of beachwear in France? It rather depends on whether one’s goal was revenge against her for her disapproval, or whether one wanted to win her trust and confidence. If someone is uncomfortable with something, that’s how they feel, and trying to bully them out of their feelings by telling them how stupid they are to feel this way, won’t change how they feel. On the other hand, if one shows them respect by giving them a listening ear, they might be persuaded to listen in return. <BR><BR>I don’t know if winning her trust would have been enough to persuade her to even try the beaches as they exist, but I do know the result of such treatment as she did receive. First, she went into a defensive position, and then she left the thread. I suppose for those who wanted vengeance that counts as a victory. Me, I think it was a lost opportunity for us all.<BR><BR>

Obs.

A, I see your view. But expressed another way, should we pitch our replies to the lowest common denominator? And should we give credence to every knee-jerk view someone decides to post? Lets keep this site sophisticated - let the uninformed go elsewhere for their education, and after they've some experience, why, come on down and join the grown-ups while we talk about true travel issues, not some bugaboo about bare breasts, as though that has any current relevance whatsoever.

Mrs Slocum

Hmmmm, Where did you say that park was?

a

Obs, my difficulty is that I can’t justify punishing someone because they are ‘unsophisticated’ or ‘knee-jerk’ because I’m not in a position to declare what is and what isn’t sophisticated or knee-jerk. But if called upon to hazard a guess, I’d say that tolerance is the ultimate in sophistication, whereas punishment and censorship of someone for supposed errant behavior is what really lowers the denominator. <BR><BR>The attacks don’t just occur on subjects regarding nudity, this sort of thing happens on all kinds of topics. Someone asks a question that someone else thinks is stupid, or has been asked too many times before, or whatever, and instead of ignoring the question, which they of course have every right to do, they insist on weighing in. I’d rather see Fodor’s make the editorial decisions as to what threads are appropriate (which reminds me, this thread itself is probably going to be deleted within the hour.) But while it lasts, let me say that I can hardly support keeping a messageboard for the exclusive use of the informed and the experienced. Sounds too much like the bank that only makes a loan to someone who doesn’t need one. Besides, it would eliminate me: I’m uninformed and inexperienced on all kinds of aspects of travel. <BR>

Obs.

All very good points, a. Too often people ask a question and receive an attack for their trouble. We certainly want to discourage that type of behavior. I suppose it's better to have a debate, regardless of issue, than nothing said at all. Possibly it will not alway be endless, but debate should be tolerated, always. Hopefully more of us will adhere to the principles you suggest. If some of what is said is a bit daff, I suppose we'll survive it.

Al Godon

Let's face it. Many USA folks are prudish, and religious zealots steeped in intolerance whose basic message is control through the infliction of guilt and shame.<BR><BR>I know my ex department head, he of the Protestant religous right and a man of terminal degree education, made a comment, in public print for all readers of the newspaper to see, where he referenced Christians, Moslems, Jews, and Catholics. (As if Catholics were not Christians. Post facto he claimed he knew better. Perhaps.) <BR><BR>We have succeeded in keeping explicit sex off of most TV shows, but murder, beatings, spousal abuse, child abuse, mental cruelty, torture, and other forms of criminal behavior, are common and unregulated. I totally fail to see how showing two people caring for each other in an intimate way is worse than professional wrestling, murder, and typical, daily, prevalent TV and movie violence. I don't care how real or unreal the violence is, the message is the same. Scenes involving the beating the crap out of someone by screaming, thugs is acceptable for small children to watch. Sex and nudity in any form is not acceptable. Strange culture we have. <BR><BR>Now, will someone, preferably one of the prudes who is shocked at the sight of an uncovered female breast, explain to me how seeing one is worse that seeing mass butchery in war films??<BR>Right now we are saying that killing all those folks in Afghanistan is justified, right, proper, moral, etc, but that seeing a nude body is somehow degrading, disgusting, immoral, depraved, even criminal. So murder is socially acceptable, but nudity is not? Is that what you are saying? And you expect reasonable people to believe it?<BR> <BR>So explain to me how dropping a cluster bomb, the design of which is singular, i.e. kill and maim to the fullest extent possible, is right, and a viewing a nude breast is wrong.<BR><BR>Have at it, but you have a formidable task on your hands.<BR>

Mandy

I think the topless thread ran off with the Italian men thread, and we can only wonder what is going on between them now.

anon

Does anyone remeber the story about a mother in Florida who complained to the police about a statue of David at a lawn ornament store. She was worried that her children might see it. Talk about uptight. And all in the name of religion and morality.