What do you think of Berlin?
Jun 11th, 2017, 12:04 PM
#21
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Prettier is subjective - although Berlin like most German cities was blitzed during WW2 -to me the modern architecture is superb = it's like a world capital being built out of scratch almost. And Gendarmnerplatz (sp?) has majestic buildings as does Museum Island- classical ones.
but Alexander Platz- the new American Consulate near the Brandenberg Gate- the Holocaust Memorial and Jewish museum and all over west Berlin are interesting if not old. And the Reichstag with bits of old and new.
Sections of old East Berlin ooze old-world atmosphere.
Berlin's beauty if spaced out a lot and hard to appreciate - the canals and rivers in Mitte annhig mentions are also neat.
but Alexander Platz- the new American Consulate near the Brandenberg Gate- the Holocaust Memorial and Jewish museum and all over west Berlin are interesting if not old. And the Reichstag with bits of old and new.
Sections of old East Berlin ooze old-world atmosphere.
Berlin's beauty if spaced out a lot and hard to appreciate - the canals and rivers in Mitte annhig mentions are also neat.
Jun 11th, 2017, 01:04 PM
#24
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graffiti?
Well the one-mile or so stretch of original Berlin Wall - well worth the visit - is covered with graffiti but I did not notice it all over the city but I agree with massimop - if cohesive cool old-world looks - but for history and interesting diverse sights Berlin rocks.
Suburban Sachenhausen has a grim Concentration Camp Memorial with gas chambers still in view. The Olympic Staidum is full of history. Topgraphy of Terror documenting Nazi terrorists and Plotenzee Prison where the meat hooks Hitler ordered his big enemies and traitors to be hung on till dead - hooks still there -the Jewish Memorial and Holocaust thing and Bebelplatz and the book burning memorial there, Checkpoint Charlie and remnants scattered around of the grim Wall - Jewish cemeteries and synagogues decimated on Krsytall Nacht and on and on - so history Berlin is tops - overall looks one of the worst even for Germany due to WW2.
Many of those sights are fairly far removed from each other so Berlin for history buffs needs at least 3-4 days
Well the one-mile or so stretch of original Berlin Wall - well worth the visit - is covered with graffiti but I did not notice it all over the city but I agree with massimop - if cohesive cool old-world looks - but for history and interesting diverse sights Berlin rocks.
Suburban Sachenhausen has a grim Concentration Camp Memorial with gas chambers still in view. The Olympic Staidum is full of history. Topgraphy of Terror documenting Nazi terrorists and Plotenzee Prison where the meat hooks Hitler ordered his big enemies and traitors to be hung on till dead - hooks still there -the Jewish Memorial and Holocaust thing and Bebelplatz and the book burning memorial there, Checkpoint Charlie and remnants scattered around of the grim Wall - Jewish cemeteries and synagogues decimated on Krsytall Nacht and on and on - so history Berlin is tops - overall looks one of the worst even for Germany due to WW2.
Many of those sights are fairly far removed from each other so Berlin for history buffs needs at least 3-4 days
Jun 11th, 2017, 05:26 PM
#25
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Berlin is one of my favorite cities. Certainly, it's a bit edgier than other cities in the Deutschland but it's vibrant and there is so much to explore.
The new architecture is superb and does what great architecture should be expected to do; show you a story. The Memorial to the Murdered Jews (Peter Eiseman- architect) is one of the most moving installations I had ever walked through. That is, until I went into Libeskind Jewish Museum.
This may all seem a little grim, but it's done well. If it seems a little too gritty for you, go hang out in Charlottenburg. Or Potsdamer plazt.
Dresden isn't far away. It's a lovely city.
The new architecture is superb and does what great architecture should be expected to do; show you a story. The Memorial to the Murdered Jews (Peter Eiseman- architect) is one of the most moving installations I had ever walked through. That is, until I went into Libeskind Jewish Museum.
This may all seem a little grim, but it's done well. If it seems a little too gritty for you, go hang out in Charlottenburg. Or Potsdamer plazt.
Dresden isn't far away. It's a lovely city.
Jun 12th, 2017, 07:09 AM
#26
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I love Berlin and have been there 3 times. So much history and so much I have not seen I hope to get back in the next year.
The only graffiti I noticed was the east side gallery, a long stretch of the wall where it is purposely done and portions of the wall at Potsdamer Platz showing original graffiti on the wall.
The only graffiti I noticed was the east side gallery, a long stretch of the wall where it is purposely done and portions of the wall at Potsdamer Platz showing original graffiti on the wall.
Jun 12th, 2017, 10:08 AM
#28
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I'm surprised at the two people who think Dresden is pretty or lovely. Dresden was bombed to bits, most of it is modern architecture. They rebuilt the church but it's fake, it's like Disneyland (or the old town square in Warsaw, also fake). They have some good museums, and a couple buildings that survived. Parts of the Zwinger remain but it was mostly destroyed by carpet bombing in 1945. A lot of the Semper gallery was destroyed also, but it was reconstructed. Now I think Dresden has a few buildings of interesting contemporary design if one wants that.
Dresden has a good university and I think would be a good place to live due to that and the many jobs in the tech and pharmaceutical industry that make it a prosperous city.
Dresden has a good university and I think would be a good place to live due to that and the many jobs in the tech and pharmaceutical industry that make it a prosperous city.
Jun 12th, 2017, 11:07 AM
#29
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"as someone who loves elegant cities like Paris and Rome... I despise graffiti and Soviet-era buildings, and I heard Berlin has plenty of them."
You clearly have practically no knowledge of Rome or Paris. Both awash with graffiti, repulsive and tacky modern non-architecture - not to mention huge enclaves of marginalised, oppressed and desperately poor migrants.
Berlin has far less of any of these things - though admittedly blinkered and superficially-minded tourists can lock themselves into the tiny museum-like centres of Rome and Paris and delude themselves these zomboid mortuaries represent the underperforming metropolises they're part of.
True: Berlin has almost no history by European standards. Most of what's interesting either dates from a brief 70-year period in the 20th C when most or all of it was governed by a savage tyranny, or consists of modern museums documenting and illustrating with extraordinary honesty and clarity the city's recent savagery.
Though in fairness, Berlin's museums cover far more than the country's horrible domestic history before 1989: the city's total museum resources are rivalled only by London and make those of Paris and Rome look as limited and tediously provincial as they are.
Are the historic centres of Paris and Rome more interesting than Berlin? Yes, they're prettier and still retain the now mediocre bars and restaurants that once gave them a charm, but now make them scarcely different from any other proper city.
But they have nothing like Berlin's modern cultural vivacity. Try finding a decent theatre or concert in Rome, or a decent church choir (or comedy club) in Paris.
Berlin is now London's only competitor as Europe's cultural capital.
You clearly have practically no knowledge of Rome or Paris. Both awash with graffiti, repulsive and tacky modern non-architecture - not to mention huge enclaves of marginalised, oppressed and desperately poor migrants.
Berlin has far less of any of these things - though admittedly blinkered and superficially-minded tourists can lock themselves into the tiny museum-like centres of Rome and Paris and delude themselves these zomboid mortuaries represent the underperforming metropolises they're part of.
True: Berlin has almost no history by European standards. Most of what's interesting either dates from a brief 70-year period in the 20th C when most or all of it was governed by a savage tyranny, or consists of modern museums documenting and illustrating with extraordinary honesty and clarity the city's recent savagery.
Though in fairness, Berlin's museums cover far more than the country's horrible domestic history before 1989: the city's total museum resources are rivalled only by London and make those of Paris and Rome look as limited and tediously provincial as they are.
Are the historic centres of Paris and Rome more interesting than Berlin? Yes, they're prettier and still retain the now mediocre bars and restaurants that once gave them a charm, but now make them scarcely different from any other proper city.
But they have nothing like Berlin's modern cultural vivacity. Try finding a decent theatre or concert in Rome, or a decent church choir (or comedy club) in Paris.
Berlin is now London's only competitor as Europe's cultural capital.
Jun 12th, 2017, 01:02 PM
#31
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Flanneruk, I'm pretty sure you've never been to Paris, because you couldn't be more misinformed.
Paris, within its periphery, is the most beautifully-designed and harmoniously-built city.
High-rise buildings are banned in Paris, and are restricted to a business district called La Defense. In terms of architecture, it's one of the most homogeneous cities, thanks to Haussmann's vision.
I've been to all 20 arrondissements and have yet to find an area I could describe as ugly.
Berlin sounds like an ugly city with beautiful parts.
Paris is a pretty city with some ugly parts. (Mostly in the suburbs)
Berlin panorama
https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3431/3...56db3910_b.jpg
Paris panorama
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...orama_2010.jpg
Paris, within its periphery, is the most beautifully-designed and harmoniously-built city.
High-rise buildings are banned in Paris, and are restricted to a business district called La Defense. In terms of architecture, it's one of the most homogeneous cities, thanks to Haussmann's vision.
I've been to all 20 arrondissements and have yet to find an area I could describe as ugly.
Berlin sounds like an ugly city with beautiful parts.
Paris is a pretty city with some ugly parts. (Mostly in the suburbs)
Berlin panorama
https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3431/3...56db3910_b.jpg
Paris panorama
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...orama_2010.jpg
Jun 12th, 2017, 02:33 PM
#32
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Paris, within its periphery, is the most beautifully-designed and harmoniously-built city.>
Yes butg flanner is talking about the atrocious scene circling Paris just on the otherside of the Peripherique -which I have not seen in Berlin's outer limits - it is endemic of most French cities where zoning laws seem to end at city limits.
But inside the P yes strict zoning laws have kept Haussmann's building style with a strict limit on buildings' heigths (except Tour Montparnasse and a few others).
But I agree with you on the whole.
London Culture Capital of Europe -what a bunch of British B S-there is no such thing. Period. And Britain is hardly in Europe anymore. More hot air from Cotswolds Hills.
Yes butg flanner is talking about the atrocious scene circling Paris just on the otherside of the Peripherique -which I have not seen in Berlin's outer limits - it is endemic of most French cities where zoning laws seem to end at city limits.
But inside the P yes strict zoning laws have kept Haussmann's building style with a strict limit on buildings' heigths (except Tour Montparnasse and a few others).
But I agree with you on the whole.
London Culture Capital of Europe -what a bunch of British B S-there is no such thing. Period. And Britain is hardly in Europe anymore. More hot air from Cotswolds Hills.
Jun 12th, 2017, 09:33 PM
#34
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Hi Loacker
Actually, it's not quite right to say that "Paris and Prague were spared by Hitler for their beauty."
Hitler did order Paris to be reduced to rubble, specifically the historical and religious monuments -- all were rigged with dynamite. Hitler wanted the Allies to gain nothing but a smoking ruin when they entered the city. Hitler gave the order, but it never happened, either because the French Resistance had conrol of the city by then or because the German general von Choltitz disobeyed the order. Contested history.
But like you, I do love the city.
s
Actually, it's not quite right to say that "Paris and Prague were spared by Hitler for their beauty."
Hitler did order Paris to be reduced to rubble, specifically the historical and religious monuments -- all were rigged with dynamite. Hitler wanted the Allies to gain nothing but a smoking ruin when they entered the city. Hitler gave the order, but it never happened, either because the French Resistance had conrol of the city by then or because the German general von Choltitz disobeyed the order. Contested history.
But like you, I do love the city.
s
Jun 13th, 2017, 02:21 AM
#35
I'm surprised at the two people who think Dresden is pretty or lovely. Dresden was bombed to bits, most of it is modern architecture. They rebuilt the church but it's fake, it's like Disneyland (or the old town square in Warsaw, also fake)>>
well you and LSky are entitled to your opinions as am I.
But to dismiss the Frauenkirche as being like Disney is entirely to miss the point:
http://www.dw.com/en/landmark-dresde...shes/a-1758986
well you and LSky are entitled to your opinions as am I.
But to dismiss the Frauenkirche as being like Disney is entirely to miss the point:
http://www.dw.com/en/landmark-dresde...shes/a-1758986
Jun 13th, 2017, 02:51 AM
#36
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'And Britain is hardly in Europe anymore.'
Britain is still geographically in Europe and will stay there as far as I am aware. It is actually still in the EU and will be until our 2 year time limit ends (March 2019) with no deal or when a new treaty is put in place.
I work in financial services and we are definitely still implementing the European regulations that come into effect next year because we are still in the EU.
Britain is still geographically in Europe and will stay there as far as I am aware. It is actually still in the EU and will be until our 2 year time limit ends (March 2019) with no deal or when a new treaty is put in place.
I work in financial services and we are definitely still implementing the European regulations that come into effect next year because we are still in the EU.
Jun 13th, 2017, 05:32 AM
#37
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<i>High-rise buildings are banned in Paris</i>
You may exclude Tour Montparnasse due to its uniqueness (as well as Tour Eiffel). But even if you excluded La Défense for being in another département - even though built to extend the visual axis from the Louvre beyond Pl. Charles de Gaulle - you'd still find a lot of high-rise buildings in the 13th and 15th. The latter are even clearly visible from Tour Eiffel if you look down the river Seine towards Boulogne-Billancourt.
While the Italie 13 projects in the 13th are indeed not too pretty, the Front de Seine ensemble in the 15th does not look bad, IMO.
Anyway, I don't think you can understand Paris if you focus your attention on the single digit arr. of département 75 only. Well, you can, obviously. But your perpection of "Paris" would be like that of some Europeans who think that the average New Yorker resides on the 80th floor of a skyscraper in Manhattan and rides horse-drawn carriages in Central Park every weekend.
In addition, the Paris orbital is not necessarily the border between the beauty and the beast. Besides the usual suspect in Versailles, there is a lot to see and explore in the Ile de France.
You may exclude Tour Montparnasse due to its uniqueness (as well as Tour Eiffel). But even if you excluded La Défense for being in another département - even though built to extend the visual axis from the Louvre beyond Pl. Charles de Gaulle - you'd still find a lot of high-rise buildings in the 13th and 15th. The latter are even clearly visible from Tour Eiffel if you look down the river Seine towards Boulogne-Billancourt.
While the Italie 13 projects in the 13th are indeed not too pretty, the Front de Seine ensemble in the 15th does not look bad, IMO.
Anyway, I don't think you can understand Paris if you focus your attention on the single digit arr. of département 75 only. Well, you can, obviously. But your perpection of "Paris" would be like that of some Europeans who think that the average New Yorker resides on the 80th floor of a skyscraper in Manhattan and rides horse-drawn carriages in Central Park every weekend.
In addition, the Paris orbital is not necessarily the border between the beauty and the beast. Besides the usual suspect in Versailles, there is a lot to see and explore in the Ile de France.
Jun 13th, 2017, 09:34 AM
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Interesting thoughts. I've had several people suggest Berlin as a destination for me, which was not on my radar for upcoming trips. Although it initially held no appeal, I'm gaining more interest as I learn more.
