we are thinking about switzerland in early october for ashort visit. between wengen and zermatt, which town (and neighboring mountain) conveys the better "alps" experience?

Bill,<BR><BR>I've never been to Zermatt, but two years ago my wife and I returned to the Jungfrau region. We stayed in Murren, which is across the Lauterbrunnen Valley from Wengen. Can't rave enough about the place. You may want to take a look at this page I put together after our trip. Good luck.<BR><BR>http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/.171662/187/?DM=1&s=<BR><BR>

This is another of those "here we go again" type of discussions. The logical question is simply put: What do you mean by "alps" experience? Is it hiking to spectacular vistas? Sitting in a cafe drinking wine? Gazing at lovely views from a hotel window? Walking through high alpine pastures with cows and/or sheep grazing beneath snow studded peaks? Or skirting a glacier in the fog while picking your way over a Himalayan landscape.<BR><BR>Both areas, the Bernese Alps and the Pennine Alps, have their adherents, although I doubt if either has detractors other than to say that both are tourist meccas.<BR>The mountains around Zermatt are in the eyes of many more spectacular, but seeing them so that their full character is revealed requires considerable effort to make some steep hikes to get into the best viewing position. This is the area where mountaineering was born, and storied climbs of the dramatic peaks in this area are legendary. <BR>The mountain peaks of the Berner Oberland are more readily viewable from visitor friendly sites, with a slightly larger number of cable lifts and train lines taking the visitor higher. <BR><BR>Arguably, the featured trip from Zermatt is the cable ride to the Klein Matterhorn; in the Bernese Alps it is the train to the Jungfraujoch. But there are other strong nominees for that distinction. <BR><BR>Were we discussing August, I would say it depends on what kind of visit you have in mind. If a seated experience is your goal, then the Bernese Alps is perhaps the better choice; if it is an active, exploring type of experience, then the Zermatt area offers the more dramatic and athletic hikes. <BR><BR>By October, however, the weather can become cloudy. In my visits, the last week of September was a good time to be headed home. October can be a "golden" month, but that is not always the case.<BR>Like anywhere in the fall, it is hit or miss on the clouds. No one can predict that any more than someone can tell you where you get the best "alps" experience. It all depends on what you want.<BR>

Hello bill hunter,<BR><BR>I can't add much to Bob Brown's detailed analysis of the mountains and the different experiences they offer, nor can I add much to ajs' delight in the Berner Oberland.<BR><BR>I do want to mention the difference in the villages, though. Zermatt is somewhat over-built in my opionion. In fact, I once saw someone refer to Zermatt as the Manhattan of the mountains. It does have cosy streets and wooden houses, but the hotels seem to be built on top of one another. <BR><BR>But there are prettier villages in the area, I think: Saas Fee, Saas Grund.<BR><BR>On the other hand, Wengen offers more of a quaint Swiss village feel.<BR><BR>You can get some photos and some discussion on these places at www.twenj.net, www.wengen.com, and www.zermatt.ch.<BR><BR>Have a great trip!<BR><BR>s

Hi Bill,<BR>Zermatt is just totally awesome in every way and the Matterhorn has to be seen in all its moods to be believed. HOWEVER getting to Zermatt is a 5 hour proposition from anywhere else in Switzerland and involves at least 3 train connections. Do not count on roads being open. If you do go, book now the Hotel Julen, the most cozy, charming and wonderful in all Zermatt. We have also skied Grindelwald and stayed at the Gletschergarten with a dropdead view of the glacier right outside our window, the Bernese Oberland is gorgeous and easy to get to. Wengen is going to be mighty sleepy at this time of year, Zermatt will be much livelier. Grindelwald is the main train station then you connect up the mountain to Wengen. Both are Alpine "musts", you cannot choose in terms of scenery. Depends how much time you have to travel all the way to Zermatt versus Bernese Oberland which is quickly accessible from everywhere else in Switzerland. Another gorgeous place with fantastic scenery is St. Moritz, we went the first time this year, it has 320 days of sun (sunny all the time in February) and amazing hotels, shops and restaurants and lovely walks at this time of the year, amazing scenery. We really went crazy and stayed at the 5 star Kulm Palace which is a vacation unto itself with a wonderful spa including semi-Olympic pool and workout room with full-on lake and mountain views. There are other less expensive options. Have fun!

Hi Bill, Anywhere in CH is a win-win decision. One word of warning...make sure the things you want to do are available. We were in Zermatt and some of the lifts were not in operation. October is considered shoulder time, some hotels will close, etc. I think a call to Swiss Tourism might be in order if you decide you want to try all the lifts in Zermatt. I know for sure that hotels & such close by mid-Oct in Wengen, other areas of Bernese Oberland (my favorite area)...<BR> We stayed 3 weeks in CH in Oct 97, were run out of 2 hotels closing before we wanted to leave...in May 93 we were in Zermatt & the only lifts/trains were not the ones we wanted to do...but both times we had fabulous visits. In Oct 97 we had snow in Grindelwald, so we went to Saas Fee till it snowed there & then back to Grindelwald. It was fabulous being there with the snow...and the roads were clear by the time we returned to Grindelwald.<BR> I hope you have a great time, just make sure you can do what you want to do. Oh yes, Hotel Julen...fabulous food too. We did half-board there & were very happy with the hotel & meals.<BR> Aloha, Linda

hey. thank you all for your lively replys and insight. (this part of the forum seems to be a bit more civilized than others who shall go unnamed). <BR><BR>we have been to wengen and love the thrill off seeing the jungfrau looming over the village. does the matterhorn have the same brooding proximity to zermatt? <BR><BR>and thanks for the tips on the hotel julen. we stay at the hotel eiger in wengen and really like the views as well as the convenience and fun of half-board.<BR><BR>thanks again for the help. bill hunter

Bill---I've been to both places more than once. I'd have to say that the experience and ambience of Murren or Wengen far outweighs that of Zermatt. You can hike in either place, but I have an idea you just want to soak it all in and maybe stroll around a bit. I'd say don't go to Zermatt for another reason: Though the Matterhorn is naturally the main reason to be there, it is shrouded in clouds on many days and you lose the magnificent effect that you get when you look at the travel posters.

Bill,<BR>The Matterhorn is extremely high, the ski station at the top the highest in Europe. Yes it totally dominates the town but does not cast shadows on the town as in Grindelwald. You will take pictures in all different lights trying to catch the variety of sun and shadow, dawn and dusk, pinks and purples and gold, so dramatic. The neatest ski outing in Europe is crossing over the Klein Matterhorn into Cervinia, Italy. The view from the top is the most breaktaking in all the alps, so be sure it is open there in October so you don't miss the view. Wait til you see real live St. Bernard's, for example, complete with their little brandy casks under their chins, riding up the ski lift and skiing down the mountain on their paws! (Along with other terrific dogs, they are avalanche workers.) You could do glacier skiing in Zermatt in October I believe but it is not particularly pleasant. The weather changes from moment to moment due to the high altitude, but it is highly unlikely that you would be cheated of the famous view. Go for it! You will enjoy it tremendously though I do prefer deep summer or ski season anywhere in Switzerland.

Oh brother, this is a tough one. Both villages are "car-free", so you will feel rather alpine for want of a better word. If you want "everything" in one package, then Zermatt. They have done a wonderful job of keeping the rustic charm with all the high-tech. infrastructure you'd want. The center of the village is somewhat ritzy and touristic - there is even a McDonald's there now - but once you get to the edges you are immediately in the real scenery. There are endless hiking trails, stunning to say the least - mattertal and sunegga, the riffelalp... Choose your hotel with care - look into the real alpine "chalet" style. Wengen is certainly smaller, much less nightlife, restaurants, shops, but of course you may consider preferable. Stay at the Hotel Caprice and ask for a "Jungfraublick" (view to the Jungfrau) when you book a room. There are hiking trails just outside the village, most ascend to Kleine Scheidegg; otherwise, take the small train up to Kl. Scheidegg and wander around on top of this plateau - along the "Mannlichen" trail - with the breathtaking view up the Eiger, Monch and Jungfrau (Eiger was site of "The Eiger Sanction" spy movie starring Clint Eastwood - get the VHS and you'll see how stunning the mountain can be). You can also continue further with the train to Grindelwald, or, take the train in the other direction from Wengen down to Lauterbrunnen, go up a cable car to the opposite mountain and take a nice, non-challenging walk to M&uuml;rren (the Schilthorn mountain above this village was featured in the James Bond film "On Her Majesty's Secret Service"). In sum: any of the two resorts will be worth their while. P.S. Zermatt may have a slight weather advantage since it's nearer to the Italian side and they generally get the most sunshine of anywhere in the country...