While everyone offers great advice on this Europe forum, I have been trying to get some response about Turkey in the Africa and Middle East site and nobody answers. Does anyone have ideas about driving in Turkey, particularly along the coast?? If so, could you visit the Africa, Middle East forum and help me out??

Patrick -- This is the appropriate forum for turkey. It certainly is not in Africa and although close to the middle east, it is not part of it. To answer your question: Two years ago my wife and I drove from Istambul to Kusadasi and back. Going thorough Carnakale and returning through Bursa. Driving is not bad. Drivers are agressive and you must drive defensively. Try to have a good map and be aware that secondary roads are quite secondary. However, main roads are quite good. Gas is no problem, most stations take credit cards -- but you should have enough cash to pay for a tank in case their credit card machine does not work. If you have driven in Atlanta, you can drive in Istambul and other parts of Turkey without great problem.

Drove (actually, had a driver) through much of Turkey and have to agree that the drivers and the infrastructure are basically good. People seem to take care with their vehicles and there were frequent roadside gas stations and restaurants. I wasn't as nervous as I have been in other countries. You pass somre pretty ancient forts and towns along the coast, but it gets crowded in summer.

Wow, thanks for answering, folks -- two responses in just a couple of hours. My real question however, is the driving time between Antalya and Marmaris. Is this too far for one day?? We will be in Antalya for two nights and then have four nights on the road before arriving in Kusadasi. We thought we'd like to stay 2 nights in Bodrum, that leaves 2 nights somewhere between Antalya and Bodrum. Should those two nights be in Fethiye, which seems to be a sort of half way point, or in Marmaris?? We won't be going to any of the islands by boat from there, as we will be staying in Samos, Kos, Simi, and Rhodes each for a couple of days after leaving Kusadasi. Found a nice looking hotel at the marina in Marmaris, but wondering if that is too far to drive in one day from Antalya.

By the way,Bo-Jack, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought once you crossed the water at Istanbul, you were no longer in Europe, but in Asia, actually part of the "middle East". The part of Turkey I'm talking about is not in Europe, so I assumed that it would not belong on the European forum. When I scroll down the countries under both forums I find Turkey, but I assumed that is because part is in Europe and part is in Asia.

I believe that the Bosphorus strait is the Europe/Asia dividing line in Istambul; but the Golden Horn is entirely in Europe. So, it depends on which body of water you are crossing. There is not a lot of development on the eastern side of the Bosphorus. I'm not sure whether "Middle East" is a clearly defined geographic entity; it think it is more geo-political. Some lists of Middle Eastern countries do include Turkey; but I believe that most do not. However, most do include Egypt -- which is clearly separated geographically, but not politically. So far as I know, except in the far Eastern part of Turkey most Turks associate themselves more closely with Europe than with Asia or Asia Minor. Certainly, on the Agean coast -- technically in Asia, I believe -- the culture and politics are more European than "Middle Eastern."

Whatever the goepolitical situation, this section seems to be the one where most of the Turkey buffs hang out. Perhaps because many combine (or associate) Turkey with Greece and the Balkan countries, such complication speaks volumes about the area. <BR> <BR>Unless you really want to follow the coast, nothing wrong with that, have you considered breaking the Antalia - Bodrum section with a stop around the Pammukkale/Denizli area? Hot mineral laden springs cascade (well dribble!) over the mountainside giving rise to outdoor stalagtites. Some of the hotels in the area fill their pools with the piping hot water. The scenery on the way up and down is pretty spectacular too. <BR>

Marmaris is the Turkish city we visited that we least liked ... Anyways, if you're going along the coast, the driving time from Antalya to Fethiye should read about 4 hours. From Fethiye to Bodrum, some 4 hours more. If I were in your shoes I would take George's suggestion into account and try to squeeze Pammukale in ... Now, although one could drive from Antalya to Pammukale (4 hours) and from Pammukale to Bodrum (4 1/2 hours), I don't think that Pammukale is worth 2 nights. My route therefore would probably be: Antalya - Fethiye (1 night) - Bodrum (2 nights) - Pammukale (1 night) - Kusadasi <BR>Of course, I would also have to make a day trip out of Kusadasi to visit Priene, Didyma and possibly Miletus (these could be visited along the way if one would drive from Bodrum to Kusadasi directly). <BR>Paulo <BR> <BR>

Patrick, <BR> <BR>Paulo's advice is quite good. I wasn't all that fond of Mamaris either, very crowded and commercial. <BR> <BR>There are several postings on Turkey on this forum ( far more than the Middle <BR>East forum). Do a search for some great information on this fabulous country. <BR> <BR>Don't miss (spelling?) Capodoccia. Surreal and very interesting... <BR> <BR>

Yes Cappadocia is really special but more in the centre of turkey (Konya, antalya area ?), several hours drive from Istanbul. <BR>BTW, Turkey is now officially acknowledged as a candidate for membership in European Union. It´s also part of yearly European song contest and euro football (soccer) championship, although geographically it´s Middle East. <BR>

Thanks for the help, everyone. I didn't mention that we are flying to Cappadocia and staying there three nights before driving to Antalya, with overnight stops in both Konya and Egridir -- so that area is covered. And we had pretty well eliminated the Pammukkale area on the advice of several people. We've done Yellowstone and Roturua in New Zealand and none of that stuff does a whole lot for us --also seemed like a long drive to get there. And yes we plan to stay three nights in Kusadasi for the day trips from there. The driving times you have given me are amazing --we thought it would be much slower going along the coast than that. So we will rethink our coastal stays. Maybe we should stay three nights at Antalya to give us two full days in that area?? We have booked the Renaissance resort hotel on a special $99 per night deal for delux seaview room with balcony, breakfast and dinner included for two. We could probably survive staying an extra night there!! Also has anyone stayed at the Antik Tiyatro Hotel in Bodrum? It sounds like a wonderful upscale small hotel, close to center, but away from the commotion. A little pricier than most of the places we're looking at in Turkey ($150 a night), but looks like it might be worth the splurge.

Hi Patrick, <BR>Antik Tiyatro hotel in Bodrum is a very nice small hotel overlooking the marina, great view especially at sunset or at night from the pool, you'll fall in love with the view of the Aegean and Knights Castle. Rooms are small though. It's only 5-10 minutes walk to the center of Bodrum. <BR>There are 2 ways to drive from Antalya to Fethiye; if you take the coast (Kas, Kalkan road) it takes 4-5 hours, if you take mountain road inland (Korkuteli road) it take 3 hours. Both roads are very scenic. For more info on Turkey you can visit http://get.to/turkey <BR>

Dear Patrick, <BR>I am sorry to remind you that this forun is for travelling. <BR> <BR>I think that this attire of cynics is not propriate. Please close the atlas that I think you have in front of you. It must have been pushing such questions into your mind. <BR> <BR>You must trvel to see Turkey, Middle East and Africa. then you will not ask such questions. I myself have been all those places that I have mentioned and I must tell you that with all its diversities Turkey IS in Europe. <BR> <BR>But, on the other hand if you still insist about a forum on Geography, try www.nationalgeographic.com <BR> <BR>Bye <BR> <BR>Sahin Gunaydin <BR>

Patrick you are correct at getting confused about Turkey's place in the world.I have been living in Turkey for 15 years and I will agree with you that Turkey's place should be in the Middle East not in Europe.A very small part of Turkey is located in Europe but even that part is not European culturally,I suppose the reason for placing Turkey in Europe is more political than social or geographical. <BR>Turkey is a typical Middle Eastern country ,there is nothing wrong with being Middle Eastern but most Turks will take this as an insult,they love to see themselves or accept themselves as Europeans.In reality 99% of Turks culturally do not have anything in common with Europe,you will see a very small really small group of Turks mainly living in the Big Cities who might look Eupopean but this should not fool you at all.They feel Middle Eastern,their values are Middle Eastern,their taste in food,life style is Middle Eastern,their voting habits, their sexual values,religion,ethics,political norms are Middle Eastern,even the Turkish pop music you would hear in every street corner has Arabic/Middle Eastern tones.They really should belong to the Middle Eastern section.

Turkey is partly in Europe and partly in Asia. <BR>Ýstanbul and Canakkale are 2 cities partly buýlt at Europe and in Asia. <BR>Ýstanbul is very cosmopolitan you may ferl yourself European or Middle eastern. <BR>Going inland is more middle eastern but not too strong. <BR>nejat <BR>Guide-Lecturer

Yeah, Patrick! What (on earth) does Geography have to do with Traveling???? What WERE you thinking????? ar ar ar...according to Sahin, you don't need to know where you're going as long as you go!

to the top! <BR>

According to our Turkish guide 95% of Turkey is in ASIA - so there!! <BR> <BR>Istanbul is in Europe - has 16 million of Turkey's 64 million people - so even most of the people are in ASIA. <BR> <BR>All that aside I still think of Turkey as Europe though. <BR> <BR>Wherever it is it is a wonderful place to visit - Cappadocia was incredible and for glitz and glamour the Hotel Dedeman at Antalya took some beating!

Welcome to our selection of the most charming hotels in the center of Istanbul. Envied locations, calm and cosy atmospheres, elegance, we offer you the best in quality and service. <BR>Ferit <BR>http://www.istanbulshotels.com/ <BR> <BR> <BR>

Ferit: <BR>I doubt if I'd be interested in staying in any of these hotels as there would probably be a language problem. You apparently do not understand enough English to even know the meaning of the word "advertising". That is what you have just done on this website and it is strictly forbidden. If you don't understand a word like "advertising" you probably couldn't help me with any of the things I'd need help with in Turkey.