Warning Sistine Chapel
Jul 23rd, 2007, 09:46 AM
#61
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Most of the Catholic Churches in Europe don't charge anything to go inside to worship or look at the arts there. Including St. Peters. I don't see how one can criticize them for money grabbing.
Having said that, I think they need to do something about the situation at the Sistine Chapel. Now, those who want to see the museum have to wait in line for a long time to get in because of all those people <b>only interested</b> in going to the Sistine Chapel. Meanwhile, those who just want to see the Sistine Chapel complain about the long walk to go through the map rooms and Raphael rooms to see it. It's pleasing no one.
Having said that, I think they need to do something about the situation at the Sistine Chapel. Now, those who want to see the museum have to wait in line for a long time to get in because of all those people <b>only interested</b> in going to the Sistine Chapel. Meanwhile, those who just want to see the Sistine Chapel complain about the long walk to go through the map rooms and Raphael rooms to see it. It's pleasing no one.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 09:51 AM
#62
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Actually I think they "Ruin" thier churches by FAILING to control the crowds etc.
IMHO it's hard to feel the "sprit" of a place when the "tour guides" are SHOVING you through it. (Mont St. Michel was horrid the first time I tried it, the "day tour" guides were allowed to "guide" in there so they just shoved the individuals out of thier way and LOUDLY lectured. (I did let one of them have it when she turned around and YELLED at some kids to be quite. The next time she opened her mouth and started to LOUDLY scream her "info" at her group I turned to her and told her to "BE QUIET" She looked like she wanted to slug me...) I did return about 5 pm and the place was amazing, but of course the "tour guides" had herded thier charges back onto the bus.....
The Vatican Muesum had "tour guides" standing all over the place with "portable" photos of the chapel so you couldn't see the art because they were "prelecturing" thier groups about what they were going to see. At some points in the museum (Not going to the chapel) I was CRUSHED up against people in front of me by being SHOVED from the rear by HORDES (most of whom appeared to be led by agressive tour guides)
Lots of museums have strictly limited tour guiding. IMHO that would be a good idea here too. The guides drop you off at the door and tell you when they will pick you up. If they need to lecture you about the art, they can do it on the bus not in the museum!
I still think that "limiting" access is the only way to go, but I don't think they will do it.
IMHO it's hard to feel the "sprit" of a place when the "tour guides" are SHOVING you through it. (Mont St. Michel was horrid the first time I tried it, the "day tour" guides were allowed to "guide" in there so they just shoved the individuals out of thier way and LOUDLY lectured. (I did let one of them have it when she turned around and YELLED at some kids to be quite. The next time she opened her mouth and started to LOUDLY scream her "info" at her group I turned to her and told her to "BE QUIET" She looked like she wanted to slug me...) I did return about 5 pm and the place was amazing, but of course the "tour guides" had herded thier charges back onto the bus.....
The Vatican Muesum had "tour guides" standing all over the place with "portable" photos of the chapel so you couldn't see the art because they were "prelecturing" thier groups about what they were going to see. At some points in the museum (Not going to the chapel) I was CRUSHED up against people in front of me by being SHOVED from the rear by HORDES (most of whom appeared to be led by agressive tour guides)
Lots of museums have strictly limited tour guiding. IMHO that would be a good idea here too. The guides drop you off at the door and tell you when they will pick you up. If they need to lecture you about the art, they can do it on the bus not in the museum!
I still think that "limiting" access is the only way to go, but I don't think they will do it.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 10:38 AM
#63
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My husband and I had the same experience at the Sistine Chapel at Christmas 2004 and will never go back. Those horrible "shushers" (same thing at Sainte Chappelle) telling everyone to be quiet.
There are lots of other beautiful and interesting churches in Rome so we don't feel we are missing anything. Santa Maria Maggiore for one, I actually preferred to Saint Peter's and the Vatican.
There are lots of other beautiful and interesting churches in Rome so we don't feel we are missing anything. Santa Maria Maggiore for one, I actually preferred to Saint Peter's and the Vatican.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:23 AM
#64
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What are "shushers"?
I agree with kgh8m about the people snapping away with their flashes, openly ignoring the "please don't take photos" rule. It was the one thing (besides the loud talking) that detracted from the otherwise positive experience.
I actually heard one US guy, when asked not to take pictures bellow out "This is a F___ ing public place and I'll F__ ing do whatever I F___ ing want with my F__ ing camera!" Charming.
I agree with kgh8m about the people snapping away with their flashes, openly ignoring the "please don't take photos" rule. It was the one thing (besides the loud talking) that detracted from the otherwise positive experience.
I actually heard one US guy, when asked not to take pictures bellow out "This is a F___ ing public place and I'll F__ ing do whatever I F___ ing want with my F__ ing camera!" Charming.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 01:53 PM
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Let's be frank: LIMITING the crowds means one of two things, either raising the price or selling tickets in advance (maybe a third option would be people lining up the night before to be among the limited guests the next day.) Certainly if the admission is doubled, or tripled, there will be amplified complaints of "gouging". If the numbers are limited (cut from say, 10,000 a day in the VM to a sane 3,500), who will be allowed in? Maybe it should be me, as I am a painter AND a catholic! Then again, I'm gay, so I might be disqualified.
It's worth noting that the entry price at the Museum of Modern Art is now $20, and that's not out of line with many of the leading museums. It should be noted that the $13 E the Vatican is charging for general admission probably barely covers the wear and tear on the facility, and then there's the art conservation.
My favored system would be a written test: anyone who can't answer 5 simple random questions about Michelangelo and the Chapel doesn't get in. (And I only have my tongue partically in cheek when I say that.)
I would LOVE to see a saner system, but I reckon that those who complain about the church and it's system loudest would be totally p.o.'d if they couldn't get in at all.
It seems like the crowd on this thread - not unruly, loud, pushsy or shushy at all - would be happy to buy a timed ticket in advance. (Obviously most of the folks hereabouts at Fodors could get jiggy with the idea of ordering tickets before leaving home ...) Maybe thoughtful letters to the Vatican Museums would be effective.
<<Most of the Catholic Churches in Europe don't charge anything to go inside to worship or look at the arts there. Including St. Peters.>>
True. There is no admission at any of the great and beautiful churches in Rome, that I know of. The Vatican Museums are ... MUSEUMS. Private Museums, for that matter. The churches are wide open for hours every day, for the benefit of all of us. I could easily fill a day showing someone works of art and architecture in Roman churches that easily rival, if not equal, the Sistine Chapel: S. Maria del Popolo, with it's Berninis and Caravaggios; Il Jesu; S. Maria MAggiore and it's own Sistine Chapel; s. Pietro in Vincoli with Michelango's Moses and Julian tomb; S. Sabina, one of my favorites; S. Cecilia in Trastevere, with the Maderno Cecilia; the mosaics of S. Maria in Trastevere; S. Pietro in Montorio and the Tempietto; and of course, St. Peter's Basillica.
I'd love to see a change in the system at the VM, and a separate entrance/admission to the Sistine Chapel might be a great solution. Beyond that, to say the Church is grubbing for money when every other RC treasure in Rome is available to us all for not so much as a Eurocent is, to be fair, inaccurate.
<<... openly ignoring the "please don't take photos" rule. It was the one thing (besides the loud talking) that detracted from the otherwise positive experience.>>
The Borghese in Rome requires cameras to be checked before entry. I'll bet the Vatican would love to do that, except for the expense and time required. A logistical nightmare. The crude guy mentioned above said he'd do what he wants in a "public place." As if the VM is a public place. And as if any public place doesn't have the right to regulate behavior. I'd love to see people like that tossed out now and then. Again, a logistical and cost issue, as well as a desire to prevent violent conflicts.
It's worth noting that the entry price at the Museum of Modern Art is now $20, and that's not out of line with many of the leading museums. It should be noted that the $13 E the Vatican is charging for general admission probably barely covers the wear and tear on the facility, and then there's the art conservation.
My favored system would be a written test: anyone who can't answer 5 simple random questions about Michelangelo and the Chapel doesn't get in. (And I only have my tongue partically in cheek when I say that.)
I would LOVE to see a saner system, but I reckon that those who complain about the church and it's system loudest would be totally p.o.'d if they couldn't get in at all.
It seems like the crowd on this thread - not unruly, loud, pushsy or shushy at all - would be happy to buy a timed ticket in advance. (Obviously most of the folks hereabouts at Fodors could get jiggy with the idea of ordering tickets before leaving home ...) Maybe thoughtful letters to the Vatican Museums would be effective.
<<Most of the Catholic Churches in Europe don't charge anything to go inside to worship or look at the arts there. Including St. Peters.>>
True. There is no admission at any of the great and beautiful churches in Rome, that I know of. The Vatican Museums are ... MUSEUMS. Private Museums, for that matter. The churches are wide open for hours every day, for the benefit of all of us. I could easily fill a day showing someone works of art and architecture in Roman churches that easily rival, if not equal, the Sistine Chapel: S. Maria del Popolo, with it's Berninis and Caravaggios; Il Jesu; S. Maria MAggiore and it's own Sistine Chapel; s. Pietro in Vincoli with Michelango's Moses and Julian tomb; S. Sabina, one of my favorites; S. Cecilia in Trastevere, with the Maderno Cecilia; the mosaics of S. Maria in Trastevere; S. Pietro in Montorio and the Tempietto; and of course, St. Peter's Basillica.
I'd love to see a change in the system at the VM, and a separate entrance/admission to the Sistine Chapel might be a great solution. Beyond that, to say the Church is grubbing for money when every other RC treasure in Rome is available to us all for not so much as a Eurocent is, to be fair, inaccurate.
<<... openly ignoring the "please don't take photos" rule. It was the one thing (besides the loud talking) that detracted from the otherwise positive experience.>>
The Borghese in Rome requires cameras to be checked before entry. I'll bet the Vatican would love to do that, except for the expense and time required. A logistical nightmare. The crude guy mentioned above said he'd do what he wants in a "public place." As if the VM is a public place. And as if any public place doesn't have the right to regulate behavior. I'd love to see people like that tossed out now and then. Again, a logistical and cost issue, as well as a desire to prevent violent conflicts.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 02:08 PM
#68
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I was also there when you were still able to line up early and make a bee-line for the chapel. It was wonderful to be able to see it from all different positions and angles when it was quiet. Unfortunately the guards NEED to shush people because they can't seem to accept that it's a chapel, not a bus stop. I loved that guy's booming "SILENCE".
Jul 23rd, 2007, 02:11 PM
#69
It's not true that "other churches don't charge." I paid to see El Grecos in churches in Toledo and the Brancacci Chapel in Florence, and given the lower volume per euro I paid there, I reckon the Vatican Museum is a bargain.
Maybe timed entry is the answer, since it seems to work in similar situations, like The Last Supper in Milan. I don't hear nearly the uproar about people not getting in there that people here are fearing about the Sistine Chapel. It also seems like a large % of the visitors are only traipsing through the Vatican Museums to get to the Sistine Chapel, so perhaps making that separate admission/entry would work as well.
Maybe timed entry is the answer, since it seems to work in similar situations, like The Last Supper in Milan. I don't hear nearly the uproar about people not getting in there that people here are fearing about the Sistine Chapel. It also seems like a large % of the visitors are only traipsing through the Vatican Museums to get to the Sistine Chapel, so perhaps making that separate admission/entry would work as well.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 05:30 PM
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What concerned me more than being ushered through with the crowd was waiting in line outside for around 2 hours. No metal detectors bomb detectors outside. Every time we had to wait in line to see the major attractions in Italy and elsewhere in Western Europe, I thought to myself there must be thousands of people waiting in this line and thought how easy a target we would have been for any would be terrorist. Not sure if i was just being paranoid but it was on my mind.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 06:12 PM
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We paid to get into a few other churches in Italy when we were just there, so, you definitely do pay at other sites. I am sorry the poster had such a bad experience, but had there been a little research done before the visit, some of it might have been avoided. We didn't do a ton of research, but I found out enough that we went right to the Sistine Chapel and then looped back around to see the rest of the museum using that back left door. I'm curious what door drops you out on the street. I might have missed that one. Our mistake was going right to the SIstine Chapel and not enjoying the museum the first time around as it was kind of long to go all around again. However, I had booked an early admittance with that group mentioned that disbands just after entering. We had the Raphael rooms and much of the rest of the museums to ourselves. The only crowded spots at that time were the Map Room and Sistine Chapel. We regret rushing through when we had so much of the museums to ourselves the first time around.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 06:26 PM
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There are three doors at the Sistine Chapel. One which you enter, and two at the back for exiting.
The one to the right drops you to alley between the Sistine Chapel and St. Peter's. It's a shortcut that's been mentioned in Rick Steve's guide. But it has a pretty clear sign that says <b>for tour group use only</b>. And if you rent the audio guide, you won't have a chance to return it.
The one to the left is the regular exit, which loops you back to the museum.
If the OP went out the door to the right, she has ignored the sign.
The one to the right drops you to alley between the Sistine Chapel and St. Peter's. It's a shortcut that's been mentioned in Rick Steve's guide. But it has a pretty clear sign that says <b>for tour group use only</b>. And if you rent the audio guide, you won't have a chance to return it.
The one to the left is the regular exit, which loops you back to the museum.
If the OP went out the door to the right, she has ignored the sign.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:46 PM
#73
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I'm a little confused. The Vatican Museum website says the museum tours for individuals are at 10:30, Noon and 2pm. It also shows information on "Group Tours", but no hours are shown.
Am I reading the info in this thread correctly...that "private" tour companies (Icon/Perillo/ AngelToursRome) are allowed into the VM earlier?
I sure would like some input from y'all...
My adult daughter and I will be in Rome for only 2 days. We arrive on Monday night late, the 22nd of October. (Can I safely assume lines will be somewhat shorter this late in the season?)
We have a confirmed Scavi tour for 9:15am on Tuesday. I noticed that the Scavi tour begins and ends at the Excavations office...which appears to be directly across from the Sistine Chapel. Anyone been on this tour? Were you allowed to go directly into St.Peter's Basilica from the tour? Any way to get to the Sistine Chapel from the Basilica or no?
We certainly want to get the most out of our visit. So I'm thinking some kind of tour is better than none, am I right? (My daughter and I are both educated and able to read from any recommended guides, but we love the "extras" we hear that tour groups get from a guide.)
Other problem. We really only wanted to do one day in Vatican City, but we also will be picking up tickets for the Papal audience on Wednesday morning at 10:30. We were thinking Vatican all morning-early pm on Monday, then doing some other churches we'd like to see. We are going to try to hit some of the churches early on Tuesday morning, as we know some open as early as 7am. We're going to try to plan it so those are closer to the Vatican, so we won't have far to go for the audience. When done there, we want to do a Colisseum tour, as we have an 8:30pm flight to Paris from Ciampino and have been told we should be to airport by 5:30. (We are leaving some luggage at the Termini station when we arrive, so will need time for our driver to stop there and pick up luggage, then drive to airport.)
Any input/comments/suggestions are MORE than welcome. I love yous guys!!!
Thanks!
Paula
PS Tomas...thanks for the list of your fave churches. I know there is another link here I've bmarked, but I really love your posts and feel you are a kindred spirit!
And it is a shame that the MET special exhibits have come to seem like a 3-ring circus. We have the incredible Kimbell Art Musuem in Fort Worth, and Dallas' aren't bad either! I was fortunate to see the best of exhibits (Treasures from Catherine the Great, Soviet Space, etc) without the crowds. Most exhibits at the Kimbell are "timed" entries...the entrance/exit to special exhibits are directly across from one another. 5 people exit, 5 more are let in. Works great. Unfortunately, recently went to a wonderful exhibit of Impressionist art at Houston's beautiful Museum of Fine Art. Admittedly, it was the last day of the exhibit, but even with "timed" tickets, it was way overcrowded and I found myself annoyed to the point where I could not enjoy the exhibit as I should. I kept wondering how they could possibly control the humidity level with so many people in each of the small rooms. (And isn't it about time that museums got "politically incorrect" and handed out "Do's and Don'ts" for viewing??? I'm SO over the guy in the sleeveless shirt and what look like boxers, the people who stop directly in front of you while you're viewing [as if you're invisible!], the people who read the info plaque out loud, and the people who bring their very young children [in strollers, no less!], as if they would be held spellbound for 2 hours, let alone 10 minutes!!!) ok...another thread I reckon'...
Am I reading the info in this thread correctly...that "private" tour companies (Icon/Perillo/ AngelToursRome) are allowed into the VM earlier?
I sure would like some input from y'all...
My adult daughter and I will be in Rome for only 2 days. We arrive on Monday night late, the 22nd of October. (Can I safely assume lines will be somewhat shorter this late in the season?)
We have a confirmed Scavi tour for 9:15am on Tuesday. I noticed that the Scavi tour begins and ends at the Excavations office...which appears to be directly across from the Sistine Chapel. Anyone been on this tour? Were you allowed to go directly into St.Peter's Basilica from the tour? Any way to get to the Sistine Chapel from the Basilica or no?
We certainly want to get the most out of our visit. So I'm thinking some kind of tour is better than none, am I right? (My daughter and I are both educated and able to read from any recommended guides, but we love the "extras" we hear that tour groups get from a guide.)
Other problem. We really only wanted to do one day in Vatican City, but we also will be picking up tickets for the Papal audience on Wednesday morning at 10:30. We were thinking Vatican all morning-early pm on Monday, then doing some other churches we'd like to see. We are going to try to hit some of the churches early on Tuesday morning, as we know some open as early as 7am. We're going to try to plan it so those are closer to the Vatican, so we won't have far to go for the audience. When done there, we want to do a Colisseum tour, as we have an 8:30pm flight to Paris from Ciampino and have been told we should be to airport by 5:30. (We are leaving some luggage at the Termini station when we arrive, so will need time for our driver to stop there and pick up luggage, then drive to airport.)
Any input/comments/suggestions are MORE than welcome. I love yous guys!!!
Thanks!
Paula
PS Tomas...thanks for the list of your fave churches. I know there is another link here I've bmarked, but I really love your posts and feel you are a kindred spirit!
And it is a shame that the MET special exhibits have come to seem like a 3-ring circus. We have the incredible Kimbell Art Musuem in Fort Worth, and Dallas' aren't bad either! I was fortunate to see the best of exhibits (Treasures from Catherine the Great, Soviet Space, etc) without the crowds. Most exhibits at the Kimbell are "timed" entries...the entrance/exit to special exhibits are directly across from one another. 5 people exit, 5 more are let in. Works great. Unfortunately, recently went to a wonderful exhibit of Impressionist art at Houston's beautiful Museum of Fine Art. Admittedly, it was the last day of the exhibit, but even with "timed" tickets, it was way overcrowded and I found myself annoyed to the point where I could not enjoy the exhibit as I should. I kept wondering how they could possibly control the humidity level with so many people in each of the small rooms. (And isn't it about time that museums got "politically incorrect" and handed out "Do's and Don'ts" for viewing??? I'm SO over the guy in the sleeveless shirt and what look like boxers, the people who stop directly in front of you while you're viewing [as if you're invisible!], the people who read the info plaque out loud, and the people who bring their very young children [in strollers, no less!], as if they would be held spellbound for 2 hours, let alone 10 minutes!!!) ok...another thread I reckon'...
Jul 23rd, 2007, 09:15 PM
#74
sarge56 - The group reference on the Vatican web site is if you want to bring your own group on one of the Vatican sponsored/led tours. Outside tour companies are allowed to schedule their own tours with their own guides (not Vatican guides). They have access starting at 8:15 while individuals aren't allowed in until 10:00. So your options are:
1. Take an "individual" tour by the Vatican at 10:30, 12, or 2, which will include other people. You aren't a group so you can't schedule your own group.
2. Take a tour with an outside company(Perillo, Context, etc)which won't just be morning tours. These companies offer tours throughout the day, not just from 8-10.
3. Stand in line for an entrance ticket on your own.
No, you can't enter the Sistine Chapel from St. Peter's. You must enter through the Vatican Museum.
1. Take an "individual" tour by the Vatican at 10:30, 12, or 2, which will include other people. You aren't a group so you can't schedule your own group.
2. Take a tour with an outside company(Perillo, Context, etc)which won't just be morning tours. These companies offer tours throughout the day, not just from 8-10.
3. Stand in line for an entrance ticket on your own.
No, you can't enter the Sistine Chapel from St. Peter's. You must enter through the Vatican Museum.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 09:34 PM
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Tomas, you wrote that
"(Obviously most of the folks hereabouts at Fodors could get jiggy with the idea of ordering tickets before leaving home ...) Maybe thoughtful letters to the Vatican Museums would be effective."
Earlier in this thread (way up), I quoted the Vatican Museum page that relates to faxing to get reservations for a particular time on a particular day to take their 'guided tour' which costs about $10 more and guarantees you NO WAITING in line and also entry by the exit door. If you don't like tours, you're allowed to just walk away from the tour once you have the tickets after you get inside. One can be on their own, but our tour guide, an older woman, was quite wonderful - very enthusiastic and very informative. We didn't always stay with her but went back and forth between interesting rooms and caught up with her (because we'd been given headphones and could hear her from wherever we were).
It was crowded, but doable. We did sit down a lot, in the rooms, as the heat can make you more tired in a crowd like that. This was in May though. July must be horrible.
I also posted a phone prefix from the U.S. that allows us to call Italy for 10c a minute from any phone, and it worked for the fax. I faxed my order from California. When we arrived in Rome, the Vatican had faxed to our hotel the confirmation of our reservations for the next day at either noon or 12:30pm (can't remember). We walked right up to the officer who had a list of those with appointments and we went right in.
It's important to use that feature if one doesn't want to wait in long, long lines, just to get in, because the walk inside, as you know, is long enough as it is (but very rewarding).
After we left the Sistine Chapel, we were allowed to go enjoy St. Peter's, which was not crowded at the time we went. I had been there in 1953 when only 14 but was eager to see the Pieta again and really was thrilled to see it again even if through glass now.
- Andrys
"(Obviously most of the folks hereabouts at Fodors could get jiggy with the idea of ordering tickets before leaving home ...) Maybe thoughtful letters to the Vatican Museums would be effective."
Earlier in this thread (way up), I quoted the Vatican Museum page that relates to faxing to get reservations for a particular time on a particular day to take their 'guided tour' which costs about $10 more and guarantees you NO WAITING in line and also entry by the exit door. If you don't like tours, you're allowed to just walk away from the tour once you have the tickets after you get inside. One can be on their own, but our tour guide, an older woman, was quite wonderful - very enthusiastic and very informative. We didn't always stay with her but went back and forth between interesting rooms and caught up with her (because we'd been given headphones and could hear her from wherever we were).
It was crowded, but doable. We did sit down a lot, in the rooms, as the heat can make you more tired in a crowd like that. This was in May though. July must be horrible.
I also posted a phone prefix from the U.S. that allows us to call Italy for 10c a minute from any phone, and it worked for the fax. I faxed my order from California. When we arrived in Rome, the Vatican had faxed to our hotel the confirmation of our reservations for the next day at either noon or 12:30pm (can't remember). We walked right up to the officer who had a list of those with appointments and we went right in.
It's important to use that feature if one doesn't want to wait in long, long lines, just to get in, because the walk inside, as you know, is long enough as it is (but very rewarding).
After we left the Sistine Chapel, we were allowed to go enjoy St. Peter's, which was not crowded at the time we went. I had been there in 1953 when only 14 but was eager to see the Pieta again and really was thrilled to see it again even if through glass now.
- Andrys
Jul 23rd, 2007, 10:47 PM
#76
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Thanks, Sarge, KYBourbon and Andrys (et al) for detailed info.
Sarge, I may have made it seem like the blockbusters are "insufferable", when in fact they are sufferable. I still have to hoist up my tolerance for the kind of insensitive "museumgoers" you described. (I can't really think of them as art lovers.) Of course, I could JOIN the Met again, which would allow me to go to some of those shows during members only time periods.
On the other hand I've been able to watch the new series The Power of Art on PBS with no one else in the room at all ...
Sarge, I may have made it seem like the blockbusters are "insufferable", when in fact they are sufferable. I still have to hoist up my tolerance for the kind of insensitive "museumgoers" you described. (I can't really think of them as art lovers.) Of course, I could JOIN the Met again, which would allow me to go to some of those shows during members only time periods.
On the other hand I've been able to watch the new series The Power of Art on PBS with no one else in the room at all ...
Jul 24th, 2007, 12:49 AM
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tomassocroccante,
I do know what you mean, and starting with King Tut. BUT I just remembered that I was in the SF Symphony Chorus at the time and we were singing for the preview audience (rich folks) for the private opening. As a reward, they let us see the show before anyone else arrived, so we had the place to ourselves. When I went back to one room to be mesmerized, alone, by a face in a glass case, two guards stood beside me, looking sure I might disappear with the thing somehow!
What a great way to see the exhibit though! I returned during regular hours and still enjoyed the amazing exhibit.
PBS shows and Discovery Corner (especially on HiDef) can almost substitute for the real thing but not quite. I'm reminded by how absolutely blown away I was by seeing The David in person even after a documentary of it after restoration, close up etc. No comparison, actually. There is something about 3-dimensional space, your being able to view it from all sides not dictated by the cameraman -- but, yes, it's nice to not have the tired feet, shoving crowds and near-collapse from not being able to breathe. BUT in the Accademia, it wasn't too crowded at all. The Sistine was filled with people but very manageable. They let you relax in there, sitting in the pews against the wall and just taking it all in. It helps if one knows the story behind the ordeal of painting it though. I am still in awe of what was done by Michelangelo and fascinated by the details in King's book, "The Pope's Ceiling."
I do know what you mean, and starting with King Tut. BUT I just remembered that I was in the SF Symphony Chorus at the time and we were singing for the preview audience (rich folks) for the private opening. As a reward, they let us see the show before anyone else arrived, so we had the place to ourselves. When I went back to one room to be mesmerized, alone, by a face in a glass case, two guards stood beside me, looking sure I might disappear with the thing somehow!
What a great way to see the exhibit though! I returned during regular hours and still enjoyed the amazing exhibit.
PBS shows and Discovery Corner (especially on HiDef) can almost substitute for the real thing but not quite. I'm reminded by how absolutely blown away I was by seeing The David in person even after a documentary of it after restoration, close up etc. No comparison, actually. There is something about 3-dimensional space, your being able to view it from all sides not dictated by the cameraman -- but, yes, it's nice to not have the tired feet, shoving crowds and near-collapse from not being able to breathe. BUT in the Accademia, it wasn't too crowded at all. The Sistine was filled with people but very manageable. They let you relax in there, sitting in the pews against the wall and just taking it all in. It helps if one knows the story behind the ordeal of painting it though. I am still in awe of what was done by Michelangelo and fascinated by the details in King's book, "The Pope's Ceiling."
Jul 24th, 2007, 01:13 AM
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One problem with having a reservation system is that tour companies will buy all the reservations and then re-sell them for a huge profit. It will be hard for the individual to visit on their own and would require advance reservations. Many tour companies already do this with the Vatican Museum tour.
I think a set number of reservations per day would work with an option to wait in line to enter. Also, at the time of the reservation request full name of each person must be given - no changes allowed. This would help prevent (nothing is fool proof) tour companies from making block reservations for re-sale.
I don't think a seperate entry for the Sistine Chapel would work. There is no way to have people enter and exit easily from here. You have to take the whole thing, not just the parts you want - just like life.
I think a set number of reservations per day would work with an option to wait in line to enter. Also, at the time of the reservation request full name of each person must be given - no changes allowed. This would help prevent (nothing is fool proof) tour companies from making block reservations for re-sale.
I don't think a seperate entry for the Sistine Chapel would work. There is no way to have people enter and exit easily from here. You have to take the whole thing, not just the parts you want - just like life.
Jul 24th, 2007, 04:06 AM
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Ah, suffer the little tourists with their check-lists to come unto the VM. "Go away, you don't have the Proper Appreciation!" 
Well, maybe the check-listers are worthy, maybe not, but the church is renowned for arguing that even if one soul amongst thousands is redeemed, that makes it all worth it. The points about fire control, prevention of damage, etc. are certainly apt, but we should remember that over the course of two milennium, crowds and Christianity have not exactly been mutually exclusive. One is taking on a lot of history here.
Besides, the poor in spirit are already guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven. Nobody said anything about an unobstructed view of an earthly ceiling.
Now, go, ye, and search out the rest of Rome. There's enough religious art in that city that one can all but stub one's toe on it. The VM/Sistine are lovely, but they suffer from promising too much in one place. Sometimes, when it comes to viewing art, less is more.
Well, maybe the check-listers are worthy, maybe not, but the church is renowned for arguing that even if one soul amongst thousands is redeemed, that makes it all worth it. The points about fire control, prevention of damage, etc. are certainly apt, but we should remember that over the course of two milennium, crowds and Christianity have not exactly been mutually exclusive. One is taking on a lot of history here.
Besides, the poor in spirit are already guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven. Nobody said anything about an unobstructed view of an earthly ceiling.
Now, go, ye, and search out the rest of Rome. There's enough religious art in that city that one can all but stub one's toe on it. The VM/Sistine are lovely, but they suffer from promising too much in one place. Sometimes, when it comes to viewing art, less is more.
