Warning Sistine Chapel
Jul 21st, 2007, 09:24 AM
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Warning Sistine Chapel
We recently retruned from a wonderful trip to Italy. Unquestionably, our visit to the Sistine Chapel was the worst part of the trip. One cant just visit the chapel> You need to buy a ticket for the entire Vatican Museum. We didnt mind this so much as it seemed that there would be other great things to see there including the Lacoon sculpture.
When you enter the Vatican complex, there are signs everywhere which appear to point the way to the Sistine Chapel. In fact, if you follow the signs, you are led in a huge mob through rooms and rooms of the Museum (where you see almost nothing due to the crowds) for hours. Although the guards constantly tell you that you are very near the chapel, it took us 2.5 hours to reach the chapel. The crowding was so intense that people were overcome with heat exhaustion.
We eventually reached the chapel 15 minutes before closing time(the Chapel closes 2 hours befroe the Museum) and gurds in the Chapel barked at us to move further and further to the back of the room. When you leave the room, you are on the street and unable to see the rest of the museum.
Of note- most of the romms of the Museum are totally unguarded and the other works of art are not protected from the surging crowds or potential defacement.
At the end of the visit, we felt totally "had" and misled (by the setup and the guards and their assurances that the Chapel was just ahead). The crowding was so intense that in addtion to the fire hazard, the experince was so unpleasant that most of us would have paid a pretty penny to exit the complex.
Oh yes- and we didnt get a chance to see the chapel....
When you enter the Vatican complex, there are signs everywhere which appear to point the way to the Sistine Chapel. In fact, if you follow the signs, you are led in a huge mob through rooms and rooms of the Museum (where you see almost nothing due to the crowds) for hours. Although the guards constantly tell you that you are very near the chapel, it took us 2.5 hours to reach the chapel. The crowding was so intense that people were overcome with heat exhaustion.
We eventually reached the chapel 15 minutes before closing time(the Chapel closes 2 hours befroe the Museum) and gurds in the Chapel barked at us to move further and further to the back of the room. When you leave the room, you are on the street and unable to see the rest of the museum.
Of note- most of the romms of the Museum are totally unguarded and the other works of art are not protected from the surging crowds or potential defacement.
At the end of the visit, we felt totally "had" and misled (by the setup and the guards and their assurances that the Chapel was just ahead). The crowding was so intense that in addtion to the fire hazard, the experince was so unpleasant that most of us would have paid a pretty penny to exit the complex.
Oh yes- and we didnt get a chance to see the chapel....
Jul 21st, 2007, 09:30 AM
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I could not agree more, we had the exact same experience last Sept. I thought that once we had seen the sistine chapel we would be able to go back and look at the other rooms at our leisure but as you say you are pushed along until you are in the chapel and before you know it you are back on the street. It was also spoilt for us while in the actual chapel by the guards shushing everyone very loudly, they were making more noise than the tourists! I certainly would not waste my money by going back.
Jul 21st, 2007, 09:33 AM
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Well, it is possible to visit the museum and chapel on your own, at night. The cost is extraordinarily high.
There are millions of people that wish to visit the museums and chapel, thus it is crowded, as are all great museums.
While it was very crowded during our visit last year, this did not make it terrible for us, we just accepted the crowds and enjoyed the surroundings.
There have been innumerable threads on this board about the Sistine being part of the Museum. Also, many of us have written several on how to exit the Sistine directly into St. Peter's.
Sorry you hated your visit.
dave
There are millions of people that wish to visit the museums and chapel, thus it is crowded, as are all great museums.
While it was very crowded during our visit last year, this did not make it terrible for us, we just accepted the crowds and enjoyed the surroundings.
There have been innumerable threads on this board about the Sistine being part of the Museum. Also, many of us have written several on how to exit the Sistine directly into St. Peter's.
Sorry you hated your visit.
dave
Jul 21st, 2007, 09:37 AM
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Is this happening to everyone these days? I was there in June,10 years ago and had an absolutely opposite experience.
This is terrible. I'd actually write to the Vatican tourist office and tell them how disappointing this was for you. They need to hear this loud and often.
This is terrible. I'd actually write to the Vatican tourist office and tell them how disappointing this was for you. They need to hear this loud and often.
Jul 21st, 2007, 10:01 AM
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The crowds and long lines are evident everyday that I am over in Rome for work.Our bus that takes us to and from the airport always goes past the vatican and the lines are always long and horrible especially with the horrible heat that Rome has been having. If you are going,be sure to take an umbrella for the sun,water to drink and a crossword/suduko book,etc. to keep busy.Its not pleasant people!
Jul 21st, 2007, 10:23 AM
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Jul 21st, 2007, 08:16 PM
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Unfortunately, all 2,000,000 visitors to Rome every year have the Sistine Chapel on their "must see" list. There are simply too many people in the peak months: you can figure that half that 2 million probably arrive June-through-Aug. That comes down to about 100,000 per day through the summer. Frankly I think the Vatican museums would be wise to triple the entry fee simply because of the demand - not to price anyone out, but it's too many visitors, many of whom are just ticking that item off their lists. (And timed entry and exit may be in the future.)
On the other hand, other than the equally packed Raphael rooms and the path to those and the chapel, the museums are not terribly crowded in my experience. The Pinacoteca is particularly deserted - which makes viewing masterworks like Raphael's Transfiguration a profound pleasure.
My first trip to the Vatican I skipped the chapel: there simply was no time to see it, the mob was off-putting, and there was too much else to reward me. My next trip we arrived before opening, went directly to the SC once we entered, and viewed it almost alone. (There was no "end of the tour" exit after, by the way, at least on our visit - or if there was it wasn't mandatory - we simply continued on into the galleries.) Seeing the chapel in peace and quiet was the transporting experience you seek - but it's a hard one to get during regular hours - I know because we passed through again just an hour later and it was like a train station. I believe that new tour group priorities have made it difficult for individuals to enter before groups and have that moment.
On the other hand, other than the equally packed Raphael rooms and the path to those and the chapel, the museums are not terribly crowded in my experience. The Pinacoteca is particularly deserted - which makes viewing masterworks like Raphael's Transfiguration a profound pleasure.
My first trip to the Vatican I skipped the chapel: there simply was no time to see it, the mob was off-putting, and there was too much else to reward me. My next trip we arrived before opening, went directly to the SC once we entered, and viewed it almost alone. (There was no "end of the tour" exit after, by the way, at least on our visit - or if there was it wasn't mandatory - we simply continued on into the galleries.) Seeing the chapel in peace and quiet was the transporting experience you seek - but it's a hard one to get during regular hours - I know because we passed through again just an hour later and it was like a train station. I believe that new tour group priorities have made it difficult for individuals to enter before groups and have that moment.
Jul 21st, 2007, 08:33 PM
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Tim and Liz-I am in shock that you spent that kind of money to go with the Irish lady who used to advertise on here all the time...are you sure you are not her under a different name? I am sorry to say this(and it my opinion) but I still think that 250 euros a person is a ripoff for a 2 hour tour. As others have said, going a different time of the year or perhaps a less expensive tour is the way to go.This is up there with the 500 euros per person tour to Pompeii!
Jul 21st, 2007, 09:17 PM
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My empathy! To avoid this, we did go during the first week of May. There are other things people can do to help minimize these horrors, but July is a very tough month for trying to see that chapel.
For about 8 euros add'l, you can fax the Vatican to register for their regular "guided tour" with a guide and headphones to hear the guide no matter how far away they might be at the moment.
I faxed them but they don't like to answer until a couple of days before the day you select.
When we got to Rome, the fax was waiting for us at the hotel though! We avoided the long snaking line that went all around St. Peter's and walked up to the guards at the exit doors, who had a signup sheet with our names on it.
And we went right in. The guided tour stops before the Sistine Chapel, where you are on your own as everyone is supposed to be quiet when in there. But as others have pointed out, they're always shouting to hush people and trying to enforce the no-photos rule.
Info from the Vatican site:
http://mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/z-In...zi_Visite.html
===
"GUIDED TOURS FOR INDIVIDUALS:
VATICAN MUSEUMS AND SISTINE CHAPEL (2 hours)
The tour itinerary takes visitors through the most significant cultural and religious areas within the Vatican Museums: the Pio Clementino (classical antiquity), the Geographical Maps and Tapestries Galleries (Renaissance art), the Raphael's Rooms and The Sistine Chapel.
From March through October:
from Monday through Friday at: 10.30am - 12.00pm - 2.00pm;
on Saturday at: 10.30am and 11.15am
From November through February: everyday but Sundays at 10.30a.m.
Rates: full fare 23.50 [euros]; reduced 18.50 [euros]
The above rates include admission to the Museums, guided tour service and headset.
. . .
Fax reservation : 06 6988 5100
"
=======
At any rate,
Faxing or phoning Italy can be done from the US for 10c/minute via the 1016868 number that can be dialed as a prefix to the actual number on the site just before country code. So you'd dial
1016868 39 06 6988 5100
when faxing your request.
They need your names, a fax number to reply to (I gave both my U.S. office and my Rome hotel numbers), and address.
They used to reply to email but are not responding to that these days, though they might email you after you fax them, if close enough to the date you'd be visiting.
It was really worth doing this!
I have photos from our experience of the Vatican tour and the Sistine Chapel (the latter not easy) at http://www.pbase.com/andrys/sistine
After the tour, we just stayed inside and went to St. Peter's and did that at our leisure. I'd seen the Pieta in '53 and now it's behind glass but still beautiful.
After I returned, I read the book by Ross King "Michelangelo and the Pope's Ceiling" and it's a fascinating history of the times and especially the intrigue -- Including between competing artists. I wish I'd read it before going. So I always recommend that.
- Andrys
For about 8 euros add'l, you can fax the Vatican to register for their regular "guided tour" with a guide and headphones to hear the guide no matter how far away they might be at the moment.
I faxed them but they don't like to answer until a couple of days before the day you select.
When we got to Rome, the fax was waiting for us at the hotel though! We avoided the long snaking line that went all around St. Peter's and walked up to the guards at the exit doors, who had a signup sheet with our names on it.
And we went right in. The guided tour stops before the Sistine Chapel, where you are on your own as everyone is supposed to be quiet when in there. But as others have pointed out, they're always shouting to hush people and trying to enforce the no-photos rule.
Info from the Vatican site:
http://mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/z-In...zi_Visite.html
===
"GUIDED TOURS FOR INDIVIDUALS:
VATICAN MUSEUMS AND SISTINE CHAPEL (2 hours)
The tour itinerary takes visitors through the most significant cultural and religious areas within the Vatican Museums: the Pio Clementino (classical antiquity), the Geographical Maps and Tapestries Galleries (Renaissance art), the Raphael's Rooms and The Sistine Chapel.
From March through October:
from Monday through Friday at: 10.30am - 12.00pm - 2.00pm;
on Saturday at: 10.30am and 11.15am
From November through February: everyday but Sundays at 10.30a.m.
Rates: full fare 23.50 [euros]; reduced 18.50 [euros]
The above rates include admission to the Museums, guided tour service and headset.
. . .
Fax reservation : 06 6988 5100
"
=======
At any rate,
Faxing or phoning Italy can be done from the US for 10c/minute via the 1016868 number that can be dialed as a prefix to the actual number on the site just before country code. So you'd dial
1016868 39 06 6988 5100
when faxing your request.
They need your names, a fax number to reply to (I gave both my U.S. office and my Rome hotel numbers), and address.
They used to reply to email but are not responding to that these days, though they might email you after you fax them, if close enough to the date you'd be visiting.
It was really worth doing this!
I have photos from our experience of the Vatican tour and the Sistine Chapel (the latter not easy) at http://www.pbase.com/andrys/sistine
After the tour, we just stayed inside and went to St. Peter's and did that at our leisure. I'd seen the Pieta in '53 and now it's behind glass but still beautiful.
After I returned, I read the book by Ross King "Michelangelo and the Pope's Ceiling" and it's a fascinating history of the times and especially the intrigue -- Including between competing artists. I wish I'd read it before going. So I always recommend that.
- Andrys
Jul 21st, 2007, 11:56 PM
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My partner and I went to the Vatican Museum at the end of May. We got in line around 12:30 or so and was inside the museum within 15 minutes.
The trek to the Sistine Chapel WAS crowded in many spots but we expected that. Saw some great things along the way but couldn't linger. Again, I wasn't surprised at that.
The chapel was crowded, guards kept trying to quiet people, etc. So was it the "perfect" experience? No. Was it worth it to me? You bet. We stayed in the chapel for around 15 minutes or so just soaking it in and trying to tune out the mob around me. Not easy...but it meant too much to me to not make the attempt.
When we left, my partner was "museumed out" so he departed to sit in a cafe nearby. I was able to continue on to see several other things I was interested in and left about a half hour later. Happlily I was not shoved out into the street.
Was the environment ideal? No. Did I think it worth the difficulty? Absolutely. Just be prepared to encounter big crowds if you visit the VM in the peak months unless you spend the money for a private tour...or unless the visiting rules change somehow...like the Scavi tour where no one goes in without a reservation and a guide.
LeeParis
The trek to the Sistine Chapel WAS crowded in many spots but we expected that. Saw some great things along the way but couldn't linger. Again, I wasn't surprised at that.
The chapel was crowded, guards kept trying to quiet people, etc. So was it the "perfect" experience? No. Was it worth it to me? You bet. We stayed in the chapel for around 15 minutes or so just soaking it in and trying to tune out the mob around me. Not easy...but it meant too much to me to not make the attempt.
When we left, my partner was "museumed out" so he departed to sit in a cafe nearby. I was able to continue on to see several other things I was interested in and left about a half hour later. Happlily I was not shoved out into the street.
Was the environment ideal? No. Did I think it worth the difficulty? Absolutely. Just be prepared to encounter big crowds if you visit the VM in the peak months unless you spend the money for a private tour...or unless the visiting rules change somehow...like the Scavi tour where no one goes in without a reservation and a guide.
LeeParis
Jul 22nd, 2007, 12:24 AM
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We also used the Vatican's tour which we faxed the request. Yes, the Vatican Museum is crowded, but it is worth it. As tourism continues to explode exponentially in Europe, we can expect that customising the tours so you can go back and revisit the rest of the museum.
I agree there should be more clarity on how it all works. One lady in wheelchair had queued up with the crowds to be told there was no wheelchair access. I felt for her.
It was a Saturday and when we exited we were told that St Peters was closing at one pm. It would have been ice to hear this earlier but so be it.
I really enjoyed our tour and the guide was excellent.
PS alway exit from the back right corner of the Chapel and you can enter St Peters without having line up for security clearance again.
I agree there should be more clarity on how it all works. One lady in wheelchair had queued up with the crowds to be told there was no wheelchair access. I felt for her.
It was a Saturday and when we exited we were told that St Peters was closing at one pm. It would have been ice to hear this earlier but so be it.
I really enjoyed our tour and the guide was excellent.
PS alway exit from the back right corner of the Chapel and you can enter St Peters without having line up for security clearance again.
Jul 22nd, 2007, 01:06 AM
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At the back left of the chapel is an exit that leads you back into the museum.
We joined a group with with a tour guide touting outside for about 15e, well worth it, as they led us through some of the major parts of the museum for just over an hour, then took us to the Sisine Chapel, then pointed out the different doors so you could choose whether to go back into the museum to wander about a bit more on your own (we did) or exit. The museum is so massive that I think we'd have missed a lot without a guide, she added so much to our visit, and it was also fun just to wander a bit ourselves.
We joined a group with with a tour guide touting outside for about 15e, well worth it, as they led us through some of the major parts of the museum for just over an hour, then took us to the Sisine Chapel, then pointed out the different doors so you could choose whether to go back into the museum to wander about a bit more on your own (we did) or exit. The museum is so massive that I think we'd have missed a lot without a guide, she added so much to our visit, and it was also fun just to wander a bit ourselves.
Jul 22nd, 2007, 01:55 AM
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lyceempmoliere
It's really too bad you weren't able to enjoy the Sistine Chapel.
I was lucky (and worked at making my own luck) to enjoy the Sistine Chapel for a brief 40 seconds on my own! I was traveling solo, so it was probably easier for me to do than if I'd been with someone. I arrived very early so I got a spot near the front of the line, and as soon as I bought my ticket, I rushed quickly past people through all the rooms and apartments without stopping. I kept telling the guards along the way I was in a big hurry to get to the Sistine Chapel... I think a couple of them were amused by the sight of me racing along... and when I got there, I was the first one! I stepped into the empty chapel and had the most amazing, jaw-dropping 40-second time to contemplate everything before the crowds started filing in. Was it worth all the rush? Oooh, yessss! Afterwards, I backtracked and saw things I rushed past earlier.
It's really too bad you weren't able to enjoy the Sistine Chapel.
I was lucky (and worked at making my own luck) to enjoy the Sistine Chapel for a brief 40 seconds on my own! I was traveling solo, so it was probably easier for me to do than if I'd been with someone. I arrived very early so I got a spot near the front of the line, and as soon as I bought my ticket, I rushed quickly past people through all the rooms and apartments without stopping. I kept telling the guards along the way I was in a big hurry to get to the Sistine Chapel... I think a couple of them were amused by the sight of me racing along... and when I got there, I was the first one! I stepped into the empty chapel and had the most amazing, jaw-dropping 40-second time to contemplate everything before the crowds started filing in. Was it worth all the rush? Oooh, yessss! Afterwards, I backtracked and saw things I rushed past earlier.
