xyz123

That's almost as bad as the NYC cops pulling a scam several years ago that the mayor said was perfectly okay.

These clowns, of course, have quotas of tickets so some cops in the Bronx used a lightly travelled street which had a sensor which only turned the traffic light when a car rode over it so as a luckless motorist approached the inteersection, they ran over the sensor causing the light facing the luckless driver to turn red and ticketing him for passing a red light.

This is a documented fact. The mayor, always looking for money to screw the public, said it was perfectly acceptable to him.

Cops all over the world have quotas they have to meet and if they're behind schedule, they will do most anything to catch up even if it means snagging an innocent person.

bozama

We4ll, like some here I also think you did the crime now pay the fine, BUT, I do not think it is nice to set up tourists,, if that is what happened.. which I am not saying did or did not.

Here where I live ( tourist town and cruise ship port) we do not ticket tourist for parking in no parking zones in certain very touristy areas. They get a "Courtesy Warning" ticket on their windsill.

I kind of think that the metro police should be a little more understanding, not perhaps in this case, but tourists have been fined for not keeping their tickets untill they are out on the street ( not everyone realizes you should do this ) .

OP One point no one has mentioned, but I wonder about,, is perhaps you used a cancelled ticket,, I always am careful to keep them seperate, the used and unused, but it is an easy mistake. Without my glasses I can't tell them apart, and so I actually rip a tiny tear soon as I use a ticket, not enough to 'wreck the ticket , just enough to make it different.

clairobscur

There's no way they were "entrapping tourists".

1)Tickets sometimes don't work.

2)People passing the turnstile with someone else in order not to pay is common.

3)RATP "cops" waiting out of view just after the turnstiles is *very* common.

By doing 3) they catch many people who do 2). They don't need nor use people posing as regular guys and offering help to pass the turnstile.

You just accepted help from a random stranger who thought it was OK to let you pass with her, so doing entered the metro system without a valid ticket, and got fined for it. That's all there is to your story.

They *do* wait for people like you behind the turnstiles, but aren't entrapping anybody nor specifically targeting people who happened to have a non-working ticket. But they don't let you go away with it, regardless of your excuses. Any people who want to ride the metro for free is likely to have some excuse or another, and they just ignore them.

You say they acknowledged your story was true, but even this isn't obvious. From what I've seen over the years of the subway "cops", they very commonly are agreeable with whatever bullshit the cheater is feeding them, and just insist on him unfortunately still having to pay the fine. I've also seen once a documentary about the working of a metro line, and it included a segment about the "cops", featuring a new trainee. They train them to do just that. Don't be confrontational, just smile at the excuses, and fine the culprit.

So,for all I know, the "cop" didn't believe a word of what you said. And even if he did, he would have fined you all the same. In all likelihood, he actually couldn't care less about whether you were truthful or not. First because you were actually trying to ride the metro without a ticket, so the fine was justified, and second because he spends his days, week after week and month after month fining people who most of the time explain to him why they shouldn't be fined. He probably was as interested by your story as an office drone is interested by the colour of the paper clip he's using. Probably less so, actually.


The only time I've been fined on the subway, I hadn't yet reported my "carte orange" number on the coupon. It was the beginning of the month and I had forgotten. The "cop" was very sympathetic to my plea, but I still had to pay the fine.

clairobscur

Also, in case that's what raised your suspicions : when two persons pass the turnstile with the same ticket, they only fine the person without ticket, not the one who helped him pass, from what I've seen.

I suspect(not know)that the reason is that many people don't know or don't dare to say "no" when asked to do so (and it's not rare to be asked)and besides some cheaters don't even ask, they just stick behind you and pass at the same time. You get a stranger stuck against you back, and who's going to push you if you try to stop. It would probably lead to endless arguments if they tried to fine the "helpers" too.

bozama

Hello, if the metro police were just out of site, but SAW him pass illegally,, please, explain to me how they didn't SEE him trying to use the malfunctioning ticket.. THEY DID and they didn't offer to help , and I do believe if OP actually tried to insert ticket a few times, they would have seen him.

I still think they should give a tourist a break, it is locals cheating who drain the system( and do it repeatly), I do not believe tourists ever actually TRY to rip off the system,, yah right , I spent 1000 dollars on an airline ticket but I 'm too cheap to buy a metro ticket!!!!

I agree that OP should not have cheated, and he has to pay,, but I think if the police actaully WITNESSED him struggling with machine and he has a malfuncitoning ticket in his hand, that they should not have fined him, just warned him.

clairobscur

Did they see him? The OP didn't say that.He stated that "they acknowledged it was true", but as I wrote above, they would probably have acknowledged it too if he had been stating that Batman had just stolen his ticket and ran away with it. And then fined him.

Don't assume they asked to see his ticket because they saw him passing illegally. There is generally a bunch of them (5 or 6) and they check everybody's ticket/pass.

The OP mentioned they were hidden (which is consistent with their usual behaviour). If he couldn't see them, they probably couldn't see him, either. And assuming that for some reason they could, they might not have been paying attention.

As for giving somebody a break? They don't. They listen to you politely and fine you (generally at the same time. That's what you see them doing in the metro : they're at an ambush point, writing a ticket while nodding at someone explaining why he shouldn't be ticketed).

For the record, when they aren't hidden at a corner right after the turnstiles, they're generally hidden at a corner right before the exit (so that people won't turn back upon seeing them). So, don't throw away your ticket before you actually left the subway system.
They rarely check tickets in the trains or on the platforms.

clairobscur

Just reread the OP. In fact, he mentions that "they did not stop the woman".

Then, assuming that's true, maybe they did see the woman putting the ticket in and him passing at the same time. That's possible. Picturing my own subway station and the spot where they generally hide there, it still doesn't prove they could see him struggling with his ticket.

In any case, I'm not going to believe they had an "agent provocateur" waiting, on the off chance that an unsuspecting tourist who happens to have a non-working ticket would turn up, so that she could entrap him. This is just absurd.

kerouac

Those who don't think tourists try to get away without paying for minor transportation in foreign countries are being really naïve.

I have heard so many of them -- in all age groups -- brag about what they got away with on their vacation.

Anyway, I am also wondering how people can believe that they are "targeting" tourists. Has it become obligatory for tourists to wear some big badge that says "TOURIST" when they are out and about so that they can be identified as such? 18% of the population of Paris is comprised of foreigners already, who may sometimes try to pass themselves off as tourists to get away with something.

ira

Hey W,

You might be correct about the cops standing around waiting to catch people trying to get on the train without paying, bit it is hardly a scam.

How different is it from a police car with radar catching speeders?

dwzemens

Being a retired municipal police officer, I can tell you that quotas exist at all levels of police enforcement.

Just get over it. The police are technically correct.

azzure

While I agree that this isn't a scam, I think some of you are being a little harsh toward the OP. After all, he/she did have a valid, paid-for ticket, and it is not his/her fault that the ticket didn't work. Sure, the OP could have gone back and sought to get a working ticket, but I think most of us in the confusion of the moment might accept the kind intentions of a stranger.

The whole incident makes me think twice about riding the Paris metro. While the Metro-Cops may be "technically correct", they could cut a little slack for someone who was not really trying to cheat them.

kerouac

With that kind of attitude, soon we'll have people trying to sneak 3 people into a hotel room for 2 people.

Christina

sorry, I don't think we are being harsh at all. No intelligent adult tries to "sneak" into places, they know perfectly well it is against rules. It has nothing to do with being "confused" or confusion. I wouldn't do that in the US in my hometown, it has nothing to do with that. Nobody would legitimately think it was okay to force yourself into a place that is ticketed without going through proper channels. A child, might, I agree, but not an adult.

StCirq

I totally disagree that "most of us in the confusion of the moment might accept the kind intentions of a stranger." I certainly wouldn't.

First of all, I can't see being all that "confused." The ticket doesn't work, is all. Two possible reasons would spring immediately to mind: I'd already used it, or there was something wrong with it. I could easily check to see if it had been used before. If it hadn't, I'd go right back to the ticket window and ask for help. Nothing confusing about that.

And I would never assume a stranger offering to let me go through a turnstile with her had "kind intentions." Quite the opposite. I would assume it was some sort of nefarious deal and she was putting me and possibly her in a potentially bad situation (which she was). Anyone who's ever ridden a metro or bus anywhere knows you have to have a valid ticket to use the system.

Christina

BTW azzure, if you now don't want to ride the Paris metro because they are so mean that they fine people for jumping turnstiles, forcing yourself in with someone on another ticket, etc., you will have to avoid public transportation about everywhere, I think. They wouldn't put up with that where I live in the US, either (which has a metro line). There was another post by someone on Fodors who has forgotten their ticket and left it back in their hotel room and claimed it was a scam that they got fined for riding the tram without a ticket at all because in their mind they knew they had one back in the hotel. I believe they were also whining about tourists being targeted as they were fined (in Prague) for riding without a ticket and apparently their logic was that only a tourist would be dumb enough to do something like that so they shouldn't get fined.

People need to grow up and start acting sensibly and stop trying to blame others when they do dumb things.

dwzemens

I have to confess that in 2004 my wife and I rode the RER from central Paris to the stop that took us to Versailles.

We had a Carte Orange and legitimately thought that we could ride to Versailles as part of the package.

Once at Versailles, we were surprised and shocked to see that we needed a ticket to *leave* the RER. There were turnstiles blocking our exit.

So we did what any self respecting 50 year olds would do - we climbed over the turnstiles!

I have to admit that on the return trip I thought our photos would be plastered about the station and we would be summarily arrested. But we were not.

So, I have been on both ends of this saga. As a police offer, I met my quota, but as a traveler I did the best I could with good intentions.

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

Robespierre

<i>...we climbed over the turnstiles!...as a traveler I did the best I could with good intentions.</i>

What's wrong with this picture?

azzure

Not to beat a dead horse, but St. Cirq and Christina -- did you miss the part where the OP said she had PAID for a ticket? She wasn't trying to cheat or obtain a free ride.

Of course I will continue to ride the Paris metro, but I for one am grateful that wjg posted this information, because in his/her shoes, with crowds queueing up behind me trying to get through the turnstile, I might have done the very same thing. And now I won't. Forewarned is forearmed.

Zeus

Now I remember why I stopped posting here... Always someone to scold you no matter wht you do or what advice you offer....

StCirq

No, I absolutely did not miss the part where she said she PAID for the ticket. I guess in her mind she wasn't trying to get a free ride, technically, but she sure was trying to cheat, the minute she went through that turnstile.

I've PAID for tickets that don't work, too, and I don't go jumping turnstiles or glomming onto someone else going through them. In DC, where I ride the metro fairly often, occasionally a metro ticket stops working because the magnetic stripe gets messed up through contact with something like a credit card. So I've had a situation where I legitimately had $15-$20 worth of metro rides on a ticket that doesn't work when you put it in the machine. Does that mean I would be justified in finding a way to get through to the platform anyway, without properly inserting the ticket and having it recognized and the correct amount deducted from it....because I've actually PAID for the ticket already? Of COURSE not! I take the malfunctioning ticket to the ticket window and get the problem fixed!

Honestly, this is all so clear and simple to me.