Warning: Garmin GPS navigations systems do no work well in Europe
Jul 31st, 2008, 05:14 AM
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Warning: Garmin GPS navigations systems do no work well in Europe
I have already used about a dozen different navigation systems in Europe, and, hence, I know that no system is perfect.
But Garmin systems have really heavy shortcomings in Europe.
Here my experiences after 10 days driving through England with my brand new Garmin 670 TFM:
Problem #1: The system mistakes overlays for junctions. We came from a restaurant in a small town on one of those extremely narrow, windy, single-track roads. The system sent us to the next primary road, but when it told us to turn right, we found ourselves on the bottom of a valley whereas the primary road spanned the valley on a bridge high above our heads. The system rerouted, and after some kilometers, we were on the bridge and crossed the primary road instead of entering it. As this seemed to go on forever, we switched off the Garmin, looked on our map and turned.
Problem #2: The Garmin does not know small villages. You cannot enter villages as destinations. In Europe, this is important because many restaurants, B&Bs and attractions are in or nearby small villages. You need also small villages, e.g. to drive scenic roads.
Problem #3: The Garmin mistakes urban quarters. E.g. we wanted to drive to 99 Rectory Road in Oxford (part of Oriel College) but the system sent us to a Rectory Road in a suburb. To have several roads with the same name in one town is normal in European cities. European navigation systems in these cases display a list with several options, but not the Garmin. Strangely, when we used our streetmap to drive to the right Rectory Road, the Garmin displayed the street with its proper name on the map (but does not have it in the database for addresses).
These are really heavy problems, and I have the feeling that the Garmin programmers simply do not have an understanding of the structure of European towns. (Historically, towns developed from villages; and you still need to know the village or urban quarter, even after it has been incorporated).
Instead, Garmin programmers heavily rely on the address concept. But many European destinations (esp. attractions) do not have an address.
Conclusion:
- Do not buy a Garmin for navigating in Europe. Better buy a European product.
- If you have a Garmin, do not rely on it but always make sure you have a detailed (1:200,000) map.
- Before you start, do a lot of research on your destination.
- Be careful with postal addresses. The postal address of a hotel or attraction might be very different from its actual location.
But Garmin systems have really heavy shortcomings in Europe.
Here my experiences after 10 days driving through England with my brand new Garmin 670 TFM:
Problem #1: The system mistakes overlays for junctions. We came from a restaurant in a small town on one of those extremely narrow, windy, single-track roads. The system sent us to the next primary road, but when it told us to turn right, we found ourselves on the bottom of a valley whereas the primary road spanned the valley on a bridge high above our heads. The system rerouted, and after some kilometers, we were on the bridge and crossed the primary road instead of entering it. As this seemed to go on forever, we switched off the Garmin, looked on our map and turned.
Problem #2: The Garmin does not know small villages. You cannot enter villages as destinations. In Europe, this is important because many restaurants, B&Bs and attractions are in or nearby small villages. You need also small villages, e.g. to drive scenic roads.
Problem #3: The Garmin mistakes urban quarters. E.g. we wanted to drive to 99 Rectory Road in Oxford (part of Oriel College) but the system sent us to a Rectory Road in a suburb. To have several roads with the same name in one town is normal in European cities. European navigation systems in these cases display a list with several options, but not the Garmin. Strangely, when we used our streetmap to drive to the right Rectory Road, the Garmin displayed the street with its proper name on the map (but does not have it in the database for addresses).
These are really heavy problems, and I have the feeling that the Garmin programmers simply do not have an understanding of the structure of European towns. (Historically, towns developed from villages; and you still need to know the village or urban quarter, even after it has been incorporated).
Instead, Garmin programmers heavily rely on the address concept. But many European destinations (esp. attractions) do not have an address.
Conclusion:
- Do not buy a Garmin for navigating in Europe. Better buy a European product.
- If you have a Garmin, do not rely on it but always make sure you have a detailed (1:200,000) map.
- Before you start, do a lot of research on your destination.
- Be careful with postal addresses. The postal address of a hotel or attraction might be very different from its actual location.
Jul 31st, 2008, 06:41 AM
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I live in Italy and have never had the problems you describe using my Garmin Nuvi, which I think is a 600 series. However, I think it is up to you to know when a village has been incorporated into a city. You really can't expect to try to enter, say, "Westminster" when you are looking for the abbey in London, and not enter "London."
And my Garmin often asks me which "via Garibaldi" I want, in which postal code or town.
You've concluded based on your experience that the system doesn't work in "Europe." Might I point out that you only used it England?
Yes, you will always need a good map even if you've got a GPS. And you need to research your destination even if have a GPS. And even with a GPS, you're going to need to get the hang of driving to destinations where you are best guided by local signage than a map or GPS of any kind.
I actually don't like GPS systems because I don't like the piecemeal "do this, now do that, do this" instructions. I'd rather have it my head where I'm going and how far it is rather than just follow along. But it has worked for me in some of the knottiest Italian villages and towns, and I don't hesitate to recommend it.
And my Garmin often asks me which "via Garibaldi" I want, in which postal code or town.
You've concluded based on your experience that the system doesn't work in "Europe." Might I point out that you only used it England?
Yes, you will always need a good map even if you've got a GPS. And you need to research your destination even if have a GPS. And even with a GPS, you're going to need to get the hang of driving to destinations where you are best guided by local signage than a map or GPS of any kind.
I actually don't like GPS systems because I don't like the piecemeal "do this, now do that, do this" instructions. I'd rather have it my head where I'm going and how far it is rather than just follow along. But it has worked for me in some of the knottiest Italian villages and towns, and I don't hesitate to recommend it.
Jul 31st, 2008, 06:52 AM
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Sorry, traveller1959, but I also have to disagree. We used our new Garmin 670 in Germany and Austria last September and it worked amazingly well. Whatever errors we encountered were due to our mistakes and not the Garmins.
One thing we did discover though is if you miss a turn, it is better to try to just turn around than to go through the "recalculating" steps as these are sometimes cumbersome.
On one occasion, the Garmin did take us down a one lane road in Germany as we attempted to get to Berchtesgaden. We were somewhat perplexed but continued on as the scenery was amazing. After a little while we came out onto the highway into Berchtesgaden but the Garmin had saved us about 30 minutes by taking the short cut instead of the way we would have gone using the map.
One thing we did discover though is if you miss a turn, it is better to try to just turn around than to go through the "recalculating" steps as these are sometimes cumbersome.
On one occasion, the Garmin did take us down a one lane road in Germany as we attempted to get to Berchtesgaden. We were somewhat perplexed but continued on as the scenery was amazing. After a little while we came out onto the highway into Berchtesgaden but the Garmin had saved us about 30 minutes by taking the short cut instead of the way we would have gone using the map.
Jul 31st, 2008, 08:12 AM
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We just drove from Munich to Salzburg to Vienna to Krakow to Budapest. We were in the Munich- Salzburg area for 1 week and used the Garmin Nuvi for daytrips everyday. It worked beautifully. After we left Vienna, my husband (for some reason), still trying to understand what, decided he KNEW better then the GPS. What a mess. We left Vienna around 2:00, and didn't get to Krakow until 11:00! The Garmin GPS works. Maybe not in England, but on the continent, if you listen to it, it works!
Jul 31st, 2008, 01:32 PM
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traveller1959, again I have to disagree.
When we arrived at Frankfurt Airport last September, we got a taxi to take us to Kelsterbach to the Avis Rental car office.
We gave the taxi driver the address and he said he had a Tom Tom GPS. Well, he ended up taking us to some field where there obviously wasn't an Avis office.
My husband dug into his carry on bag and pulled out our Garmin Nuvi 670. Once we located a satellite, it was only a matter of minutes before he had us at the right address. Unfortunately, the taxi driver wasted about 6 or 8 Euro of our money while relying on his Tom Tom!
When we arrived at Frankfurt Airport last September, we got a taxi to take us to Kelsterbach to the Avis Rental car office.
We gave the taxi driver the address and he said he had a Tom Tom GPS. Well, he ended up taking us to some field where there obviously wasn't an Avis office.
My husband dug into his carry on bag and pulled out our Garmin Nuvi 670. Once we located a satellite, it was only a matter of minutes before he had us at the right address. Unfortunately, the taxi driver wasted about 6 or 8 Euro of our money while relying on his Tom Tom!
Jul 31st, 2008, 01:46 PM
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I have used Tomtom, Garmin and Smartnav, which is integrated into my car and for which I pay a subscription, in Europe and the UK and they all go for a walkabout sometimes or provide something less than the best route. None are perfect. There are plenty of stories of large vehicles getting stuck in narrow lanes and fields in the British press, and no doubt elsewhere too.
No software is error-free. Mapping databases need to be updated and corrected regularly for the best results. There can't be any doubt that GPS systems have got to be the way ahead when it comes to road navigation. But use conventional maps as a back-up and have an idea in your head where you are likely to need to go - only that combination will provide the best solution.
No software is error-free. Mapping databases need to be updated and corrected regularly for the best results. There can't be any doubt that GPS systems have got to be the way ahead when it comes to road navigation. But use conventional maps as a back-up and have an idea in your head where you are likely to need to go - only that combination will provide the best solution.
Jul 31st, 2008, 02:01 PM
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I'll join the list of devotees of Garmin. We used our Nuvi 370 extensively this May/June in France. I took it along our walks in Paris as a backup since I generally knew how to get where I was going. It was our primary means of navigation our week in Provence and our week on the Cote d'Azur. We followed the Dentelles Loop in western Provence simply by inputting the names of the villages/towns we wanted to go through (in contrast to traeller1959's experience) and did the same in our travels to Lourmarin, Gordes, Roussillon, Lacoste, etc., as well as our trip to Arles and the Camargue (inputting Stes. Marie de la Mer). And during our week based in St. Jean Cap Ferrat we had no problems getting around (by car).
One of the nice features of Garmin (and it's likely available on TomTom as well) is the ability to look for parking places/lots. When you don't know the towns you're driving into and simply want to park and walk around, it's nice not to have to wonder whether you'll find a place to park.
And I look forward to using Garmin in 2009 when we go to Le Marche in Italy and back to Provence (I hope). Maybe we'll even take it on our Baltic/St. Petersburg cruise for walking about.
Sam
P.S. We also had our Michelin maps for Provence and the Cote d'Azur as much for reassurance and the ability to see the big picture more easily.
One of the nice features of Garmin (and it's likely available on TomTom as well) is the ability to look for parking places/lots. When you don't know the towns you're driving into and simply want to park and walk around, it's nice not to have to wonder whether you'll find a place to park.
And I look forward to using Garmin in 2009 when we go to Le Marche in Italy and back to Provence (I hope). Maybe we'll even take it on our Baltic/St. Petersburg cruise for walking about.
Sam
P.S. We also had our Michelin maps for Provence and the Cote d'Azur as much for reassurance and the ability to see the big picture more easily.
Jul 31st, 2008, 04:59 PM
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cafegoddess, according to the June Consumer Reports, the Garmin Nuvi 760 and Garmin Nuvi 660 were rated No. 1 and No. 2.
They also said that variations of the 760 (750, 770 and 780) and of the 660 (650, 670 and 680) are comparable to the tested model.
Their highest rated Best Buy was the Garmin Nuvi 350 (360 and 370) at No. 4.
They also said that variations of the 760 (750, 770 and 780) and of the 660 (650, 670 and 680) are comparable to the tested model.
Their highest rated Best Buy was the Garmin Nuvi 350 (360 and 370) at No. 4.
Jul 31st, 2008, 05:14 PM
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I don't know whether this story is true or an urban myth. Several years ago, it was reported that a driver in Germany followed the instructions spoken by his GPS one dark night, and he drove right into the Rhine.
The GPS forgot to tell him to wait for the ferry.
The GPS forgot to tell him to wait for the ferry.
Aug 1st, 2008, 03:23 AM
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My god, some of the folks here write as if they were owners of Garmin Inc.
One poster (in an other thread) even treated me like a heretic. She tried to make me look like a fool because of my limited personal experience with navigation systems. (She should take a little time to think about forum etiquette.)
I simply told you than Garmin systems do have limitations in Europe. One of these limitations is that they do not know villages, e.g.
in England:
- Martinhoe (there is the entrance to the scenic drive to the Valley of the Rocks)
- Tarr steps (one of the major attractions in Exmoor Natl. Park) or Tarr or Liscombe (the nearest places to Tarr steps)
- Little Wittenham (there is one of the few picnic tables south of Oxford)
in Spain:
- Port Lligat (there is the house/museum of Salvador Dali)
in Germany:
- Hülshoff (there is the castle where a famous German author, Annette von Droste-Hülshoff, lived)
- Westerwinkel (site of a castle)
In my European-built Ford Galaxy, I have an inbuilt navigation system (which is now more than five years old) which miraculously KNOWS all theses places and avoids some other mistakes that the Garmin does. And once, in Spain, I rented a Tom Tom which KNEW Port Lligat (now I have revealed my relation to Tom Tom).
In fact, I was positively prejudiced towards Garmin. This was the reason why I bought a Garmin. And I found out that the Garmin systems have structural limitations in Europe, because European towns are structurally different from American towns.
I thought it might be helpful to other Fodorites to learn about these limitations.
If I had hurt somebody else's feelings, I am very sorry.
One poster (in an other thread) even treated me like a heretic. She tried to make me look like a fool because of my limited personal experience with navigation systems. (She should take a little time to think about forum etiquette.)
I simply told you than Garmin systems do have limitations in Europe. One of these limitations is that they do not know villages, e.g.
in England:
- Martinhoe (there is the entrance to the scenic drive to the Valley of the Rocks)
- Tarr steps (one of the major attractions in Exmoor Natl. Park) or Tarr or Liscombe (the nearest places to Tarr steps)
- Little Wittenham (there is one of the few picnic tables south of Oxford)
in Spain:
- Port Lligat (there is the house/museum of Salvador Dali)
in Germany:
- Hülshoff (there is the castle where a famous German author, Annette von Droste-Hülshoff, lived)
- Westerwinkel (site of a castle)
In my European-built Ford Galaxy, I have an inbuilt navigation system (which is now more than five years old) which miraculously KNOWS all theses places and avoids some other mistakes that the Garmin does. And once, in Spain, I rented a Tom Tom which KNEW Port Lligat (now I have revealed my relation to Tom Tom).
In fact, I was positively prejudiced towards Garmin. This was the reason why I bought a Garmin. And I found out that the Garmin systems have structural limitations in Europe, because European towns are structurally different from American towns.
I thought it might be helpful to other Fodorites to learn about these limitations.
If I had hurt somebody else's feelings, I am very sorry.
Aug 1st, 2008, 03:56 AM
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Traveller1959:
I have an older model Garmin portable (the one with the "beanbag" for the dash) that worked beautifully for me in Normandy several years ago. I have been giving thought to upgrading to a newer Garmin model. Should I refrain from further use of my existing Garmin unit in Europe or from upgrading in the light of your opening conclusions?
>Conclusion:
- Do not buy a Garmin for navigating in Europe. Better buy a European product.
- If you have a Garmin, do not rely on it but always make sure you have a detailed (1:200,000) map.<
If, on the other hand, these declarative statements were intended only as "limitations", as you now indicate, I'll feel better about proceeding. Gradyghost
I have an older model Garmin portable (the one with the "beanbag" for the dash) that worked beautifully for me in Normandy several years ago. I have been giving thought to upgrading to a newer Garmin model. Should I refrain from further use of my existing Garmin unit in Europe or from upgrading in the light of your opening conclusions?
>Conclusion:
- Do not buy a Garmin for navigating in Europe. Better buy a European product.
- If you have a Garmin, do not rely on it but always make sure you have a detailed (1:200,000) map.<
If, on the other hand, these declarative statements were intended only as "limitations", as you now indicate, I'll feel better about proceeding. Gradyghost
Aug 1st, 2008, 04:08 AM
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Now I will admit to being biased towards TomTom - it's a Dutch company after all, but I believe that, until recently, Garmin and TomTom used the same maps. Now that TomTom have bought out that company Garmin have had to switch suppliers. Maybe that explains why older Garmins work well in Europe and the newer ones have a few more problems with smaller places. In the end a Satnav system is only as good as the maps it uses.
