Wales
Jul 26th, 2009 | 01:33 AM
#21
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,008
Likes: 50
You can make a good plan out of it - but there do need to be cuts.
Two notes first: 1) I assume you are flying in long haul - right? If so, day one should be low key and preferably car-less to get over the jet lag. 2) w/ 4 adults you need to build in more time just for group dynamics/body clock differences. 1 can travel faster than a couple, and 2 can travel faster than 4.
Just kicking around one option:
Arrive at LHR and go into London by public transport.
Day 1 and 2 in London. See just a bit of London.
Day 3 head back out to LHR and collect your hire car, drive to Windsor and visit castle. In the afternoon drive to Stonehenge and then on to Bath for the late afternoon/evening. Sleep in/near Bath.
Day 4 spend about 6 more hours in Bath then drive to Cam. Use Cam as a base to see the Cotswolds, Oxford (though it will be a 90 min to 2 hour drive each way depending on traffic and road works), the Severn Valley, South Wales.
Day 5 Cam
Day 6 still in Cam
Day 7 early start drive up to the Peak District. Stay one night (2 would be better). That afternoon and the next morning visit Chatsworth, Lyme Park or ??
Day 8 By mid afternoon leave for Kendal/the Lake District
Day 9 Kendal area / Hill Top Farm
Day 10 drive to Durham
Day 11 Durham
Day 12 North Yorkshire (for York, Thirsk, Whitby, Robin Hood's Bay, Castle Howard, Fountains Abbey, etc)
Day 12 North Yorkshire
Day 13 North Yorkshire
Day 14 (I assume your flight is in the evening since you had planned on doing London and the H-o-H-o before going to LHR) Early start, drive to LHR. If your flight is before about 3 or 4 PM though, I'd come down to London the evening before
That is just one possible plan - note - No North Wales/Chester and no Scotland.
Another option would be upon arrival at LHR, Pick up the car and drive to Windsor (no farther). See the castle and spend the night. Next morning, drive to Bath and stay all day before leaving for Cam in the early evening. It would work something like this:
Day 1 Windsor
Day 2 Bath and then on to Cam
Day 3 Cam
Day 4 Cam
Day 5 Peak District
Day 6 Lakes
Day 7 Lakes
Day 8 Durham
Day 9 Durham
Day 10 Yorkshire
Day 11 Yorkshire
Day 12 bit of York in the AM. drive from York to either Stansted or LHR and drop the car there. Travel into London.
Day 13 London
Day 14 London and fly home
If Wales and/or Edinburgh are important - then you have to cut other places -- and probably fly or take the train back from Edinburgh to London. W/ your musts of Windsor/Cam/Durham, you simply don't have time for a complete loop drive of England/Scotland.
Two notes first: 1) I assume you are flying in long haul - right? If so, day one should be low key and preferably car-less to get over the jet lag. 2) w/ 4 adults you need to build in more time just for group dynamics/body clock differences. 1 can travel faster than a couple, and 2 can travel faster than 4.
Just kicking around one option:
Arrive at LHR and go into London by public transport.
Day 1 and 2 in London. See just a bit of London.
Day 3 head back out to LHR and collect your hire car, drive to Windsor and visit castle. In the afternoon drive to Stonehenge and then on to Bath for the late afternoon/evening. Sleep in/near Bath.
Day 4 spend about 6 more hours in Bath then drive to Cam. Use Cam as a base to see the Cotswolds, Oxford (though it will be a 90 min to 2 hour drive each way depending on traffic and road works), the Severn Valley, South Wales.
Day 5 Cam
Day 6 still in Cam
Day 7 early start drive up to the Peak District. Stay one night (2 would be better). That afternoon and the next morning visit Chatsworth, Lyme Park or ??
Day 8 By mid afternoon leave for Kendal/the Lake District
Day 9 Kendal area / Hill Top Farm
Day 10 drive to Durham
Day 11 Durham
Day 12 North Yorkshire (for York, Thirsk, Whitby, Robin Hood's Bay, Castle Howard, Fountains Abbey, etc)
Day 12 North Yorkshire
Day 13 North Yorkshire
Day 14 (I assume your flight is in the evening since you had planned on doing London and the H-o-H-o before going to LHR) Early start, drive to LHR. If your flight is before about 3 or 4 PM though, I'd come down to London the evening before
That is just one possible plan - note - No North Wales/Chester and no Scotland.
Another option would be upon arrival at LHR, Pick up the car and drive to Windsor (no farther). See the castle and spend the night. Next morning, drive to Bath and stay all day before leaving for Cam in the early evening. It would work something like this:
Day 1 Windsor
Day 2 Bath and then on to Cam
Day 3 Cam
Day 4 Cam
Day 5 Peak District
Day 6 Lakes
Day 7 Lakes
Day 8 Durham
Day 9 Durham
Day 10 Yorkshire
Day 11 Yorkshire
Day 12 bit of York in the AM. drive from York to either Stansted or LHR and drop the car there. Travel into London.
Day 13 London
Day 14 London and fly home
If Wales and/or Edinburgh are important - then you have to cut other places -- and probably fly or take the train back from Edinburgh to London. W/ your musts of Windsor/Cam/Durham, you simply don't have time for a complete loop drive of England/Scotland.
Jul 26th, 2009 | 04:36 AM
#22
Original Poster
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
I'm impressed janisj.....spitting me out not one but 2 itineraries while I had a dinner party with some friends. Thanks for your ideas....will consider them and discuss with my brother and SIL.
May I ask you a question? Do you think my original itinerary is going to be impossible to do....or just too rushed to enjoy? We plan to eat lunch on the run as we will have good breakfasts at our B&B's. Dinner will be after dark and we will check in after dinner to fall into bed.
May I ask you a question? Do you think my original itinerary is going to be impossible to do....or just too rushed to enjoy? We plan to eat lunch on the run as we will have good breakfasts at our B&B's. Dinner will be after dark and we will check in after dinner to fall into bed.
Jul 26th, 2009 | 07:02 AM
#23
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,008
Likes: 50
"<i> . . . spitting me out not one but 2 itineraries while I had a dinner party with some friends.</i>"
I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep - I posted that at 02:30 AM my time - you were having dinner and I was fighting insomnia
My suggestions are still too rushed to be called leisurely, but they're definitely doable.
If it was me (and Cam and Durham were "musts") I'd just do London, Cam, Durham and Yorkshire, or London, Cam, Durham and the Lakes/Peak District. About 4 or 5 full days in London, 3 in Cam, 2 in Durham and 4 in Yorkshire or 4 in the NW for the lakes/peaks.
(Actually - what I'd REALLY do is fly into Manchester or Newcastle, visit Durham, York, then down to Cam, into London and fly home for LHR.)
"<i> Do you think my original itinerary is going to be impossible to do....or just too rushed to enjoy?</i>"
No, not totally 100% impossible but nearly so. It is sort of hard to understand until you are there "on the ground" how long some things take.
For instance - it is hard (not impossible but not super easy) to get an early start out of a B&B. They sometimes have set breakfast hours - plus if there are other guests, they have to serve them instead of popping up to settle your bill. Count on not driving away until after 9 AM most mornings and 10 AM would not be that unusual.
Getting a quick bit along the road does take time - just finding places to eat that all 4 of you agree on.
Most sites have limited opening hours - typically around 10 AM to 5 PM - so you can't spend all day getting there because it will be closing or closed by the time you arrive.
Driving in/out of British cities take a lot of time. Using park-and-rides is good - but eats up time too.
Just on and on -- everything takes time.
I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep - I posted that at 02:30 AM my time - you were having dinner and I was fighting insomnia
My suggestions are still too rushed to be called leisurely, but they're definitely doable.
If it was me (and Cam and Durham were "musts") I'd just do London, Cam, Durham and Yorkshire, or London, Cam, Durham and the Lakes/Peak District. About 4 or 5 full days in London, 3 in Cam, 2 in Durham and 4 in Yorkshire or 4 in the NW for the lakes/peaks.
(Actually - what I'd REALLY do is fly into Manchester or Newcastle, visit Durham, York, then down to Cam, into London and fly home for LHR.)
"<i> Do you think my original itinerary is going to be impossible to do....or just too rushed to enjoy?</i>"
No, not totally 100% impossible but nearly so. It is sort of hard to understand until you are there "on the ground" how long some things take.
For instance - it is hard (not impossible but not super easy) to get an early start out of a B&B. They sometimes have set breakfast hours - plus if there are other guests, they have to serve them instead of popping up to settle your bill. Count on not driving away until after 9 AM most mornings and 10 AM would not be that unusual.
Getting a quick bit along the road does take time - just finding places to eat that all 4 of you agree on.
Most sites have limited opening hours - typically around 10 AM to 5 PM - so you can't spend all day getting there because it will be closing or closed by the time you arrive.
Driving in/out of British cities take a lot of time. Using park-and-rides is good - but eats up time too.
Just on and on -- everything takes time.
Jul 26th, 2009 | 08:16 AM
#25
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
Likes: 5
hi lifetrip,
ditto what janisj says - not impossible just very very unpleasant.
i still think that even janisj's cut-down itineraries are too much for comfort, unless you want to spend unreasonably long periods of time in the car.
as Cam and Durham are essential, here's my idea [with apologies to janisj for nicking some of her ideas]:
Day 1 -3, London.
Day 3 - pick up car, drive to Bath via Stonehenge.
Day 4 -tour Bath, then drive to Cam. use it as base to tour area.
Day 7 - return car to convenient train station [Oxford?] train to Durham. spend ?3 nights.
Day 10 - pick up car, tour Yorkshire.
Day 12 - drive to York, return car, explore York, stay night.
Day 13 -train to Heathrow
Day 14 - go home.
it's up to you how you distribute the nights of course. this plan gives you a good mix of town and countryside, and lets the train take the strain for the long distances.
Repeat after me -
I DO NOT NEED TO SEE THE WHOLE OF BRITAIN IN ONE TRIP.
regards, ann
ditto what janisj says - not impossible just very very unpleasant.
i still think that even janisj's cut-down itineraries are too much for comfort, unless you want to spend unreasonably long periods of time in the car.
as Cam and Durham are essential, here's my idea [with apologies to janisj for nicking some of her ideas]:
Day 1 -3, London.
Day 3 - pick up car, drive to Bath via Stonehenge.
Day 4 -tour Bath, then drive to Cam. use it as base to tour area.
Day 7 - return car to convenient train station [Oxford?] train to Durham. spend ?3 nights.
Day 10 - pick up car, tour Yorkshire.
Day 12 - drive to York, return car, explore York, stay night.
Day 13 -train to Heathrow
Day 14 - go home.
it's up to you how you distribute the nights of course. this plan gives you a good mix of town and countryside, and lets the train take the strain for the long distances.
Repeat after me -
I DO NOT NEED TO SEE THE WHOLE OF BRITAIN IN ONE TRIP.
regards, ann
Jul 26th, 2009 | 09:07 AM
#26
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,087
Likes: 0
I've not read all the above threads thoroughly, but janis and ann really have the most sensible options for you.
From Cam (not far from where I live) you can easily do daytrips to...
Bath (less than an hour's drive, and do use the P&R on the top of Lansdown hill)
Oxford - as janis said a 2 hour drive, but a very scenic one via Tetbury, Cirencester, Bibury and Burford. You also pass very close to Minster Lovell. Again use the P&R at Oxford unless you want to pay a lot for parking in the centre.
South Wales - head north from Cam via Gloucester and cross the Severn there. Then you can head off into Wales and spend the day exploring before driving south to cross the Severn over one of the two crossings and back up to Cam - just a few miles on the M5. You could explore the wonderful Wye valley and Tintern Abbey before heading on to Cardiff, Chepstow or any of the other places suggested. There is no toll returning from Wales to England, and no toll when entering Wales from Gloucester - it is now 5.60 GBP on the Severn Bridge and Crossing which is a ridiculous amount. (I remember the old Aust Ferry...)
I can't really advise about further north, but I went to Chatsworth last year, in a day (only because the kids were at Alton Towers) and I drove for 7 hours in total. It is a surprisingly long drive from the Cam area.
From Cam (not far from where I live) you can easily do daytrips to...
Bath (less than an hour's drive, and do use the P&R on the top of Lansdown hill)
Oxford - as janis said a 2 hour drive, but a very scenic one via Tetbury, Cirencester, Bibury and Burford. You also pass very close to Minster Lovell. Again use the P&R at Oxford unless you want to pay a lot for parking in the centre.
South Wales - head north from Cam via Gloucester and cross the Severn there. Then you can head off into Wales and spend the day exploring before driving south to cross the Severn over one of the two crossings and back up to Cam - just a few miles on the M5. You could explore the wonderful Wye valley and Tintern Abbey before heading on to Cardiff, Chepstow or any of the other places suggested. There is no toll returning from Wales to England, and no toll when entering Wales from Gloucester - it is now 5.60 GBP on the Severn Bridge and Crossing which is a ridiculous amount. (I remember the old Aust Ferry...)
I can't really advise about further north, but I went to Chatsworth last year, in a day (only because the kids were at Alton Towers) and I drove for 7 hours in total. It is a surprisingly long drive from the Cam area.
Jul 26th, 2009 | 11:08 AM
#27
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
Likes: 5
hi lifetrip,
not being sure about where Cam is, I suggested going to Bath first. if it's so close to Bath, I would go straight to Cam, and add any nights saved to touring Yorkshire.
julia is right about the beauty of the Wye valley [and so few tourists] and the area around Tetbury is one of my favourite bits of the Cotswolds.
LESS IS MORE
not being sure about where Cam is, I suggested going to Bath first. if it's so close to Bath, I would go straight to Cam, and add any nights saved to touring Yorkshire.
julia is right about the beauty of the Wye valley [and so few tourists] and the area around Tetbury is one of my favourite bits of the Cotswolds.
LESS IS MORE
Jul 26th, 2009 | 12:16 PM
#28
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 11,527
Likes: 0
We spent 12 days in England and Wales two years ago, and I think the itineraries janisj, annhig, and julia_t have given you are much more reasonable than your original plan. If you click on my name, you can read my trip report to get an idea of how we spent our time.
Things look close together, but it's easy to underestimate driving distances and times.
Try plugging your original itinerary into the route planner at
http://www.theaa.com/travel/index.jsp
and you'll see what I mean.
Lee Ann
Things look close together, but it's easy to underestimate driving distances and times.
Try plugging your original itinerary into the route planner at
http://www.theaa.com/travel/index.jsp
and you'll see what I mean.
Lee Ann
Jul 27th, 2009 | 05:16 AM
#29
Original Poster
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
I'm just coming down after our 17 year old's dinner party for 24 friends (to surprise her best friend for HER 17th bithday). Thanks for all this input....now I'm back at work it'll take me a while to digest it all. Have a nice day!
Jul 28th, 2009 | 10:03 AM
#30
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,087
Likes: 0
I saw on another thread you mentioned Stroud, and were told it was a dismal dump.
Well, back in its heyday in the late 19th/early 20th century it had a lot going for it, but yes, the planners didn't do it any favours and now it is nothing particularly worth making an effort to visit. We don't get many tourists!
BUT... there are some lovely buildings in the old part of town, a wonderful award-winning Farmers Market on Saturdays, and it is nestled at the head of the Five Valleys amid some of the most spectacular scenery you could wish for.
I grew up in this area, and now work in Stroud, and really it's not that bad a place! Don't rule it out if you have ancestry from here.
Come and see me in Oxfam on King Street if you decide to visit Stroud after all!
Well, back in its heyday in the late 19th/early 20th century it had a lot going for it, but yes, the planners didn't do it any favours and now it is nothing particularly worth making an effort to visit. We don't get many tourists!
BUT... there are some lovely buildings in the old part of town, a wonderful award-winning Farmers Market on Saturdays, and it is nestled at the head of the Five Valleys amid some of the most spectacular scenery you could wish for.
I grew up in this area, and now work in Stroud, and really it's not that bad a place! Don't rule it out if you have ancestry from here.
Come and see me in Oxfam on King Street if you decide to visit Stroud after all!
