Visitors to UK to be restricted to 3 months?
Jul 5th, 2009 | 08:50 AM
#21
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Hi ozbecky,
I think the easiest way for your daughter to stay in Europe without getting a visa is to go to the UK or Ireland after her 90 days is up. What I mean is:
- spend 3 months in Schengen countries
- then go to the UK or Ireland, and spend 3 months there
- then after that, she can either go back to Schengen or just return home to Australia
This way she doesn't need to apply for any visa.
However, please remember that she cannot work or study in any of the countries, Schengen or not.
It will be too complicated and difficult for her to apply for a visa, even if it's an extended tourist visa. And normally there is a long waiting period for Schengen visas, assuming that all required documents are submitted correctly and on time.
I've heard many people say that you could stay beyond the 90 day period illegally. But I wouldn't take this chance, since I've noticed the border patrols paying more attention to this issue lately. I've had my passport checked on the train between Germany and Switzerland, between the Czech Republic and Germany, between France and Belgium, as well as Czech Republic to Poland. And these are all Schengen countries.
Therefore, it is not true that you don't have to show your passport when going through the borders of Schengen countries. I guess some people don't know this (even EU nationals), because I've recently had an acquaintance told me that he didn't know he had to show his passport going from Germany to France (he's a German national). It is quite naive for him to think that there's no passport check. Some people don't realize that Europe is still very distinct from one country to another. The idea of "One Europe" still does not exist. Local laws contradict with EU laws. Schengen laws contradict with national laws. It's very complicated and as I've said before, a huge bureaucratic nightmare.
That being said...here's a very useful visual representation to help us
understand who is in the Schengen agreement and who is in the E.U.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ean_Bodies.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sc...eement_map.svg
I think the easiest way for your daughter to stay in Europe without getting a visa is to go to the UK or Ireland after her 90 days is up. What I mean is:
- spend 3 months in Schengen countries
- then go to the UK or Ireland, and spend 3 months there
- then after that, she can either go back to Schengen or just return home to Australia
This way she doesn't need to apply for any visa.
However, please remember that she cannot work or study in any of the countries, Schengen or not.
It will be too complicated and difficult for her to apply for a visa, even if it's an extended tourist visa. And normally there is a long waiting period for Schengen visas, assuming that all required documents are submitted correctly and on time.
I've heard many people say that you could stay beyond the 90 day period illegally. But I wouldn't take this chance, since I've noticed the border patrols paying more attention to this issue lately. I've had my passport checked on the train between Germany and Switzerland, between the Czech Republic and Germany, between France and Belgium, as well as Czech Republic to Poland. And these are all Schengen countries.
Therefore, it is not true that you don't have to show your passport when going through the borders of Schengen countries. I guess some people don't know this (even EU nationals), because I've recently had an acquaintance told me that he didn't know he had to show his passport going from Germany to France (he's a German national). It is quite naive for him to think that there's no passport check. Some people don't realize that Europe is still very distinct from one country to another. The idea of "One Europe" still does not exist. Local laws contradict with EU laws. Schengen laws contradict with national laws. It's very complicated and as I've said before, a huge bureaucratic nightmare.
That being said...here's a very useful visual representation to help us
understand who is in the Schengen agreement and who is in the E.U.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ean_Bodies.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sc...eement_map.svg
Jul 5th, 2009 | 11:00 AM
#22
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,886
Likes: 0
janissj -
Not suggesting that the Australian authorities can issue her a visa for a Schengen country - obviously they can't.
But, they can tell her what the specific rules are for her situation.
Obviously she could also get this info from the local authorities - but then she will have confessed that she is planning on overstaying her visa - probably not a very good idea.
If she prefers she can go online to the appropriate government department of the country she's in - but that information might not be perfectly clear. Hence the suggestion to ask her own embassy (who I'm fairly sure will tell her just to be sure she goes home within the 90 day limit).
Not suggesting that the Australian authorities can issue her a visa for a Schengen country - obviously they can't.
But, they can tell her what the specific rules are for her situation.
Obviously she could also get this info from the local authorities - but then she will have confessed that she is planning on overstaying her visa - probably not a very good idea.
If she prefers she can go online to the appropriate government department of the country she's in - but that information might not be perfectly clear. Hence the suggestion to ask her own embassy (who I'm fairly sure will tell her just to be sure she goes home within the 90 day limit).
Jul 5th, 2009 | 04:37 PM
#23
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,908
Likes: 0
nancicita
" I've heard many people say that you could stay beyond the 90 day period illegally. But I wouldn't take this chance, since I've noticed the border patrols paying more attention to this issue lately. I've had my passport checked on the train between Germany and Switzerland, between the Czech Republic and Germany, between France and Belgium, as well as Czech Republic to Poland. And these are all Schengen countries.
Therefore, it is not true that you don't have to show your passport when going through the borders of Schengen countries. I guess some people don't know this (even EU nationals), because I've recently had an acquaintance told me that he didn't know he had to show his passport going from Germany to France (he's a German national). It is quite naive for him to think that there's no passport check. "
It has all been a very variable hit and miss approach over the years as initially the Schengen agreement expanded and then has become applied to the EU.
I've read tales of quite a few people from Bootsnall - US travel site and yep many Americans would travel to Europe oblivious of the 90 day rule and some would even apply for a Schengen Visa whereas others stayed well over 90 days even on multiple occasions.
But perhaps because of people smuggling etc., the various countries are becoming more stringent for in some EU countries there have been ID cards residents are issued with that they would use to cross borders and of borders I can recall over ten years ago that some borders were not even manned at night.
On trains, passports or IDs I imagine could be asked for in checking tickets, especially if using something like a Eurail Pass with non EU people.
But generally speaking, the EU is shooting itself in the foot on tourism/travel re the 90 day rule because over the years there would have been heaps of younger backpackers and retirees wanting to spend far more than 90 days for all of Europe.
" I've heard many people say that you could stay beyond the 90 day period illegally. But I wouldn't take this chance, since I've noticed the border patrols paying more attention to this issue lately. I've had my passport checked on the train between Germany and Switzerland, between the Czech Republic and Germany, between France and Belgium, as well as Czech Republic to Poland. And these are all Schengen countries.
Therefore, it is not true that you don't have to show your passport when going through the borders of Schengen countries. I guess some people don't know this (even EU nationals), because I've recently had an acquaintance told me that he didn't know he had to show his passport going from Germany to France (he's a German national). It is quite naive for him to think that there's no passport check. "
It has all been a very variable hit and miss approach over the years as initially the Schengen agreement expanded and then has become applied to the EU.
I've read tales of quite a few people from Bootsnall - US travel site and yep many Americans would travel to Europe oblivious of the 90 day rule and some would even apply for a Schengen Visa whereas others stayed well over 90 days even on multiple occasions.
But perhaps because of people smuggling etc., the various countries are becoming more stringent for in some EU countries there have been ID cards residents are issued with that they would use to cross borders and of borders I can recall over ten years ago that some borders were not even manned at night.
On trains, passports or IDs I imagine could be asked for in checking tickets, especially if using something like a Eurail Pass with non EU people.
But generally speaking, the EU is shooting itself in the foot on tourism/travel re the 90 day rule because over the years there would have been heaps of younger backpackers and retirees wanting to spend far more than 90 days for all of Europe.
Jul 6th, 2009 | 04:13 PM
#24
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
"They want the carriers to collect the same kind of information the Americans (the most paranoid country in the world when it comes to travel of course thans to GWB, Cheney and their ilk)"..."What's next? Fingerprinting all visitors...nah you don't do such things to people from countries who are supposedly your friends (or do you?)."
Has nothing to do with GWB, Cheney etc. It is the paranoia and the hysteria over profiling and racism that has gotten us where we are today. It would be common sense only to fingerprint and profile those that come from a group that commits about 99% of all terrorist acts on planes but if we did that, we'd hear screams of "racism" and lawsuits so unfortunately, little old Chinese ladies are treated the same as everyone else.
Has nothing to do with GWB, Cheney etc. It is the paranoia and the hysteria over profiling and racism that has gotten us where we are today. It would be common sense only to fingerprint and profile those that come from a group that commits about 99% of all terrorist acts on planes but if we did that, we'd hear screams of "racism" and lawsuits so unfortunately, little old Chinese ladies are treated the same as everyone else.
Jul 6th, 2009 | 04:56 PM
#25
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,247
Likes: 0
Re. passport checks within the Schengen area:
It is a common misconception that you can leave your ID card or passport at home when you travel within the Schengen area. Regular, mandatory immigration procedures are done at your first port of entry. But within the Schengen area, regular border controls have been replaced by spot controls, not only at the borders but also on major train routes or major highways and motorways. All that may happen at or near the former border, but can, in fact, happen anywhere. And while regular immigration procedures involve everyone wanting to get in, spot controls can be totally random. So in a train, you may see police checking IDs of some people, and not of other people.
The main advantage is in air and road travel where you do not stand in a line of people or cars for passport control.
It is a common misconception that you can leave your ID card or passport at home when you travel within the Schengen area. Regular, mandatory immigration procedures are done at your first port of entry. But within the Schengen area, regular border controls have been replaced by spot controls, not only at the borders but also on major train routes or major highways and motorways. All that may happen at or near the former border, but can, in fact, happen anywhere. And while regular immigration procedures involve everyone wanting to get in, spot controls can be totally random. So in a train, you may see police checking IDs of some people, and not of other people.
The main advantage is in air and road travel where you do not stand in a line of people or cars for passport control.
Jul 10th, 2009 | 04:43 PM
#26
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Thanks to everyone. I now know a lot more than I did just a week ago. After speaking with my daughter, she wishes she had been more clear on the 90 restrictions before she left UK and Ireland for her first entry into SA Countries.
She would have planned things differently on the time frame based on a better understanding of how the 90 days are consecutive not based on re-entry or each country.
I agree from a travel perspective it really does put a limit on visitors wishing to stay longer, but perhaps as we are better informed, if we wish to stay longer we can apply for the appropriate extended visa assuming there is one.
Any way thanks again for the discussion. Happy Travelling to All regards OZBecky
She would have planned things differently on the time frame based on a better understanding of how the 90 days are consecutive not based on re-entry or each country.
I agree from a travel perspective it really does put a limit on visitors wishing to stay longer, but perhaps as we are better informed, if we wish to stay longer we can apply for the appropriate extended visa assuming there is one.
Any way thanks again for the discussion. Happy Travelling to All regards OZBecky
Jul 10th, 2009 | 05:06 PM
#27
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,886
Likes: 0
Typically longer visas are not tourist visas. they are either student visas (as in registered in an approved course), retirement visas (for senior citizens with very substantial financial resources) or working visas (for people whose companies are transferring then there). there are also a variety of family visas (for people who qualify).
But tourist visas are usually limited - since after a certain amount of time you're really no longer a tourist - but a temporary resident - which they do NOT want.
But tourist visas are usually limited - since after a certain amount of time you're really no longer a tourist - but a temporary resident - which they do NOT want.
