My husband and I will be travelling from Venice to Berlin in October and had planned to take the train for the views of the Alps along the way.

Here is what I had in mind:
(all prices per person in Australian$ )

Venice to Munich: 11am-6:30pm (so we can have views of the Alps before it gets dark)

AUD$153 first class
AUD$100 second class or
AUD$26 Italy-Germany smartprice on a day train incl. reservation fee (but I'm not sure of the conditions because this seems too good to be true, or maybe I misunderstood )

Munich to Berlin: 11pm-7am

sparnight prices
dble. sleeper with shower AUD$161
dble. sleeper without shower AUD$125
2 berth couchette AUD$89

or we could fly Venice to Berlin for AUD$95 incl. tax and fees with Hapag Lloyd Express

If anyone has taken this trip, are the views worth the extra money and whole day of travel, or can you see the scenery from the plane anyway?

Thankyou in advance

confused

I don't know about your particular flight, but when we flew from Newark to Milan a few years ago, we had fantastic views of the Alps.

The train goes through the Brenner Pass, which is pretty much the dividing line between the Alps and Dolomites.

There's no way of knowing how good the views from the plane will be, since it's perfectly possible you'll be flying over the clouds. Indeed in October, it's probably more likely than not. That cuts both ways, though: driving or training through autumn mist or rain ican be as unexciting in the Alps (or Dolomites) as in Moonie Ponds and offers no better views.

At best, on this mostly south-north flight, you'll get a less good view than on flights that run at a diagonal through the mountains. And even on the very best bright crisp dsay, the views don't compare with flights round the Himalayas. Remember you're flying about as high (and therefore a lot further from the peaks) as you do on the mountainous bit of the flights between Europe and Oz.

Personally I'd take the train if I'd not travelled much in Europe. The early bit up the Trent valley might be dull if you're a jaded traveller, but you see some jolly nice bits of Italy you wouldn't see otherwise from a different perspective - which is the whole point of travelling isn't it? You know for certain what the flight's going to be like: at the very worst on the train, even if it's raining, you get that lovely noise of level crossing bells and the sense of the footsteps of all the conquering and defeated armies who've trudged through the Brenner before you. And even on a train - maybe it's just me romanticising - the mountain bit feels a lot crisper.

And even if the overnight train is uneventful, there's always something Le Carre-esque about night trains to Berlin. Though somehow the beautiful spy's always missed the trains I've been on

The Brenner Pass is one of, if not the lowest in altitude through the mountains. However, as someone above mentioned, the views from the train up through Trento and Bolzano are very scenic. The ride down the other side and through Austria is somewhat more forested. You won't be seeing any of the very highest peaks but the ride is relaxing and enjoyable. It is, IMO, worth the extra time (train vs. plane) and you'll definitely get better, closer up views than you would from a plane.

In terms of seat reservations (not sleeping CAR reservaytions) I have taken this trip numerous times and at all times of the year and have yet to see the train full.

However, unless you take the one (I think) daily direct service from Venice you'll almost inevitably have to change in Verona (to a train which originated in Rome). If you are first on the train then usually finding an unreserved seat is not a problem. Joining a train in mid-journey can make seat finding a little more problematic depending on the time of day/year.

Enjoy this trip..why fly OVER it when you can travel THROUGH it????

Hi Kaz,

We took the reverse train trip and enjoyed it very much.

The Brenner Pass is where Mussolini met Hitler to forge the Pact of Steel.

As a general rule, the inter city trains take the lowest route possible. Even a 3% grade is very taxing on a train; engine efficiency drops something fierce with each degree in the angle of ascent. On the descent side, a 4% grade is very hazardous. (Which is why the mountain trains use cogs.)

I have ridden intercity trains in Austria, Germany, and Switzerland and I have not thought the views were all that scenic.

My best views have come from the high mountain passes when I was in a car or riding one of the cog rail trains in Zermatt and the Berner Oberland. Those are not intercity trains, however.

WOW! Thankyou all for your advice.

I think we'll take the train, and if nothing else,we'll get to relax a bit and take in all that we've done and seen in the last 2 weeks, and plan for what's to come.

thanks again

kaz