Venice and Rome or Tuscany and Rome?
Jan 29th, 2009 | 09:29 PM
#21
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,453
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>>Feel free to challenge my personal experience (if you dare) but no matter what anybody says, I know the difference between a bridge you cannot cross and a vaporetto you cannot board because the crowds are too numerous.<<
How is a statement about the proportion of visitors to residents refuted by a statement about crowds?
Oh wait, I do know. It's called sophistry. If Rick Steves can be quoted, why not Wikipedia?
>>Sophistry means making heavy use of sophisms.
A sophism … might be crafted to seem logical while actually being wrong… The goal of a sophism is often to make the audience believe the writer or speaker to be smarter than he or she actually is…<<
How is a statement about the proportion of visitors to residents refuted by a statement about crowds?
Oh wait, I do know. It's called sophistry. If Rick Steves can be quoted, why not Wikipedia?
>>Sophistry means making heavy use of sophisms.
A sophism … might be crafted to seem logical while actually being wrong… The goal of a sophism is often to make the audience believe the writer or speaker to be smarter than he or she actually is…<<
Jan 30th, 2009 | 05:00 AM
#22
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,098
Likes: 0
My personal preference in order:
1. Venice--it is a unique world treasure. There is no other place like it on earth. Yes, it has a high ratio of visitors to residents. But it has always had a high ratio of visitors to residents, even in its heyday. The visitors used to be merchants, sailors, scammers, vagrants, and tourists. Now there's a lot fewer vagrants, merchants and sailors and more scammers and tourists. 60,000 residents aren't a lot, but it never was huge in population anyway--probably around 150,000 at it's height.
2. Rome--a bustling world capital that has so many layers of art, architecture, and history concentrated in a relatively small area. You could spend weeks and not soak it all in.
3. Florence--the center is very pretty. If you are a Renaissance groupie it's great. If not, ... .
1. Venice--it is a unique world treasure. There is no other place like it on earth. Yes, it has a high ratio of visitors to residents. But it has always had a high ratio of visitors to residents, even in its heyday. The visitors used to be merchants, sailors, scammers, vagrants, and tourists. Now there's a lot fewer vagrants, merchants and sailors and more scammers and tourists. 60,000 residents aren't a lot, but it never was huge in population anyway--probably around 150,000 at it's height.
2. Rome--a bustling world capital that has so many layers of art, architecture, and history concentrated in a relatively small area. You could spend weeks and not soak it all in.
3. Florence--the center is very pretty. If you are a Renaissance groupie it's great. If not, ... .
Jan 30th, 2009 | 05:39 AM
#23
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,167
Likes: 1
"Variety. there's something for everyone, except perhaps football"
And even that is not neccessarily correct. One of my favourite memories from Venice was sitting by the water on the Fondamente Nove while several vaporetti passed. Each was full to bursting of Venezia fans wearing the black, green and orange of their club, and the singing was excellent.
Although I loved Venice, and agree with it's uniqueness, I am going to side with Zeppole on this one.
Florence is a wonderful city, there is a great deal to see and it offers easy access to some great day trips (Lucca, Siena, San Gimignano, Arezzo). It is not "better" than Venice, but it is no less unique.
Go to any one, at a push two of the places - do not try all three, it will kill the experience.
And even that is not neccessarily correct. One of my favourite memories from Venice was sitting by the water on the Fondamente Nove while several vaporetti passed. Each was full to bursting of Venezia fans wearing the black, green and orange of their club, and the singing was excellent.
Although I loved Venice, and agree with it's uniqueness, I am going to side with Zeppole on this one.
Florence is a wonderful city, there is a great deal to see and it offers easy access to some great day trips (Lucca, Siena, San Gimignano, Arezzo). It is not "better" than Venice, but it is no less unique.
Go to any one, at a push two of the places - do not try all three, it will kill the experience.
Jan 30th, 2009 | 06:59 AM
#24
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Say what, Zerlina?
<i><font color=blue>"The goal of a sophism is often to make the audience believe the writer or speaker to be smarter than he or she actually is"</font></i>
I believe it was you who tried to impress the audience with your "polemic" carving skills when a polemic didn't exist, dear. And I'm still not sure any other poster on this thread actually resides in Manhattan.
How can any intelligent person suggest there is an ounce of controversy or argument in my quote, <i><font color=blue>"May is a great month to visit all three places. You can't go wrong no matter what you decide."</font></i> ?
I <b>know</b> I'm smart. And I have no need to "make" anyone "believe" anything. I'm not a control freak. I speak from my perspective only and I don't tell people what to do. I tell them what I would do or what I have done.
If you think you're smarter and know more, Zerlina, knock yourself out and show us. I'm always open to learning something new about places very near and dear to me.
Btw, the goal of sophism is to deceive. There's nothing deceptive about my travel experience and/or my love for time spent in certain places. My age, now that's another matter. It's deception all the way!
<i><font color=blue>"If Rick Steves can be quoted, why not Wikipedia?"</font></i>
Well, Zerlina, I guess that says it all. I have nothing further.
<i><font color=blue>"Yes, it (Venice) has a high ratio of visitors to residents. But it has always had a high ratio of visitors to residents, even in its heyday."</font></i>
Thank you, Rufus. It's such a pleasure to see familiar, handsome faces on this board. And smart, too.
<i><font color=blue>"The goal of a sophism is often to make the audience believe the writer or speaker to be smarter than he or she actually is"</font></i>
I believe it was you who tried to impress the audience with your "polemic" carving skills when a polemic didn't exist, dear. And I'm still not sure any other poster on this thread actually resides in Manhattan.
How can any intelligent person suggest there is an ounce of controversy or argument in my quote, <i><font color=blue>"May is a great month to visit all three places. You can't go wrong no matter what you decide."</font></i> ?
I <b>know</b> I'm smart. And I have no need to "make" anyone "believe" anything. I'm not a control freak. I speak from my perspective only and I don't tell people what to do. I tell them what I would do or what I have done.
If you think you're smarter and know more, Zerlina, knock yourself out and show us. I'm always open to learning something new about places very near and dear to me.
Btw, the goal of sophism is to deceive. There's nothing deceptive about my travel experience and/or my love for time spent in certain places. My age, now that's another matter. It's deception all the way!
<i><font color=blue>"If Rick Steves can be quoted, why not Wikipedia?"</font></i>
Well, Zerlina, I guess that says it all. I have nothing further.
<i><font color=blue>"Yes, it (Venice) has a high ratio of visitors to residents. But it has always had a high ratio of visitors to residents, even in its heyday."</font></i>
Thank you, Rufus. It's such a pleasure to see familiar, handsome faces on this board. And smart, too.
Feb 3rd, 2009 | 05:21 AM
#25
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,098
Likes: 0
Florence is certainly not as unique as Venice! And I'm not saying that just because I don't care for the city of Florence in spite of its art and architectural treasures.
Florence certainly has great Renaissance treasures and many people love it, but the city itself is just in no way as unique as Venice with its canals, lack of any motorized vehicles unless on the water (even no bicycles in the historic center), its complicated layering and mingling of European, Mediterranean, and Eastern influences in art, architecture, food, culture.
Florence certainly has great Renaissance treasures and many people love it, but the city itself is just in no way as unique as Venice with its canals, lack of any motorized vehicles unless on the water (even no bicycles in the historic center), its complicated layering and mingling of European, Mediterranean, and Eastern influences in art, architecture, food, culture.
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