Pal: nothing at all wrong with the post and as far as I am concerned no need for you to retract any of it. I can understand your frustration with not having some of the healthcarse services you feel are needed but am sure you also know there are many "forces" which are going to end up, ultimately, shaping any healthcare system we get in the US.

The strongest of those forces is not necessarily citizen-oriented or backed IMO.

You know what they say: "Canadians: unarmed Americans with health care."

Was posting as you were PalQ - didn't want you to think that I was being nice to you just becuase you were nice to me!

As to hbrandt - I think that was a touch uncalled for!

ooh Dukey - you are in for it now

Well, I see you have at least now learned how to write "Ca y est". Just don't put an apostrophe.

>If you aren't employed
Premiums for unemployed are very low (but exist).
If you don't have any money, the state pays but if you earn an income and are self-employed and aren't insured, you won't get anything!
So you better be broke or unemployed than self-enployed and uninsured.

----- in fact hidden in the purchase price.------

------i know exactly how much VAT i pay because it's invariably broken down on all receipts------

So which is it?

At any rate , i was meaning "you" as in you specifically.

typo alert! I mean, I "wasnt " meaning you specifically.

Ingo: no i don't have your e-mail but you may not want it broadcase here. Maybe when i pass thru Dresden i'll buy you a beer (or pop).

MorganB- well OK - now i see it was a valid 'criticism' and a poor choice of words on my part - hidden no but embedded and the average tourist has no idea that such a high VAT is embedded unless they understand the fine print on the receipt - that's why i used, wrongly, the word hidden. Fair enough - now i understand your pointing out my seeming conflicting statements.

What's the origin of the term "value added tax"?

I believe it is becuase a good is in effect taxed incrementally as it is, eg, assembled. For example, the purchaser of planks of wood pays VAT on the wood, he then assembles the wood into a table and chargers VAT on the whole thing. For his returns he claims back the tax that he paid on the planks of wood. So the government gets the tax as value is added - ie the tax from the bloke who sold the planks of wood, and then tax from the guy who sold the table (net of the input credit that he is claiming on the planks of wood) - Note I say I believe - might be wrong

>Alta - when you say that citizens have to pay into a special fund - how does that work. For example, two parent family, one parent works, two kids - who has to pay into the fund?

It all depends on the country. There is no unified "European" system. In Germany, those who work and get paid pay a certain percentage of their income into a "health care fund" which then pays health care for all people living in the same household. Different funds compete for customers via price (set percentage of income) or via added benefits. All of them have a mandatory list of things they have to pay for, no matter what your previous history etc. You HAVE to subscribe to a "fund" of your choice.
In Switzerland there are more or less private insurances where everybody has to pay a certain sum (not percentage of income) for. Again there is a set list of things that have to get paid and some add-ons that the insurances use to compete for customers. For a family with lower incomes this system is more expensive than the German one, for an average income and especially for singles A LOT less expensive.

>You HAVE to subscribe to a "fund" of your choice.
unless you're self emplyed, that is.

we got free emergency medical care in Capri. We offered to pay but they refused.

Wombat 7- It was not my post but I also had the experience of my daughter becoming ill in the UK. The hotel sent us to a nearby clinic where she was promptly seen and treated without appointment. When I requested the bill, I was told that there would be no charge.

I have absolutely no problem paying into another country's tax structure when I am a visitor. It is part of the package.

I should know better as I work for the NHS, but I believe there is no charge for accute or emergency treatment within the UK.

PalQ, I think your point is interesting, and thought provoking. Ibelieve that the only alternative would be to increase business tax to cover the loss of VAT. This would mean the restaurant or hotwl may have to increase their prices to the same level as they are now, so for the tourist there would be little difference.

If I visit a country without VAT, a proportion of my spending presumably finds it's way into the government coffers anyway albeit more indirectly.

Canada offers tax refunds to foreign visitors and has been doing so for years........ http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/rc...sitortaxrefund

goldwynn - living just north of Canada (Detroit) and a frequent traveler there - Toronto is a world-class city i just love - never realized i could get a tax rebate for my hotel bills.
Thanks - now i wonder about those Cuban cigars i bring back!

Its all good PalQ, I reacted a bit harshly as well Maybe the change from hot to cold here! You should try to rent a car at DFW if you want to see a tourist rip off in action. All the taxes and fees more than double the rental price. There is even a fee built in to pay for the American Airlines Arena. Crazy.

"I'm paying for their liberal welfare systems, medical care, etc".

No you are not. We pay income tax and what in the UK is called national insurance (compulsary and taken directly out of our salaries) to pay for the welfare and medical systems.

VAT just goes into the general coffers same as your sales taxes, so yes, you are not making use of the schools and so on that it helps pay for, but you are using the roads, transport systems, police, water, sewage etc etc etc.