Using ATM's
Aug 29th, 2004, 06:12 PM
#41
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Just got off the phone with Bank of America. They have put in a request to their research department regarding the EXACT fees for my account situation. It seems the right hand at BOA does not know what the left hand is up too.
As some of you know, I can't take no for an answer or let things drop. I have to dig at it for some reason. Must be in the genes. Sometimes, it works out for the best. Refunds I was initially told I was not entitled to have turned out to be exactly what I was due. Services that have been denied me for some reason or another turn out to be services I was entitled to have all along. I just don't like being taken advantage of.
I understand about the 1% conversion fee that Visa/MC charges EVERYONE. The three BOA reps I have spoken with seem to be calling it the foreign exchange rate. I asked them if they were using the term interchangably and they said yes. So that clears up some confusion.
I then asked them about the 2% fee that bankrate.com says BOA is now charging for oversees debit card purchases. The individual I spoke with tonight on the phone and his supervisor were not aware of this exact fee. The only thing they had info on was "the small extra charge included in the..." They did not know what the small extra fee amount was.
But they wanted to know about it like I wanted to know. So they sent a memo to their research department. They said I would receive a letter that explains EXACTLY how much it will cost me to take $100 out of the ATM in Italy via my ck card VS. exactly how much it will cost me to use my ck card at a point of sale for $100. I asked for the same info for my credit card.
By the way www.bankrate.com has a very easy to understand section on all these issues.
Out of curiosity I did a search on your name Patrick and quite often your posts have a condescendig tone to them.
Is it really necessary to be such a butt head?
As some of you know, I can't take no for an answer or let things drop. I have to dig at it for some reason. Must be in the genes. Sometimes, it works out for the best. Refunds I was initially told I was not entitled to have turned out to be exactly what I was due. Services that have been denied me for some reason or another turn out to be services I was entitled to have all along. I just don't like being taken advantage of.
I understand about the 1% conversion fee that Visa/MC charges EVERYONE. The three BOA reps I have spoken with seem to be calling it the foreign exchange rate. I asked them if they were using the term interchangably and they said yes. So that clears up some confusion.
I then asked them about the 2% fee that bankrate.com says BOA is now charging for oversees debit card purchases. The individual I spoke with tonight on the phone and his supervisor were not aware of this exact fee. The only thing they had info on was "the small extra charge included in the..." They did not know what the small extra fee amount was.
But they wanted to know about it like I wanted to know. So they sent a memo to their research department. They said I would receive a letter that explains EXACTLY how much it will cost me to take $100 out of the ATM in Italy via my ck card VS. exactly how much it will cost me to use my ck card at a point of sale for $100. I asked for the same info for my credit card.
By the way www.bankrate.com has a very easy to understand section on all these issues.
Out of curiosity I did a search on your name Patrick and quite often your posts have a condescendig tone to them.
Is it really necessary to be such a butt head?
Aug 29th, 2004, 06:52 PM
#42
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Often service people in banks or in credit card depts don't even know the answer to what fees they add on to charges made in foreign currency. I remember once I was considering getting an MBNA credit card because I knew they supposedly didn't add the extra 2 pct but when I called them, they were totally clueless and couldn't even answer my question. I have better things to do than deal with credit cards who can't answer simple questions, so I didn't get into extended interactions with them because I thought if they couldn't answer that, I didn't want their card anyway. YOu can't really tell if your card adds the one percent by comparing charges to the official exchange rate on that exact date because it's too small of a difference to detect since the date of conversion may not be the same date as your purchase, and the exchange rate can easily vary one percent within a week or two. A good customer service dept. should be able to tell you the exact date the conversion to your bill was made, however. This just sounds like those people aren't calling that one pct fee a "conversion fee". Nothing really unusual about that, they probably consider it a service charge or something.
Credit Union cards also have that one pct VISA fee added on, that's a VISA charge that can't be escaped. This is the standard statement in the discloser of terms for a credit union VISA card:
<<If you use your card for transactions in a currency other than U.S. dollars, the transactions will be converted to U.S. dollars, using either (i) a government-mandated rate or (ii) a wholesale market rate in effect the day before the transaction processing date, increased by one percent (1%).>> I don't think it's really worth time worrying about this minor charge which you can't avoid and which is not different than minor currency fluctuations.
I do consulting to the Pentagon and know a lot of people who have their credit union cards, it's one of the largest in the country, and this is their credit union's statement on this:
<<Purchases or withdrawals made in foreign countries and foreign cur-rencies will be debited in U. S. dollars. The rate of exchange for any such foreign transaction between the foreign currency and the U.S. dollars is either the foreign government exchange rate set by the country in which the transaction occurred or if such rate is not applicable, the wholesale market rate as established by Visa, Inc. or the ATMnetwork processing the transaction in effect one day prior to the date processed, increased by one percent.>>
Credit Union cards also have that one pct VISA fee added on, that's a VISA charge that can't be escaped. This is the standard statement in the discloser of terms for a credit union VISA card:
<<If you use your card for transactions in a currency other than U.S. dollars, the transactions will be converted to U.S. dollars, using either (i) a government-mandated rate or (ii) a wholesale market rate in effect the day before the transaction processing date, increased by one percent (1%).>> I don't think it's really worth time worrying about this minor charge which you can't avoid and which is not different than minor currency fluctuations.
I do consulting to the Pentagon and know a lot of people who have their credit union cards, it's one of the largest in the country, and this is their credit union's statement on this:
<<Purchases or withdrawals made in foreign countries and foreign cur-rencies will be debited in U. S. dollars. The rate of exchange for any such foreign transaction between the foreign currency and the U.S. dollars is either the foreign government exchange rate set by the country in which the transaction occurred or if such rate is not applicable, the wholesale market rate as established by Visa, Inc. or the ATMnetwork processing the transaction in effect one day prior to the date processed, increased by one percent.>>
Aug 29th, 2004, 06:59 PM
#43
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Thank you Christina for the informative reply.
I do agree that dealing with a company that is not able to answer these questions makes me hesitant to use them.
I had a situation with another financial institution in which I was told by three people on the same day I could do something and when it came time to do it I was told I could not. Lucky for me I had the names of the people I spoke with because I persisted and was allowed to do what I had been promised.
Almost the same thing happend with my dumb cell phone company, but I persisted and was given what I had been promised.
It is getting very tiresome trying to obtain the services promised these days.
I do agree that dealing with a company that is not able to answer these questions makes me hesitant to use them.
I had a situation with another financial institution in which I was told by three people on the same day I could do something and when it came time to do it I was told I could not. Lucky for me I had the names of the people I spoke with because I persisted and was allowed to do what I had been promised.
Almost the same thing happend with my dumb cell phone company, but I persisted and was given what I had been promised.
It is getting very tiresome trying to obtain the services promised these days.
Aug 29th, 2004, 07:18 PM
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I do a lot of posts. I don't intentionally become a butt head until someone boldly makes a flat statement without an ounce of belief that he could possibly be wrong that something is true, even after numerous posts from a number of experts who insist that he is wrong. Then yes, I guess I become a butt head.
You will find if you review all my posts that I am most gracious to newbies who do not know how to use the site or to those who are asking a question, rather than insisting that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Since you insisted that you are not charged a fee, I congratulated you on that achievement. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were indeed right and had discovered a way around the system all the rest of us have been fighting so long. Sorry that makes me a butt head in your opinion. At least I guess it made you listen when all the other statements were falling on deaf ears.
You will find if you review all my posts that I am most gracious to newbies who do not know how to use the site or to those who are asking a question, rather than insisting that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Since you insisted that you are not charged a fee, I congratulated you on that achievement. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were indeed right and had discovered a way around the system all the rest of us have been fighting so long. Sorry that makes me a butt head in your opinion. At least I guess it made you listen when all the other statements were falling on deaf ears.
Aug 30th, 2004, 03:36 AM
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Gee Patrick,
I guess we all can't be perfect after all. In your post of 8/22 at 3:21 pm you state:
"My bank official told me it was silly of me when I changed my card to an ATM only card as there was no way I'd be liable for any charges if it was stolen. I ignored him and did it anyway."
Even I could have told you that was silly. But I suspect you would have done it anyway, after all, you had expert advice.
For clarification, my first post to this thread wasn't until 8/24 at 8:42 am. All I said was:
"That cash abroad site is neat. Just a note, my CREDIT UNION visa does not charge cash advance fees either."
Then Budman posted his idea on why I was not charged a cash advance fee. I then responded on 8/29 at 11:14 am with the reiteration that there was no cash advance fee. I did NOT say I was not charged interest or a conversion fee. I did not say I was not charged a conversion fee on this transaction because I advanced US funds in US money. I knew there was interest though.
In the same post I mentioned I had checked with my regular bank, that would be my non-credit union establishment, and the rep told me the bit about the no conversion fee.
Obviously there was a misunderstanding. At the end of your reply Patrick, the very next post, (8/29 at 3:09 pm,) you make the comment:
"But I'll let you live in your dream world believing that you are the only one in the world that they waive that conversion fee for."
And that is where I become annoyed. Perhaps it would have been nicer and more helpful to everyone if you had said something like: Obviously there has been a misunderstanding, because EVERYONE must pay a conversion fee when using Visa or M/C logo instruments. I would double or triple check with the bank that gave you the information. Perhaps it would help to get it in writing.
If you were having the same concern as I, wouldn't you have found that more helpful? If I had posted a dozen messages on this matter I might be more accepting of the "living in the dream world" statement, but I had only TWO postings on this before you unleashed on me.
And when you indicate it bothers you when people ignore the experts, how much more expert does one need to be than the REPRESENTATIVE of the bank? If they were not clear in their instructions to me that would be good to know.
I'm sure you can be very helpful to people here and I would love to benefit from your knowledge and experience so if it is okay with you I would like to put my feelings about how you spoke to me aside now.
I'm sure the bank rep is to blame in part for the confusion and when I get the letter I will report back for anyone who is interested.
Ciao!
I guess we all can't be perfect after all. In your post of 8/22 at 3:21 pm you state:
"My bank official told me it was silly of me when I changed my card to an ATM only card as there was no way I'd be liable for any charges if it was stolen. I ignored him and did it anyway."
Even I could have told you that was silly. But I suspect you would have done it anyway, after all, you had expert advice.
For clarification, my first post to this thread wasn't until 8/24 at 8:42 am. All I said was:
"That cash abroad site is neat. Just a note, my CREDIT UNION visa does not charge cash advance fees either."
Then Budman posted his idea on why I was not charged a cash advance fee. I then responded on 8/29 at 11:14 am with the reiteration that there was no cash advance fee. I did NOT say I was not charged interest or a conversion fee. I did not say I was not charged a conversion fee on this transaction because I advanced US funds in US money. I knew there was interest though.
In the same post I mentioned I had checked with my regular bank, that would be my non-credit union establishment, and the rep told me the bit about the no conversion fee.
Obviously there was a misunderstanding. At the end of your reply Patrick, the very next post, (8/29 at 3:09 pm,) you make the comment:
"But I'll let you live in your dream world believing that you are the only one in the world that they waive that conversion fee for."
And that is where I become annoyed. Perhaps it would have been nicer and more helpful to everyone if you had said something like: Obviously there has been a misunderstanding, because EVERYONE must pay a conversion fee when using Visa or M/C logo instruments. I would double or triple check with the bank that gave you the information. Perhaps it would help to get it in writing.
If you were having the same concern as I, wouldn't you have found that more helpful? If I had posted a dozen messages on this matter I might be more accepting of the "living in the dream world" statement, but I had only TWO postings on this before you unleashed on me.
And when you indicate it bothers you when people ignore the experts, how much more expert does one need to be than the REPRESENTATIVE of the bank? If they were not clear in their instructions to me that would be good to know.
I'm sure you can be very helpful to people here and I would love to benefit from your knowledge and experience so if it is okay with you I would like to put my feelings about how you spoke to me aside now.
I'm sure the bank rep is to blame in part for the confusion and when I get the letter I will report back for anyone who is interested.
Ciao!
Aug 30th, 2004, 06:14 AM
#48
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PLMN, no hard feelings here.
Yes, I suppose I was a little harsh. I'm sorry for that. I probably should stop even reading these ATM and currency exchange posts as there is SO much confusion about the whole policy.
I think my case with the bank was a little different than yours, though. I did not assume that the bank knew what they were talking about on the ATM/debit thing. My experience has been that most bank workers don't have a clue about how anything really works. So while you assume that bank person DOES know what he's talking about, I assume the bank official DOESN'T know what he's talking about. Oddly enough in your case the official DIDN'T know and my official DID know --just the opposite of what we both thought.
Yes, I suppose I was a little harsh. I'm sorry for that. I probably should stop even reading these ATM and currency exchange posts as there is SO much confusion about the whole policy.
I think my case with the bank was a little different than yours, though. I did not assume that the bank knew what they were talking about on the ATM/debit thing. My experience has been that most bank workers don't have a clue about how anything really works. So while you assume that bank person DOES know what he's talking about, I assume the bank official DOESN'T know what he's talking about. Oddly enough in your case the official DIDN'T know and my official DID know --just the opposite of what we both thought.
Aug 30th, 2004, 12:35 PM
#49
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Apparently, most people don't bother to read and/or save the Cardholder Agreement that comes with the credit card. We could save a lot of trees if the CC companies didn't bother sending them out. Hearsay is the best way to get information.
My statement from AT&T Universal Cash Rewards Card (Mastercard) came today and has a section titled, HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR ACCOUNT?, with instructions on how to get a response within 4 hours.
This thread has been running for 8 days.
My statement from AT&T Universal Cash Rewards Card (Mastercard) came today and has a section titled, HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR ACCOUNT?, with instructions on how to get a response within 4 hours.
This thread has been running for 8 days.
Aug 30th, 2004, 12:54 PM
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PLMN - I have also been struggling to get a straightforward answer to the conversion fee issue from Bank of America. I have sent Customer Service five e-mails asking the same questions that have been asked here. I finally found the disclosure information that came with my checkcard and here is what it says regarding foreign currency purchases(point of sale): The adjustment factor if you use an Advantage, Prima, MRA or Money Manager Account or you are a Private or Premier Banking Client, is currently 1% of the U.S. dollar amount which is retained by Visa. Otherwise the adjustment factor is currently 3% of the U.S. dollar amount, of which we keep 2% and Visa keeps the remainder. For each converted transaction, we post to your account the converted U.S. dollar amount determined by Visa without including our portion. We report our portion on your statement as a single charge for each converted transaction as a "Foreign Currency Conversion Adjustment".
Foreign ATM's currency conversions: If you use your Card to obtain cash in a currency other than U.S. dollars, the amount is converted into a U.S. dollar amount and we deduct this U.S. dollar amount from your account. The conversion rate is determined under the network's operating regulations and may include exchange and other fees. The converstion rate on the processing or settlement date may differ from the rate on the date of the transaction. An adjustment factor, currently 1% may apply, depending on which network processes the transaction.
So....I'm going to go with this as it is in printed form, thus I can fall back on this information if I am charged differently. This is all so confusing - and believe me bank employees don't know any more about this than anyone else - I should know as I am a BofA employee! I hope this information is helpful to others with BofA accounts. I would suggest that those using other banks, get out their printed disclosures or call the bank and ask for their printed info because I don't believe anyone at a bank knows the answer to these questions!!!!
Foreign ATM's currency conversions: If you use your Card to obtain cash in a currency other than U.S. dollars, the amount is converted into a U.S. dollar amount and we deduct this U.S. dollar amount from your account. The conversion rate is determined under the network's operating regulations and may include exchange and other fees. The converstion rate on the processing or settlement date may differ from the rate on the date of the transaction. An adjustment factor, currently 1% may apply, depending on which network processes the transaction.
So....I'm going to go with this as it is in printed form, thus I can fall back on this information if I am charged differently. This is all so confusing - and believe me bank employees don't know any more about this than anyone else - I should know as I am a BofA employee! I hope this information is helpful to others with BofA accounts. I would suggest that those using other banks, get out their printed disclosures or call the bank and ask for their printed info because I don't believe anyone at a bank knows the answer to these questions!!!!
Aug 30th, 2004, 02:18 PM
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Thank you Patrick for the gracious post.
blh, I am going to print your post.
Now, if I get this wrong, PLEASE excuse me and feel to correct me if you wish, just be gentle
This is targeted to people who live in the Central Florida Area inparticular, of which I know there are some fellow Fodorites living.
I went to SPACE COAST CREDIT UNION today. (CREDIT UNION, they DO operate a little differently than regular banks as I have said before.) The rep, (who had to call someone!) repeated back to me what the other person was saying as they said it.
(I even took all the info from this thread and my bankrate.com information with me.)
1) Yes, there is a 1% conversion fee for credit cards and check cards with Visa logo when used outside the US. This is if you take a cash advance OR use it to buy goods and services on either card.
2) Since I have a PLATINUM stading with the credit union I have no additional fees from them EXCEPT in the case of a cash advance against my credit card and that would be in the form of interest at the rate my credit card interest is normally. (This is not like with Bank of America credit cards which charges a higher interest rate for taking a cash advance than they would charge me for just charging things. This particular rate is non-negotiable, I have tried in the past. Thank goodness I paid that off!)
3)If I use the card at an ATM in Italy I would have NO fee charged by the credit union. I would probably have to pay a fee that is charged by the OTHER institution. Could be anywhere from $0-$5.00 possibly.
4)This crdit union is a member of the plus network, not Cirrus.
DISCLAIMER:
EVERYONE PLEASE CHECK YOURSELF IF THIS IS OF INTEREST.
I wish I did have my BOA disclaimer, but you can bet I will save the next one I get
It will be interesting though to see what BOA research department sends me.
blh, I am going to print your post.
Now, if I get this wrong, PLEASE excuse me and feel to correct me if you wish, just be gentle
This is targeted to people who live in the Central Florida Area inparticular, of which I know there are some fellow Fodorites living.
I went to SPACE COAST CREDIT UNION today. (CREDIT UNION, they DO operate a little differently than regular banks as I have said before.) The rep, (who had to call someone!) repeated back to me what the other person was saying as they said it.
(I even took all the info from this thread and my bankrate.com information with me.)
1) Yes, there is a 1% conversion fee for credit cards and check cards with Visa logo when used outside the US. This is if you take a cash advance OR use it to buy goods and services on either card.
2) Since I have a PLATINUM stading with the credit union I have no additional fees from them EXCEPT in the case of a cash advance against my credit card and that would be in the form of interest at the rate my credit card interest is normally. (This is not like with Bank of America credit cards which charges a higher interest rate for taking a cash advance than they would charge me for just charging things. This particular rate is non-negotiable, I have tried in the past. Thank goodness I paid that off!)
3)If I use the card at an ATM in Italy I would have NO fee charged by the credit union. I would probably have to pay a fee that is charged by the OTHER institution. Could be anywhere from $0-$5.00 possibly.
4)This crdit union is a member of the plus network, not Cirrus.
DISCLAIMER:
EVERYONE PLEASE CHECK YOURSELF IF THIS IS OF INTEREST.
I wish I did have my BOA disclaimer, but you can bet I will save the next one I get
It will be interesting though to see what BOA research department sends me.
