US-UK Terrorist Plot....

Old Aug 11th, 2006, 06:56 AM
  #161  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,885
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I agreed with you on the other thread about our "specialgirl", but in this case you better get some more lessons in history:

I don't want to piss on your chips but we have the Russians and the RAF to thank for that really.

The Russians, while admirably loosing millions of their young men in the war, (because of lack of better military strategy) would have perished too if not for the US supplying military hardware for the tune of hundreds of millions of $. BTW, they still have not paid that bill.....

RAF? great fighting machine, but it was first and above, many of the units were foreign (as in 303 - Polish, who had the best kill ratio out of all the units) and if it wasn't (once again) for the US supplying the hardware, it would have been reduced to nothing, and almost was, but unfortunately for Hitler, he didn't see it when the RAF was almost non existent at some point and could have been finished off....

and ultimately, without US joining the fight, and AMAZINGLY Stalin not only asked for it, but DEMANDED, the western front would not have happened for years at which point Hitler would probably have taken care of both Russia and UK.

Read some books on this and open your eyes.

I will say that US needed and wanted to join the fight for it's own protection. Hitler was also working on long range bombers and nuclear weapons and he was close, so we didn't do it just for fun or to save our friends, but if we didn't then the history would be completly different today.
AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 07:29 AM
  #162  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My sis and I are flying to London YYZ on Sept. 12 via AA and BA. I believe flying shortly after this incident will be safer than pre-incident. We are going to abide by the rules (carry our allowed necessities) in a zip-lock bag and hope our checked luggage makes it through. If not, we will just buy what we need when we get there.
One thing, I think some security profiling instead of random checks that include little old gray-haired ladies may be called for. If the terrorists were "little old gray haired ladies", then I would be all for profiling them!!
MollyB is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 07:29 AM
  #163  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,003
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
C21,

You say they don't hate us for our freedom then you say they hate us because they cannot do something we can? That's sounds like freedom to me. Why can they NOT travel to Europe, eat and drink on the cheap? What's holding them back? Not you, not me, not our government.

While Kaplan's book idolizes the troops (I do too), he is critical of the civilian leadership of the Military. His book is more of a look at the tactical side of things. What needs to be reviewed and changed is our strategic thinking in the entire region. "Western-style" democracy and their religion are diametrically opposed and will probably never mix. It is futile to continue this GWOT. Leave them alone and I'll bet they will leave us alone.

I'm going to Germany next summer and other than grounding all flights to/from Europe for an entire year (and raising the price of economy class to 1st class+), nothing they will do will change my plans. They will inconvenience the hell out of my getting there and returning but I'm going!

MvK
MarkvonKramer is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 07:56 AM
  #164  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"Leave them alone and I'll bet they will leave us alone."

That's just what the French thought when Hitler invaded...then they complained it took the US too long to get there. Many were thankful but you still had grunts out there complaining when they should have not had the same attitude you have today.

Hitler's regime was accepted as a sensible solution by many Germans...what harm is in it? These extremists muslims have an agenda...there is no sensible solution like leaving them alone and leave us alone. Their agenda is again simply put...ALL INFIDELS must die...what are you missing here? You think the peacable Muslims are going to step in and take over their madrassas? Afghanistan...plain and simple. Most muslims are AFRAID of these extremists and they bully their way into power. You need to do more reading yourself...many of your descriptions of Middle East power plays are not factual or complete.

Tara
ma23peas is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 07:58 AM
  #165  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
OK. Hitler has made his appearance. We can all go home now -- or back to planning our next trip.

Funnily, mine's to Germany!
nessundorma is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 07:59 AM
  #166  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm not being provocative, but could you please recommend a book that tells the story of WWII from an american perspective as it appears there were two totally differnt wars going on. The one you learned about and the one we learn about. I'd be interested to see the other viewpoint.
audere_est_facere is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 08:05 AM
  #167  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What did the french learn?
That they fought like lions?
steviegene is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 08:06 AM
  #168  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not getting involved with the above debate...
But wanted to share this quote I love from British Air:

"British Airways, along with all other airlines, has experienced major disruption to its operations at London Heathrow and London Gatwick on Thursday, August 10, due to severe airport congestion following the introduction of new security arrangements."

Is that "stiff upper lip" or Newspeak?

At any rate, my husband still can't get home, so he is just going to stick it out for the weekend instead of trying to get back and forth with all the mess. Well, there are worse places to be "stuck" than London!

I am just so thankful for the brave people who "infiltrate" these groups and "save the world."



Dreamer2 is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 08:52 AM
  #169  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dreamer2 - I was thinking the same thing this morning.

Thank you to the people who put themselves in danger in order to uncover this plot before it came to fruition. The people whose lives you have saved will never know how grateful they should be. We thank you.
travelgirl2 is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:03 AM
  #170  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ok I'm a little confused. According to TSA and CNN you can bring a laptop, MP3 or camera as a carry on; however, British Airways my carrier says that you have to check in those items? So, should i just listen to the carrier? I'm flying to London from LAX on 8/21 and I don't want my electronics broken. . .
jyabroad is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:04 AM
  #171  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Has anyone talked to BA?
jyabroad is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:12 AM
  #172  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,885
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
autere_est_facere,

answer this simple question,

if the Brits didn't need us, why did they agree to name an American general as the Supreme Commander, over Monty, who was furious when he found out that he had to answer to the Yankee?

amd here are some facts:

http://www.ww2pacific.com/lendlease.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=372591

http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-b...wii/lendleas_3

http://www.o5m6.de/main.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease_Sherman_tanks

and finally - Squadron 303 of the RAF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._303...)_Squadron_RAF
AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:14 AM
  #173  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,003
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Tara and C21,

Please read "Imperial Hubris". Or is that not on the RNC/FNC approved reading list? I think that man knows a bit more about the middle east than the lot of us combined.

As for comparing Europeans (France, Germany, WW2) to Islamic extremists is a very innacurate way of looking at this. Want to compare the Druids to the Etruscans? (I haven't a clue where that came from...lol).

You think it is only the extreme members that are behind this, whereas I firmly believe the whole lot of them are too easily "fired-up" (as are many in the USA) with religious rhetoric.

What is your plan? Have them all exterminated? Good luck, they outnumber us and have a much greater will to continue. Do you really want to be involved in this the remainder of your life, your children's lives?

I'm still going to Germany, just not taking my favorite shower gel and toothpaste.

MvK
MarkvonKramer is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:18 AM
  #174  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,853
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Mark - please don't bring the Etruscans into this. You know how tangential these threads can become.
Holly_uncasdewar is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:24 AM
  #175  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 37,221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Do you actually think that there is a way NOT to be involved in "this" for the rest of our lives? Appeasement? Remember the line "peace in our time"? Neville Chamberlain after "negotiating" with Hitler. Not long after London was being flattened. And on a happier note, I'm still going to Paris in November.
crefloors is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:27 AM
  #176  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
MVK
"leave them alone and they'll leave us alone." we tried that. it's called 9-11.

Michael Scheuer -- oh, there's someone without an agenda. Let's see, the head of the Osama bin Laden unit who didn't do anything about OBL. fair and accurate, right.

"they have a much greater will to continue" than you, that seems pretty clear. not those of us who have a proactive instead of passive attitude.
century21 is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:31 AM
  #177  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
MVK -- I forgot to add I do agree with you that it's not just a few of them but a great majority who are too easily fired up.
century21 is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:44 AM
  #178  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,003
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At great risk of my personal e-mail box being filled with neo-con stuff,

C21, please feel free to continue this dialog via e-mail. No name-calling or threats, just an open, frank discussion.

You seem to be a reasonable person, let's discuss this off-line (well, offline from the Fodors forum) and not bore to tears other Fodorites and get this thread pulled.

Any others wanting to joing the fray, you too are welcome. This is not my political blog or forum, just want some good political discourse.

MvK
MarkvonKramer is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:47 AM
  #179  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
JYA -
Check out the ba.com website.

If you are flying OUT of London, you are carrying nothing bigger than a wallet, and definitely NO electronics.

I believe it is the same for flying IN to UK on BA.

Other carriers may have less stringent requirements. Domestic flights in US are still allowing carry-ons and electronics. Just NO fluids, gels, creams, etc.
Dreamer2 is offline  
Old Aug 11th, 2006, 09:50 AM
  #180  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As it stands today for those flying British Air:

"With immediate effect, the following arrangements apply to all passengers starting their journey at a UK or United States of America airport and to those transferring between flights at a UK airport.

All cabin baggage must be processed as hold baggage and carried in the hold of passenger aircraft departing UK airports.

Note:
Passengers are advised that ALL electrical or battery powered items including laptops, mobile phones, portable music players, remote controls etc cannot be carried in the cabin and must be checked in as hold baggage.

Passengers may take through the airport security search point, in a single (ideally transparent) plastic carrier bag, only the following items. Nothing may be carried in pockets: - ... "
Dreamer2 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell My Personal Information


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:25 PM.