US-UK Terrorist Plot....

Old Aug 11th, 2006, 03:39 AM
  #141  
 
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< Does anyone remember the countless number of Moslem men held without charge by British authorities ? >

Under 2 dozen, all of whom have been released once the courts said the government couldn't do that.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 04:04 AM
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yeah, but he has a point. You drive a coach and horses through human rights and the humans get tee'd off. Not that I'm justifying it. I'm truly not.

But if we behave badly, we make consequences.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 04:10 AM
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rsup4429

How do you think you have contributed to this thread by publishing the names? Have you anything to add that isn't published by the press?
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 04:11 AM
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900 or so people have been arrested under anti-terror laws. Around 120 have been charged. That's not actually a bad batting average, around the same as for most crime.

However this one really does look like the real thing.

It also seems the genuine threat is being used to push policies that have sod all to do with terrorism, eg ID cards. All those young men would have had valid British ID cards, and all the 9/11 terrorists travelled under their own identity.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 04:17 AM
  #145  
 
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I had the impression that a goodly number of the accused are British-born. If so there's hardly any question of returning them to Pakistan, as suggested by rsup4429 - even after their being tried and convicted, which obviously has yet to happen.

McSporran, please accept my application for the role of Bishop of Australia in your new religion, subject to an appropriate revenue-sharing agreement.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 04:29 AM
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All the people arrested in Britain are British born British citizens - mainly of Pakistani descent. There are two converts in the group as well.

MacSporran - if you start a new religion I will be forced to burn you at the stake. Nothing personal but them's the rules.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 04:32 AM
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Well Neil Oz - I'll go for the Bishop of Sydney under MacSporran's new religion because hell will freeze over before the Jensens will let me (a mere female) be frocked in any way.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 04:44 AM
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Is a "Jensen" a left footer?
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 05:03 AM
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>>>"Funny - I've never seen any placards being waved at demonstrations reading "inconvenience the infidel!" The verb is invariably "kill."

Robes,

It is of little benefit to this forum or ourselves to engage in a semantics battle with you.

You are very aware of my point, we basically agree. Once we quit funding our own demise by buying oil from the middle east, get out of that region, these issues will end so we can all travel freely and probably at reduced costs.

Call it "cut-and-run" if you wish, I have no interest in, nor will I invest my sons and daughters in a protracted and ill-conceived "war on terror".

MvK
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 05:06 AM
  #150  
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Girlspytravel...several of your points are well taken...I do credit the Pakistani's for some great work but it is now being reported that a major reason this tragedy has been averted was due to an Undercover British Agent who infiltrated this particular group...BRAVO BRITAIN!

Thank goodness for that religious fanatic George Bush....without men like him to realize a growing and real threat with that .0001% of Muslims (I do believe it's greater than that) more like 100x that number who create Madrassas to train their children to KILL THE INFIDELS (Infidels...any and ALL people who do not recognize Mohammed as the one true Prophet of Allah and abide by their interpretation of the Quran) It only takes a handful of zealots to destroy your life as you now live it. Thank goodness there are people who are taking that threat seriously and protecting your life. If you don't want to volunteer and support the defense...atleast your copatriot is.

You're still free to express that opinion...if the Muslim extremists have their way, you won't.

Tara
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 05:15 AM
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Tara, excellent point.

The reason we all can sit around and comfortably post our widely different positions is because we are not at the mercy of the intolerant fanatical sons of Islam. True, the ones that plan and carry out terror is small, but looking at the TV images you can easily see there is much support for their beliefs.

Congratulations to the Brits and Pakistanis for busting this plot.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 05:20 AM
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Why would anyone want the arrested plotters and would-be assassins to be "returned" to Pakistan? I understood from the BBC that almost all of them are British citizens.

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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 05:27 AM
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Tara and Century21,

Let's review recent history. Afghanistan has been invaded by the two major superpowers 2x since 1979. The USA has supported despots like Sadaam in Iraq and the Shah in Iran and has now invaded Iraq 2x in the past 15 years. You believe the hatred in the middle east is because we sit over here free, fat, dumb, and happy?

You can explain away USA actions any way you want. In the minds in the middle east populace, we keep attacking them and/or supporting brutal, corrupt leadership in their countries.

Keep looking for that needle-in-a-haystack terror plot, you'll be looking for many, many years, miss a few, get hit really hard, and lose (give up) more freedoms TO the freedom-fighting and freedom-defending US leadership.

MvK
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 05:30 AM
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Why would anyone want the arrested plotters and would-be assassins to be "returned" to Pakistan? I understood from the BBC that almost all of them are British citizens. >>>>>>>>
The people arrested in Britain are British - there's no prospect of them being deported - they're from here. There is a possibility of extradition to Pakistan if they have committed crimes there. Some may have dual citizenship if they're the sons of first generation immigrants, but that doesn't really matter.

There have also been around half a dozen British citizens arrested in Pakistan, it is believed that it is from these people that the information came to arrest the ones in England. (Presumably the Pakistani secret service has a rather more robust approach to interrogation that the British police). Those people could be deported back to Britain or face trial in Pakistan, and following any sentence then be deported back here.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 05:43 AM
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audere_est_facere

sorry - getting way off topic but the Jensens are a gaggle of ultra conservative anglicans who dominate the Sydney archdiocese and have a huge loathing of the "liberal" views of most Anglicans.

BTW - I agree with you and MarkVonKramer. I find some of these post quite scary as it is evident that they are premised on an ignorance of the basic facts and western law.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 05:50 AM
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Not all of us in the U.S. applaud George Bush and his administration. Some of us have been adamantly against American meddling in the middle east from the very beginning. Many others have **finally** realized that this is a war we won't and can't win. Don't look for any policy changes until the next big elections sweep, though.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 06:02 AM
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MVK,

that's a selective and biased part of "recent history,' to say the least. Sure, the US supported Saddam at one time -- before removing him. And the US supported the Shah -- who was a heck of a lot better than the current nutcases. Afghanistan -- the vast majority despised the Taliban, welcomed the US and wants the US to stay. Hello?

You leave out a lot of "minor" things in history the US got right; oh, maybe destroying fascism when Europe went nuts, winning the cold war, trying to create democracies.

The people in the ME can think whatever they want, but you both are deluding yourselves if you think all your problems are created by the big bad USA.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 06:16 AM
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Century21,

You take my views as biased yet have no factual basis for your assertions.

I leave out minor things that have nothing to do with the current situation (WW2, cold war, etc).

You are delusional if you think the vast majority of Afghani's were against the Taliban. I suggest you read something other that Ms. Coulter's or Mr. O'Reilly's books and get a true understanding of what is going on in the middle east. The current Iranian leadership was democratically elected by the people, not propped-up by the USA, so if this guy is worse than the Shah, the citizens of that country have chosen, not the US or the CIA.

Do you HONESTLY think thse people hate us because we are free? They wouldn't even know of our existence if we had not exploited them to fuel our economy or win the cold war.

I seriously doubt that any change in the US leadership will change the course we are now on.

I just want to visit Europe, flying there as cheaply as possible and the airline make a few $$, travel and meet people, sample their culture, dine and drink with them.

MvK
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 06:18 AM
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You leave out a lot of "minor" things in history the US got right; oh, maybe destroying fascism when Europe went nuts,>>>>>

I don't want to piss on your chips but we have the Russians and the RAF to thank for that really.

Not that some of the rest of your post isn't true...
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 06:38 AM
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MVK, no reason to drag this on forever but 1. no, I don't think they hate us because we're free, I think they hate us because they can't fly to Europe on the cheap and drink and dine, and 2. I don't read O'Reilly, etc. but you can learn a lot from Robert Kaplan's Imperial Grunts.
Cheers.
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