So my wife and i will be taking our first trip to Europe together in March of '12. We will be leaving Raleigh NC and spending 15 days there. Originally we planned on seeing London, Paris, and Barcelona. After months of research i kind of took the lead on the planning and as of today the number of places has increased while the duration in each destination has decreased. the list is now London (3 days), Brussels (2 days), Paris (4 days), Lisbon (2 days), & Madrid (3 days).

I found out how cheap and quick it is to fly EasyJet between these cities and simply don't know when we'll be able to visit Europe again. We will be planning on starting a family next year and so i have my doubts about a return visit for a long time but she is trying to convince me otherwise.

I am the kind of traveler that is quite happy with quick paced "skim the surface and get a taste" type of toursim.... my wife however, not so much. I am prepared to make a compromise and eliminate at least one of these destinations so it's more relaxing. I haven't booked anything yet so i'm open to suggestions other than "just visit 2 places". I'm interested in those that have both DONE this kind of trip and those that decided against it.

i almost forgot... i should mention why i picked these cities in the first place or what sights are the most important:

London- Tower of London, Westminster, London Eye, Leadenhall market, triumphal arches & other monuments, changing of the guard, tower bridge, dinner cruise on river thames, eurostar to brussels in less than 2 hours

Brussels- beer beer beer, belgian waffles, Grand place, Cinquantennaire park, atomium, mini europe, 2 hour train from london

Paris- too many to list.. definitely a place that will NOT be deleted

Lisbon- pastries, belem tower, cristo rei statue, castles in Sintra, dirt cheap public transportation, western most portion of europe (cabo de roca), funicular trams and unique hilly terrain, only an hour easyjet flight from Madrid

Madrid- Retiro park, cosmopolitan atmosphere, tapas bars, gorgeous palaces and monuments, art museum, eating dinner at 10pm, flamenco shows, i speak spanish pretty well, proximity from Lisbon and 2 hour flight from Paris

though flights between cities are cheap and quick, you really do lose most of a day each time you travel from place to place. I would stick with your original top three as you will barely scratch the surface of all there is to see in those places with just 15 days. You have indicated your wife would not enjoy a fast pace of travel and three locations is still a full trip (many people here would tell you to stick to two locations at the most.)

We did a rushed trip with our kids as we didn't think they would get a chance to return to Europe until they finished with college. By the end of our trip, we were all feeling sick and exhausted and I could hardly talk anyone into seeing the sights of London. We learned the hard way and were fortunate to be able to take a second trip with them. The second time around, we went much more slowly and took time to enjoy where we were -- it was a much better trip.

I would seriously reconsider your plan if you want to have an enjoyable trip full of happy memories for the both of you.

Oops, the top part of my message got cut. (I saved it as my computer froze for a bit.)

Anyway, I meant to write that I think you know this itinerary is unreasonable.

I don't think you will find too many posters here who have done 5 cities in 12 days....if I were going to do a trip like that (which I would not) I would just join a tour so I'd have help coordinating all the harried moves from place to place.

At the least I would look int o open jaw flights - into one city (Paris) and out of another (London) so you aren't backtracking.

Sounds like a nightmare trip but whatever flats your boat.

Do you have a prenuptial agreement? If so, you may be in divorce court before you start that family

What you think you have -- London (3 days), Brussels (2 days), Paris (4 days), Lisbon (2 days), & Madrid (3 days) -- is really:

London Barely 2 days free. Your arrival day will likely be a jet lagged fog and you can't be out late day 3 since you'll have to be packed and on the train first thing in the AM.

Brussels 1.5 days

Paris 3.5 days

Lisbon 1.25 days

Madrid 2.25 days

You may think the more places you squeeze in, the more you see/do. But actually - the more you move around, the <u>less</u> you get to see.

I'd personally do just London and Paris --but you could squeeze in one other city for 2 or 3 days.

Be a sport and make your wife happy . . . .

Question? Are the days you have alloted for each place completely allocated for the time there, or do they include travel time? Do the 15 days include travel to/from the states?

Day 1: Arrive London (3 nights?)
Day 4: Train to Brussels (2 nights?)
Day 6: Train to Paris (4 nights?)
Etc.

If your travel time is also part of that, it will eat up a lot more than just the tranport time. If this is how you have it planned, you really have 2&1/2 days in London, 1&1/2 days in Brussels, 3&1/2 days in Paris, etc. Checking out of your hotel, taking taxi, bus or train to airport or train station, taking taxi bus or train to next hotel, etc. really eat up time that you might spend sightseeing closer to a base.
For example, Toledo is only about a half hour train ride from Madrid. Segovia, only about an hour. I would trade Brussels for those.

Another issue I see with your trip is rushing from big city to big city, and missing out on really exciting smaller places nearby. From Paris, do you indend to visit Versailles? From London, what about Bath or Oxford?

Even if flights are cheap, you have the cost of getting to and from the airports, and the enormous loss of time. Unless you are just doing carryon, there may also be extra luggage charges.

I have done both kinds of trips (the fast ones as tours). Ones similar to your plan are just a blur in my memory. My best memories are sitting for hours late at night watching dancers in Plaza Mayor and eating late at night in other small towns in Spain, strolling in London after a late play, hiking or walking a beach all afternoon in France, etc., and not worryig that I needed to catch an early flight the next day to some other city.

Perhaps your wife needs time to soak up the atmosphere of a place to feel she is really "there".

I've also done this kind of trip with regrets afterward. These posters are right - you're simply losing too much time moving from place to place. You could easily spend an entire week in any of your choices but since you want to see more than two places, narrow it down to your top three. I believe both of you will really enjoy it more.

And yes you can go back. People do actually travel with their children!

Paris has better pastries than Lisbon. Also dirt cheap public transportation, a funicular, and hilly terrain (Montmartre). You can do a dinner cruise on the Seine (although I wouldn't do this), and get to Brussels in 2 hours. It has gorgeous palaces and many art museums, you can eat dinner at 10:00 (at Chez Denise you can eat dinner all night long except weekends).

Flights between cities may be quick but it's not quick getting to the airports (except maybe Lisbon) and waiting at the airport and getting to the next hotel.

I would see Madrid and Paris or London and Paris and save your crazy running around for when you have a toddler!

Amen to all of the above. Prevent a divorce; create a happy trip.

You will return. Our kids are now in early 20's and we ended up PREFERRING hardcore international traveling with them, something I would never have believed before we had them. Yep, money once you have kids is a problem, but my husband and I started weighing all purchases for the house against potential travel, and you'll be surprised how not getting a new couch or a new kitchen table, etc can give you financial wiggle room for international airfare.


Back to your trip:

If you cut it to just London, Paris and Brussels (and actually I think a daytrip to Brussels from Paris via TGV is enough)you can do three cities and be talking to each other by the end. This way you can build in a daytrip to Windsor Castle while in London and a daytrip to Versaille in Paris.

If you insist on Madrid, then you should only do it and one of the other cities.

One more voice to add to the chorus. We did something similar on our first trip to Europe and it was exhausting even at our young age. We missed so much and just ran around trying to keep up with our schedule. I remember very little of that trip. Fortunately, we have been back many times and have actually experienced all of your itinerary at a reasonable pace.

You really need to pare down the itinerary. Five days each in London and Paris with a few day trips and a couple of days in Brussels sounds like a nice trip. You don't have enough time in either London or Paris to do them justice but at least you will have an idea of each by the time you leave.

And arrange an open jaw flight into London and out of Paris. Saves the cost and time of backtracking.

Agree with all the above. Totally unreasonable plan. You clearly haven't thought through the actual on-the-ground logistics. I'd start over.

There might be a reason, as the wife, I plan all our trips! I tried to get my husbands help once and we were all over Europe drinking beer and not much else haha

On a serious note, I think your first option sounds amazing, London, Paris and Barcelona. I think you could easily train between London and Paris, thus avoiding the plane hassels. I think there is also a night train between Paris and Barcelona but a flight might make more sense for that trip.

Many years ago I did a quick tour through Rome/Paris/London, I have to stay I don't remember London I was so exhausted by the end, and I was only 16!

A couple of things -- yes, I've done trips like this, no I haven't hated it. However, we've had a full 21 days of exploration, not including flight over. And we used overnight trains to cut down on loss of day exploration.

Big BUT for this particular project is the massive territory you're planning on covering, so yes, it's going to be more ambitious than even I might attempt. We've done open jaw into Lisbon and out of Paris (that trip was Lisbon, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris), using night trains (Trenhotel) from Lisbon to Madrid, Madrid to Barcelona, then Barcelona to Paris. So it worked well, and with three weeks, we had plenty of time to explore.

For your first trip to Europe, I wouldn't miss London. So I would suggest, as others have, for the "taste" not the full experience, London, Paris & Brussels. If you really want to push it, London, Paris, Madrid. But London, Paris & Brussels are all within a (relatively) compact area in the great scheme of things.

I'm not sure I'd have a river cruise on the Thames in March -- I'm wondering if they even have them then. Perhaps. I just wouldn't plan it ahead of time, that's for sure, since March can be pretty cold, windy, soggy, and the Thames is, IMO, only pretty fabulous on a boat when it's sunny and warm. Summer is a lovely time.

On the other hand, a boat trip on the Seine, even in March, even in the rain, is pretty nice!

We tend to go back and forth between fast paced trips and slow paced trips. If we have only 2 weeks, we generally cover two places (for example London with day trips, and a side trip to Dublin).

Finally, listen to your wife. My husband did. We covered a good 3 week trip to Paris/Venice/Florence/Rome when our son was just 13 months old. He had a blast. He's 21 now and he's been to Europe 10 times.

this is all very VERY helpful!! I've read that lots of americans try to squeeze too much in a short amount of time and it just ends up being exhausting. Back to the itinerary:

London is one of Raleigh-Durham's only 2 direct international flights so i'd like to keep that and Paris. Brussels isn't far from Paris (and i agree, most of the major sights can be covered w/ a day trip there)

Open to other good suggestions as well

Sassafrass, in answer to your question those days did NOT include time for travel. Day one is London from overnight flight

London, Paris, Brussels... and do a few daytrips if you want to mix it up. Versailles is great from Paris and from London you could do Bath.

I would factor the weather in as another motivator for slowing down. The weather in March isn't going to be wonderful (especially in London). You will probably want to take some time to warm up in a pub in front of a fire with a pint! Some of the best travel experiences are just that... experiences!

I think the unreasonableness has to do with the mismatch between what you intend to accomplish and the constraints. Looser constraints, more days, for example, is no less unreasonable if accompanied by more goals.

Certain decisions can box you into smaller set of options. For me, while direct flights are desirable, it in itself is not the driver factor of an itinerary. I choose the flights by how well they integrate into the whole itinerary to accomplish what I want to do within the constraints.

I have taken trips like this and in July I'll spend 4 nights in Iceland, 2 nights in London and 5 nights in Paris BUT I have been to these places before.

I think for a first time trip when you don't know a city well you'll find it takes longer to navigate.

Split your time between London and Paris with a 2 day side trip to Brussels. Fly open jaw; into London and home from Paris if possible and use Eurostar to get between these cities.

You describe Paris as a place with too many sights to list.. You won't be able to see them all in a week then!

London, Paris, maybe Madrid.

Large parts of Lisbon are fairly squalid and hiking all the way to Portugal for pastries when you can turn left or right on a given street in Paris and obtain same is a bit odd.

I'm thinking you can get beer and Belgian waffles in places not located within Belgium. And if you're thinking of day-tripping to somewhere in Belgium from Paris, check the train schedule to Bruges -- it's a more attractive city.