On another thread I wrote about a 2 week trip going from SFO to Germany/Venice/Paris and back, flying out of FRA (got a Lufthansa special on 2 biz tix to and from FRA, so no open jaw this time). We like traveling by train; DH needs broadband/Net access.

The itinerary, with some help, is shaping up:

arrive, take train to Munich, 2 nights there

3 nights Venice (Locanda Orseolo)

2 open days/nights

3 nights Paris

Night train to Berlin

2 days /1 night Berlin

train to near Frankfurt (Cologne?) and overnight stay

Fly back to SFO 12:40 p.m.

We don't want to head to Paris earlier, because due to some special event the prices are jacked up about double (we're staying at an officers' club type place with reciprocal privileges). We also don't want to extend the Venice time, because though we love it there too, the prices are high and we'd like to moderate costs on the rest of our trip. Luckily, I imagine due to the season, many places are really very reasonable.

Some thoughts we have are Turin, Lyon and the like; have been to Milan, kind of early for the lakes, haven't seen much of Piedmont or east/south of France.

DH will be working some daily (via computer); I will mostly be off duty. We like walking around, seeing the towns, eating at cafes -- casual/family run/bistro style rather than Michelin star type places at the present juncture. Culture, history, scenery; we are fit and take carry on baggage. Welcome suggestions for interesting stopping points, ideally not too far out of the way from roughly the train route from Venice to Paris. Thanks for your suggestions!

Particularly wondering about Piedmont or southeastern France. Suggestions? Grazie mille.

You are moving very fast and not leaving much time to see the destinations you have chosen. Moving between these locations will take a great deal of the little time you have alloted. I think I would fly between Venice and Paris and allot one of your free days to Paris and one to either Munich or Venice. There is really not enough time in your trip to add a destination.

"arrive, take train to Munich, 2 nights there...

3 nights Paris

Night train to Berlin

2 days /1 night Berlin

train to near Frankfurt (Cologne?) and overnight stay"

I am ignorant about Piedmont, but not about train travel, and I can say with some confidence that you are simply spending too much time inside a train and too little with your feet on the ground. You might be able to sample a bit of Munich with 2 nights, and a bit of Paris with 3. But seeing Berlin after a (possibly sleepless) night on the train in just 2 days is some sort of endurance test, not a vacation. Berlin is a 4-5 day stay to justify a trip there - and then you plan to go BACK to Frankfurt! I suggest you drop it. You have 2 nights after Paris - spend them in one place near FRA and see something that you actually have time for. Cologne would work if you have specific things you want to see that would require 2 days. But for me, Cologne is just OK and requires less time. You might try this - take the Thalys to Cologne in the morning (about 3 hours,) stow bags in a locker, and spend the afternoon there seeing the cathedral and museums, then grab a train to the Middle Rhine (Koblenz or thereabouts) for that night and one more. In between, see some castles, and if WW II stuff was the point of Berlin, maybe visit the great little museum in Remagen.

www.marksburg.de (in Braubach, 12 min. from Koblenz by train)
www.bruecke-remagen.de (north of Koblenz)

If you stay in Koblenz, your travel time to FRA for your flight out is approximately the same as from Cologne.

Thanks; these are return visits to Paris, Venice, and Munich, so additional exploring over previous stays (which have been extensive in Venice). The Berlin stop does seem short to me but is predicated on the Paris hotel issue/timing somewhat. Yes, we may end up dropping Berlin since it is the outlier. Could drop a day in Paris to add to Berlin, however.

Would be just as happy in Koblenz as Cologne and could do it before FRA. We are train travelers by preference and some of the time will entail scan reading over the Net; we might as well be on a train as in a cafe during work time.

I know it's in the wrong direction but since you mention Piedmont, have you been to Bologna ? We stayed for 2 nights a few years ago, really liked it & would have liked to stay longer. Or Padua ? What about Genoa, which at least is sort of in the right direction ? I haven't been myself and thought it was supposed to be quite industrial & uninteresting, but I remember another poster here recently who had very much enjoyed a week there & was going back. We didn't find Lyon very interesting.

Thanks, caroline-- just the feedback I was hoping for. We spent a week in Ravenna last visit and a little time in Bologna but not much -- also DH mentioned Genoa (my grandfather was apparently from there) -- train service to and from looks good. If we ditch Berlin we will have even more time to explore that area. (Loved Cinque Terre; DH hasn't been there.

Re: Padua -- yes I was fortunate to get there, even saw the Scrovegni Chapel -- have not spent significant time in Verona, though, or again, any significant time in Piedmont or even Liguria, and know nothing about south or eastern France.

Hi Ann. Ooh, if your grandfather was from Genoa you obviously need to go ! The Scrovegni Chapel is wonderful, isn't it ? We will be in Venice when you get there - we fly out on 4th March.

Hi Ann,

www.bahn,de says that there is a direct train Venice Santa Lucia to Geneva at 16:20.
The 09:42 and the 14:29 will take you directly from Geneva to Paris.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Caroline and Ira! Caroline where do you stay in Venice?

Hi Ann. We stayed at La Calcina 5 times but the last 2 holidays we stayed in an apartment, last year at the same one Peter_S_Aus has stayed at in Calle Lunga San Barnaba and this year at Truly Venice's 'Orseolo' apartment on Fondamenta Bollani. So we've always stayed in Dorsoduro. In March we've booked to stay in one of the other Calle Lunga apartments (in the same house) for the first 2 weeks, and hope we will be able to keep it on a week by week basis thereafter if need be while we look for a long term rental.

Caroline - how long term a rental will you be looking for? And what are your requirements (studio, 1 BR, tub or shower preference, washer, etc.)?

Hi Holly. Well, we are hoping to stay for ever if we can, so assuming 6 months or a year's rental to start ? (Not sure what is usual.) One bedroom, just a shower is fine, washing machine, somewhere to sit outside; dishwasher & aircon in the bedroom would both be nice but assuming we might not get them. Hoping to be in Dorsoduro but obviously depends on what's available at the right price. Why, might you be able to help ? Do you have properties yourself or a contact who has ? Thanks very much.

Ann- sorry to hijack your thread !

In considering between Turin and Lyon, please read up on the food at each place. I loved both and have a personal fave, but it might not be what you'd choose.

Which would be more convenient to your travelling agenda?

Caroline - the place I've been staying every March for the last 8 years has 5 units in a building directly across from the Frari. I should've checked the calendar before I posted above; looks like he's got reservations already. Anyway, you might want to check it out. He's got 3 studios, a 1 BR and a 2 BR. All have washers, some have balconies, only 1 has A/C (and that one has lousy water pressure in the shower). His ad says he would let long-term, but I have no idea how much of a discount he would apply there. Anyway, worth a look. If you can work something out, he might be able to move you around the reservations.


It's at holiday-rentals.co.uk Property 137.

Dijon is along the main rail line to Paris and I hear it's lovely (but haven't been). A personal recommendation would be to stop in Lausanne (or Vevey or Montreaux), Switzerland. All situated on the lake makes for lovely sightseeing. Or, if you want to just "chill", stay a night or two at Lavey les Bains, a modern hotel with thermal water pools and spas (within an hour or so of Lausanne via train/post bus).

http://www.lavey-les-bains.ch/index.php

These are all helpful suggestions, thanks, and no problem about hijacking! It's just more good stuff to read!

Many thanks again; we are thinking of a stop in Dijon. We added a night to Berlin after Paris.

Hope you'll do a trip report. Bon Voyage!