I am, like many others who have previously posted rail questions in the past, overwhelmed with rail options for hubby and me. After reading through many of the threads here I believe I have figured out what I want to do. ie. Lander vs RailPass, point to point vs railpass, railpass vs railpass. yadda yadda. I am hoping some of you veterns will take a look at what I have planned and see if I did OK on this or really missed the boat. Larryincolorado???

Nov 30 - Vienna to Salzburg. Will purchase point to point 1st Class due to length of trip and multiple bags.

Dec 1 thru 4 - Salzburg to Munich and then base day trips out of Munich. For the flexibility of travel, such as leaving before 9:00am, I am going to purchase Twin Pass.

Questions:
RailEurope sells for 247 pp for 4 day 2 Class pass. Can purchase on line.

Bahn.D sells for approx E 258 for two or roughly converted into USD of 190 pp. Does this look like I am reading this correctly? I thought there was a US based phone number but I didn't see one.??? Does Twin Pass also include S Bahn use? Is there a purchaseable protection plan in case of theft or loss as RailEurope?

It appears that BahnD is cheaper than RailEurope. Is that because it is a booking agency? Are there any other differences I should be aware of?

Hoping to hear back from some of you. This is basically the last item that has not be arranged yet and I would like to complete that soon.


Many thanks,

Gwen

First, I don't think that the Bahn sells German Rail passes online. The webpage does say that you can buy it online, but I think they are referring to authorized US outlets, like RailEurope. I think you can buy a limited selection (5 or 10 day only) of German Rail passes at certain train stations in Germany, but not the complete offering.

RailEurope sells the 4 day DB twin pass for $430 for 2 people, $215 per person, $53.75 per day. How much do you want to spend for "flexibility". A Bayern-Ticket split between two people is less than $20 per person (vs $54!). If you want to leave Munich before 9 AM, simply purchase point-point ticket for the travel before 9.

I wouldn't recommend the railpass, but it is valid for the S-Bahn in Munich. The Bayern-Ticket, on the other hand, is valid for all transport, U-Bahn, buses, and streetcars, in addition to the S-Bahn.

I bought a 5-day twin pass last year from bahn.de and received the ticket within a week. They need both passengers' names and starting date. This info printed on the ticket.

OK, now I see it. I had expected links to be underlined. You can purchase 5 & 10 day rail passes online at http://www.bahn.de/international/vie..._booking.shtml, but only 5 & 10 day passes. As I said, you can also purchase 5 & 10 day passes at aide offices (such as Euraide) in selected stations over there.

Since Gwen is only going to be there for 4 days, a 5 day 2nd class twin at €280 will cost her at least €35 per person per day. That compares with €13,50 per person for a Bayern-Ticket. True, most regional trains leave Munich Hbf at just before 9 AM, so you have to wait until almost 10 to use the Bayern-Ticket. However, most trains that leave before 9 are still inside the MVV at 9, so a 3-zone point-point ticket for €6,90 pP (€18 up to 5P) will cover you before 9. 6,90 + 13,50 = €20,40 is still less than €35.

Hi G,

Salzburg/Munich is 25E pp at www.bahn.de.

There is also a Germany-Austria Pass you may want to consider

Actually, Salzburg to Munich is €32 via ICE or €28 via IC/EC. The €25,40 fare is by regional trains. Those are full fare tickets, fully refundable and exchangeable, still less than a day of a railpass.

For two people, you can buy the Bayern-Ticket in Salzburg for €27 (€13,50 per person) and ride the same trains as with the €25 fare.

Regioanal trains take 2 hrs (+/-); Express take about 1/2 hr less.

With the Bayern-Ticket you also get unlimited use of all the conveyances (U-/S-Bahn, streetcars, buses) in metro Munich (MVV) for the rest of the day after you arrive.

Herr Larry:

The 9am rule - is it enforced on weekends?

danke

No, the 9 AM rule only applies to travel on weekdays. See www.bayern-takt.de (click on "Englishe Version", then on the red rectangle with "€27&quot.

Also, for travel before 9 on weekdays, the 8:17 RB out of Salzburg goes through Bernau a Chiemsee just after 9 AM, so with a Bayern-Ticket and point-point tickets (€9,90) from Salzburg to Bernau, two can do the trip for €23,40 each, still less than full fare for the same train, and a lot less than a railpass day.

sorry to ask a really stupid question: the 27 Euro Bayern Ticket, can I use it for travel from Salzburg or Innsbruck (Austria) to Liechstenstein or some other border town between Austria and Switzerland.

we (my hubby and i) will be in munich, salzburg, innsbruck, either liechstenstein or appenzell then B.O.(lauterbrunnen) to go up to jungfrau. i am still trying to decide which rail pass in most suitable for us. we will be renting a car during our 4 days in munich to go to rothenburg and do the ludwig castles and oberammergau. not sure if we should drive or take the train from the point of our trip where we will be in salzburg to innsbruck then to switzerland.

help please. the choices are dizzying. thanks in advance.

No the Bayern ticket is not good in Austria except on two routes - one to Salzburg, a few miles inside the Austrian border but considered a Germany railway station for tarifcation purposes and the Reutte-Garmish-P line that runs thru Austria but which has German trains coming from a part of Germany to another part of Germany but thru Austria

No other exceptions to my knowledge

You will benefit greatly by a Swiss Pass however - either a 3-day flexipass where you get 50% off most everything from trains to boats to buses on the days you do not have 100% travel (the 3 days) or a consecutive day pass - yeh for the journey you propose a Swiss Pass is in order IMO

Three sites i always recommend for Swiss train info and pass info - www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - sites that give tons of objective info as well as the usual pass prices that most other sites only seem to provide. And www.swisstravelsystem.com links you to the Swiss Railways site and sites of lake boats, scenic trains, postal buses, etc. www.sbb.ch for regular fares to compare to the pass - passes are sold in Switzerland but currently at rates significantly higher than those sold in the U.S. - you can see this by checking pass prices in CHF (Swiss Francs) on www.sbb.ch and those from the two sites i mention above. Pass prices in the U.S. are always the same no matter where you buy them. Agents can tack on mailing fees however - $15 in the case of ricksteves.com

It helps to know that <b>Bayern</b> is the official name for the SE-most German state, the state English speaking people mistakenly call &quot;Bavaria&quot;. Why would a &quot;Bavarian&quot;-Ticket be honored in Switzerland? Do you expect to use the Swiss Pass in Germany, or maybe Spain?

That section of rail through the Tirol from Pfronten to Garmish-Partenkirchen via Vils and Reutte is called the &quot;Au&szlig;erfernbahn&quot; after the Au&szlig;erfern (far out?) Pass in the Tirol. It is connected with Austrian Rail tracks only by way of German Rail tracks via GaP and Mittenwald to Innsbruck and thus is run by German Rail (Bayerische Eisenbahngesellshaft) and included in the Bayern-Ticket.

In addition to Salzburg, there is one more non-German &quot;border&quot; station at Kufstein, which is on the Inn River just over the border from Germany, on the line to Innsbruck. The Bayern-Ticket is valid to Kufstein, just like to Salzburg.

Actually, the Bayern-Ticket, which gives unlimited travel all day on weekends and after 9 AM on weekdays, on all regional trains in Bayern, is ideal for just those kind of side trips from Munich for which you are renting a car. Most of the connections to Rothenburg are by regional train, as are all of the trains to F&uuml;ssen and Oberammergau.

In addition, you avoid the potential hassle of parking in Munich or possible getting lost and missing your castle appointment. No worry about liability, either. At &euro;27 for the two of you (up to five, actually), it probably costs less than gas for a round trip.

thanks Larry. if we take the train from Salzburg to Innsbruck instead of driving,(which btw is very logical and practical and more cost effective)are we going to miss some memorable scenic drives? the reason we originally thought of driving through most of the Bavarian area is to see a lot of beautiful alpine scenery and stop at small villages for lunch or snack or short exploration like a visit to a local market (ala driving in provence). but then, is this realistic or even practical? planning this makes me question these as we have limited time in the Bavarian region-8 nights altogether between germany and austria. another 5 nights in switzerland.

It seems to be a common misconception that all of southern Bayern (Bavaria) is an alpine area. Not true. In most cases the Alps arise rather abruptly at the Austrian border, with very little &quot;foot hills&quot;, almost like the Grand Tetons in this country. So, you have a high mountain, like the Zugspitze, at 10,000' and at the base, just a few km away, Garmish-Partenkirchen is only 2300'. Almost all of the major towns near the border (Oberstdorf, F&uuml;ssen, GaP, Bayerischzell, Berchtesgaden) are all less than 3000' (Mittenwald is just over 3000').

So, if you take the fastest way from Salzburg to Innsbruck, through Germany to Rosenheim, then up the Inn River, you are not going to see much &quot;Alpine scenery&quot;.

The fastest way from Salzburg to Innsbruck is either a German ICE or an Austrian EuroCity (&Ouml;EC), which make the trip through Germany non-stop in less then 2 hrs for about &euro;35 pP. You could also do it with German Regional trains with a &euro;27 (up to 5P) Bayern-Ticket in 3 hrs. These trains make a lot of stops (change in Rosenheim) so you could see some of the smaller towns on the way, but like I said, they are not alpine towns.

If you really want to see alpine scenery I think you would have to go through Austria by way of Zell am See. That would take you 3-1/2 to 4 hours by express train or 4 to 5 hours by regional train.

But the Salzburg- Innsbruck route via Zell and Kitxbuhel is so much more scenic than the quicker Korridor route via Germany

the train tracks down Alpine valleys most of the way as well as passing placid lakes like at Zell

Zell-am-See makes a perfect stopping off place IMO - we walked around the lake but you can also take boats in season - a really cute town on a really cute lake