zeppole

Funny, but the ricotta is the only thing I *don't* have and I was wondering if I'd miss that one spoonful. (I've gone native here in Liguria anyway, where no amount of salt is too much. We need it! You really sweat up these staircases going out to buy ricotta!)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2639/...ed28e77a21.jpg

Centralparkgirl

Z and F you cause me to digress. Melograno rang a bell and then I remembered that I wanted to eat in a byob restaurant by the same name in Philadelphia July 4th weekend. It was highly recommended and I was very disappointed that they decided to close that day. We ended up going to another highly recommended trattoria called Amis. I won't say the pasta was astonishing, but at the time, I called it perfect. It was strozzaprete alla vongole. When you taste something with vivid fresh flavors cooked to perfection, it can be wondrous.

zoecat

Franco, thank you for suggesting Il Melograno. I have been looking for a place to stay in the area and it fits my needs. I love the area and look forward to a future 2 week stay.

One of my favorite places to stop for wine (or beer- all local) and a light meal or snack is Cantina L'Ottava Rima in Sorano. It is one of the most beautiful and unique places I have visited in Italy. I think it is only open Friday night and throughout the weekend.

http://www.cantinaottavarima.it/home.html

franco

zeppole, with the heat, I think not even I would go out for that one spoonful of ricotta, admittedly. Let us know how it came out without ricotta, and there will still be gorgeous tomatoes available when the temperature will be more tolerable, for a 2nd try with ricotta.

I'm glad that Melograno is obviously making everybody happy, it's a special place indeed. zoecat, that place looks nice indeed! Nice website, too, though they don't give their opening hours there...

zeppole

centralparkgirl,

I don't know if I've previously suggested this to you, but with your interest in tracking down the tastiest food, I urge to also invest in David Downie's Food and Wine of the Italian Riviera and Genoa. It's published by little book press. You can get it from Amazon if your bookstore doesn't have it. It has fantastic detail and restaurant recommendations for all the le Cinque Terre towns and Levanto -- and I do hope you will have time to get to Chiavari and Sestri Levante to eat (and Rapallo for a gelato at Frigidarium!) But you really want to get the best pesto while you are here.


Franco (and zoecat), digressing further

I once stayed in a stylish but very affordable B&B called Il Melograno in Moncalvo (Piemonte)

http://www.lalocandadelmelograno.it/pages/locanda.htm

Centralparkgirl

zeppole - I actually saw the book yesterday in Barnes & Noble. I'll check it out. I have Fred Plotkin's book, but it doesn't concentrate enough on any one place. Do you know of any food books about Tuscany?

zeppole

There are so many but I'm not the person to recommend any because I don't much fancy Tuscan cooking.

I don't know if you've previously followed Plotkin's recommendations when eating in Italy, but if you found them valuable, he once collaborated Lorenza De'Medici on a book about Italian eating -- and I'm guessing he wouldn't risk his reputation unless he admired her knowledge and cooking.

She has written (without Plotkin) two books of Tuscan food culture, both of which Beautiful have lots of pictures which might help you set an itinerary:

http://www.amazon.com/My-Tuscany-Rec...381342&sr=1-12

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0002550326/${0}

franco

Now, zeppole, perhaps this thread is where we should enter into that discussion of Tuscan cuisine that we are planning on for some time already... Lorenza De'Medici's books are famous, though I have to admit I've never looked at them. Nor have I at the ones I'm going to recommend now, but I can confirm that their author, Fabio Picchi, is one of the top masters of Tuscan cooking, so they might be worth checking out: http://www.edizioniteatrodelsalecibr...=43&Itemid=37; the second book is brand-new.
Picchi is the chef-owner of Cibreo and Cibreino in Florence, and not just an apostle of authentic Tuscan cooking: he's actually the pope! The problem with Tuscan cuisine is that it's difficult to trace, nowadays; Tuscany used to be a poor region for centuries (after the times of the Medici, until well after WWII), so when it became a mainstay of the international tourism circuit, the typical "poor" dishes (cucina povera) were quite incompatible with the new-born glamour. So Tuscany did what Italy is normally reluctant to: it embraced inventive cooking, to the degree of almost completely obliterating traditional Tuscan fare. But while inventive chefs are responsible, in many countries, for the best and most interesting that the cuisine has to offer (particularly in countries where traditional cooking isn't much to write home about - think Germany, think Great Britain; but of course, not just - think France!), it's different in Italy: excellence means tradition there, and inventive chefs and their creations... oh well! I know many of you could post several excellent inventive Italian restaurants now, but please don't: I know some, too. But as a rule, it's best to avoid creative experiments in Italian gastronomy. In a country where traditional dishes are already so perfect that it's almost impossible to improve them, the most part of inventive cooking goes to prove just that: that what is almost impossible in general has been totally impossible for the particular chef. That's why I do understand, zeppole, that you are less than impressed with contemporary Tuscan cooking - but are you sure that it's really fault of Tuscan cuisine rather than fault of the sad fact that Tuscan cuisine has all but disappeared? Internationally, if a restaurant is being advertised as "Tuscan", you can bet that its offerings will be a chef's fantasies, or, as one of my favourite Italian recipe books would put it, "acrobazie, artifizi, lontani davvero dalla tradizione" (acrobatics, artifices, far indeed from tradition).
It's easy to check: have a look at their primi piatti! If pasta abounds, stay away from the restaurant, or put the book back on the shelf. Traditional Tuscan fare includes pasta just rarely: around Siena, they had pici (thick handmade spaghetti); in the north-western mountains, testaroli (see above); in Pisa, handcut pasta squares called brachette. Period! And even there, they didn't have pasta every day like in most other Italian regions. But Tuscany wasn't polenta country, either (like the Alpine regions in northern Italy), nor risotto country like Lombardia. Tuscany's primi used to be soups: unusually thick soups, in fact more mash than soup. And (for the secondi, above all) plenty of offals: poor man's country.
For Cibreo/Cibreino, I can vouch: Fabio Picchi never prepares any pasta dish, just traditional Tuscan primi (yet with an inventive touch, here and there: he is one of those rare masters who actually can concoct some improvements). Go figure! NO pasta since 1979, in a city brimming with foreign tourists for whom pasta is the essence of the Italian way of life. Hats off!

ekscrunchy

This book offers some interesting details about the food of the region:


http://www.amazon.com/Culinary-Trave.../dp/1892145367

I wonder if we should resurrect our Italian cuisine thread, Franco?? My comments are brief this week as I do not have full internet service at my present location, but that will change after a few days..

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...alian-cuis.cfm

franco

Yes, perhaps we should resurrect it. (ek, please check your Cilento thread when you can.)

TDudette

A little ps about Deruta. Yes, it is a pottery town but it also has an interesting pottery museum. Go to the upper town first. DH and I enjoyed our day trip there-bussed from Perugia and walked up to the upper town. We were there in March and many sweet galleries were still closed for the season.

annhig

thanks Zeppole and franco for giving us all these great links.

by chance i am cooking lamb tomorrow so I will try the melograno recipe - once I've translated it, that is!

zeppole

Yes, I'm sure that explains it. I am extremely fond of testaroli (which Ligurians of course claim as their own), less fond of ribbolita and zuppa di farro (although Buca di Sant"Antonio sets the standard.) A few wonderful mash "primi" I've had in Tuscany have been incredibly simple and good -- tomato pulp muddled with an egg and potatoes (essentially mashed) thinned with milk and flavored with rosemary.

I of course like the fishy food of the Maremma and Livorno.

But once you get into animal fat, the Tuscans really overdo it!

By the way, Franco, you can buy online an excellient artisan testatroli, sotto vuoto, made by Frantoio Lucchi e Guastalli

http://www.dalleterre.com/SelectCat....%20artigianale

zeppole

(The above post was in response to franco's)

franco

zeppole, that tomato-egg-milk-potato primo sounds de-li-ci-ous. Do you remember where you got it? I'm really grateful for the testaroli link, cause much as I love to eat them, I readily admit that making them myself is much less fun. How have your spaghetti con pesto alle olive been?

sandra3120

Franco and Zeppole - thanks for all the sites; I will enjoy picking around. I have eaten at Cibreo every time I'm in Florence and it is truly a wonderful experience. There was - don't know if it's still there - another quite marvelous place in Oltrarno, just on the river, half a block from Ponte alla Carraia, called Becco Fino that was superb, as well. When I've stayed in Pozzo, I have visited Lucignano for dinner many times. It's a small functioning Italian hilltown and well worth the short drive from the valley.

Zeppole - completely off topic, but I'm very curious, and a bit envious, too: there have been a few other posts regarding Americans wanting to move to Italy, but needing work to do so, and that seems to be nearly impossible. If you feel like sharing, how did you do it?

Sandra

zeppole

I can roll my answers to everybody into one post!

The "primi" were from Lucignano -- the restaurant Da Toto -- but they are two separate primi -- one the tomato with egg (it has some onion in it, for sweetness) that has a great consistency, and the other is simply a potato-milk puree, flavored with rosemary. I'm still in the process of trying to replicate them with guesswork. Maybe sandra3120 has had other delicious primi in Lucignano she would share. (Sandra, I wouldn't dream of sharing my ex-pat tale on Fodor's! It's perfectly legal but Franco would only best it with his -- the more inspiring story, I've doubt in the world!) I think Lucignano has knock-out architecture and a great ambience.

As for my spaghetti, Franco, it became lasagne (so much faster to boil) and since I can buy such exquisite olive paste from artisinal producers around here, I cheated. What was really good was the pile of fresh string beans a neighbor gave me, just dressed with olive oil and salt. Try those testaroli! They are very good. Lucchi & Guastalli are premium olive oil producers from near Castelnuovo Magra.

sandra3120

Zeppole - oh, pooh! And here I harboured hopes of an insider's view of how to get from here to there and actually be able to stay...

I agree with you entirely on Lucignano - it's a tiny wondrous place. I think we ate once in Il Goccino, once in Toto, and twice in La Tavernetta, I think - it's just inside the entrance to the town coming from Pozzo, across the S73 - straight shot more or less - and has three floors, the top one of which has a stained glass ceiling. The one I remember is from Da Toto, a chicken cooked with juniper that was wonderful. I do remember crostini from one of the others, which one in particular I don't remember, which were just perfect for a small supper after a long day and the presentation which was remarkable. We'd met a food writer also staying at Villa Fontelunga and he wanted particularly to see whatever place it was and to take photos of the presentation - sad that I don't remember more of that little jaunt and it was only 5 years ago. Last time I was at Cibreo, a year ago, I had a marvelous sausage and canellini dish which I wouldn't mind in the last having again - very soon. I'd like to spend my birthday in Florence this year, which is a day after the initial poster's coincidentally.

Franco - I had no idea you also had moved to Italy. Since Zeppole won't share how she did it, will you? That was typed while chuckling, by the way!

Sandra

franco

Sandra, I had no idea of having moved to Italy, either. Plus I'm your model anonymous poster, sorry.
However, I don't think it's so extremely difficult to find work in Italy, provided you seriously speak Italian. When browsing Italian websites, don't you share the impression that they could use some good Italian-English (or Italian-anything, for that matter) translators? Another question is whether you'd earn enough to make a living; Italian wages are notoriously low, and if you crave a house or an apartment, you'd better inherit it. But if you come to Italy with a capital, and just need to earn the current expenses, it shouldn't be too difficult. Competent tourist guides with foreign language skills, of course, are in high demand in many Italian places, so what we're doing here (advising tourists going to Italy) could already earn you money when living there.
Btw, who noticed? As long as Centralparkgirl doesn't come back, I guess we're capable of carrying this thread all over the Apennine peninsula, and twice around the world; and in the end, back to Tuscany, I'm almost sure. When the cat's away, the mice will play.

annhig

lol franco, perhaps she's only having a day off [her last post was on July 17th].