Trip report Ukraine

Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 07:25 AM
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Trip report Ukraine

I just returned from a very interesting tour in Southern Ukraine. We were searching for our Jewish roots in a region of Ukraine that had been a part of Hungary when the family emigrated shortly after World War One. (It was briefly a part of Czechoslovakia and now is a part of Ukraine.) The trip was fascinating and eye-opeing. Needless to say, there are very few Jews left in the area. Most died at Auschwitz but a few survived and either left of suffered under Stalin. The area is very rural and still seems somewhat Soviet because the economy is poor. On all the farms we passed all of the labor is done by hand. We saw lots of gypsies traveling in horsecarts. It truly seems like another world.

We engaged a wonderful tour guide whom I highly recommend who picked us up in his minivan in Budapest. He is Ukrainian and his name is Valeriy ([email protected] and website is www.camellia-tour.com). He drove us all around the region. Valeriy speaks 6 languages and drove us all over the place. He did a great job navigating the backup at the Hungarian/Ukraine border, which you have to see to believe. He did some research for us and even found someone with the same last name whom we visited. My husband speaks Russian (which Ukrainians often speak), but Valeriy was a very good translator and was willing to take us anywhere and try to find anything. For anyone who has an interest in traveling to Ukraine, I highly recommend him. It is not an easy region to travel in if you are looking for information; we went to the remaining synagogue in Mukachevo (there had been 17 before WWII) and talked to people and looked at pictures. It doesn't help that the Soviets changed all the names of towns and we weren't really sure of the old names. By talking to some people, we were able to find the tiny village we were seeking and found a terribly overgrown and worn down Jewish cemetary that we think is where some family members are buried.

In terms of logistics, it was simpler to drive from Budapest because this part of Ukraine is so far from (500 miles) from Kiev. (Incidentally, Budapest was lovely, and also was interesting from a Jewish perspective.) The two larger cities in Ukraine we went to were Mukachevo and Uzhgorod (pop. 60,000 and 120,000 respectively). We stayed at the Star Hotel in Mukachevo which is a 4 star hotel (very unusal in that part of the world)and was quite nice and inexpensive. We had large two room suites, which were the nicest rooms in the hotel, for about $125 a night. Food was very cheap but good.

If you take a trip like this, a guide is essential and Valeriy was excellent.

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Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 09:37 AM
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Hi Irene,

Sounds like you did well.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 09:42 AM
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Hi Irene,

Very interesting trip and trip report. It's wonderful to have postings and information on the less traveled countries. Hopefully you'll post some more of your experiences and impressions of Ukraine.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 09:46 AM
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Thanks so much for posting your fascinating trip report.
We were in Armenia last year and it sounds like the same mix of a rural flash back in time and the post Soviet decay in the cities.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 10:42 AM
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I too enjoyed the report and it reminded me of when we were in Romania (especially the Maramures region). We were actually within a mile of Ukraine but didn't even think of entering because of the visa issue. We too drove from Budapest, but we did it on our own. A question for you. How did you obtain your visa to Ukraine? I have heard that it is difficult.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 11:28 AM
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The visa requirement is certainly problematic since it discourages tourism. Obtaining a visa wasn't that hard but did require time; we sent our passports to the consulate offices in New York City before going on the trip. (I didn't actually do it myself; someone from my husband's office did it for me.) At the border we had to fill out very confusing immigration/customs forms which are quite different from anything I have seen elsewhere. Most other countries' forms are more or less standardized but these ones had seemingly random numbers of square blocks to fill in. I think the form must have been devised by some bureaucrat in Soviet times. There was a huge line-up of truck waiting to go into Ukraine that stretched for a couple of miles. I suppose that there is very little manufacturing in Ukraine (or at least in that part of Ukraine) so everything is imported. There was almost no back-up going the other way.

Ironically enough, the woman who checked us in to Ukraine appeared to be very welcoming and thrilled to see us. She didn't speak any English but from her genuine smile, she seemed very happy to be meeting and processing real, live American tourists. I don't think they get all that many at that border crossing. By coincidence we had the same woman going out of the country too and she was the same way. I'm sure the fact that we were spending money in her country didn't hurt.

Given all the events going on the in the world, I had some concerns about anti-Americanism that you read about so much in the news. It's not as though I wear an American flag on my shirt but people can always tell my nationality before I even open my mouth. (And no, I don't wear sneakers since that is such a dead give-away.) But I have to say that people couldn't have been nicer everywhere including in Paris, where we spent two days on the way home. I'm sure the story would be different if we had gone to a Muslim country but it was reassuring to know that the whole world doesn't hate Americans.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 11:57 AM
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Hi Irene,
I just finished reading an article about the Ukranian Jews who spent nearly a year hiding in the cave Priests Grotto in Korolowka, Western Ukraine during 1943.

It is an amazing story. Were you aware of it?

I also wanted to mention that I have visted Oman, UAE, Algeria and Egypt in the past 2 years and found no problems with being American. The people were very warm and welcoming. So dont always believe the propaganda you hear or read.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 01:01 PM
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Queenie, where was the article? I'd love to read it. It really is amazing what so many people went through in the war. We are incredibly lucky to live where we do and when we do, a total accident of birth. Coming on the eve of the D-Day celebration, I am also reminded to be very grateful to all the brave people of so many countries who resisted and defeated Hitler and his forces.

In general, my trip also made clear to me how relatively wealthy I am. I couldn't believe how very poor so many people in Ukraine are, especially the gypsies. And nearly everyone said things are better for them now than they were ten or fifteen years ago so I can only imagine what used to be like.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 05:32 PM
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Speaking of caves, we were lucky enough to tour the caves near Odesa. The city was built of limestone blocks tunneled from the earth, and has reportedly created the largest man-made caverns on earth. These caverns were used as bases for battling the Nazis in WWII, but they are cold and damp and took there toll on some of those who stayed for long periods.

Getting a Visa is not too difficult, it presently costs $100/person and takes about a week. You must fill out their form, include a passport-type photo, your passport, a money-order for the proper amount (no checks), and a prepaid return US Postal Express envelope (presently ~$14).

Place all this into a US Postal Express envelope, and mail to the proper consular district (DC, NY, Chicago, or SF) depending upon in which state you reside.

The DC Embassy has two main websites that come and go because they have been messing with them lately, try one or the other for more info:

http://www.ukremb.com/
http://ukraineinfo.us/consular/consular.html
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Old Jun 3rd, 2004, 05:47 PM
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This is for Irene or anyone else with experience in the area: What a super trip report. Hats off to you. I'd apprecitate a rundown of the moremundane things re traveling in the region. What did your guide cost? How did you locate him? How long was he with you? Did you pick up his room and board? Was the food and water adequate? Did you wander by yourselves without the guide? Were the people optimistic to the point that the difference between their lives and yours didn't make you uncomfortable. [I hope you know what I mean]. Did you have pre arranged hotels or wing it? Did you encounter other travelers? Is a car an absolute? What was life like on the streets of the cities in mid afternoon? Dumb questions probably but it's experience that prompts them. Again, many thanks!
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Old Jun 4th, 2004, 02:55 AM
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Irene,
The article is in the June/July issue of National Geographic Adventure magazine.

It is amazing as this was originally a caving and spelunking story. However when the inhabited grotto was discovered, this became a human endurance story.

You are so right about how rich we all are! No one on this board is wondering whether they will eat a meal today.

The people in that cave endured a year in darkness, in the damp and cold. They got water by licking it off the cave walls. When they finally came out, the younger children did not know what the sun was, and did not even know the faces of their families.

And never being able to relax. What grit that took. It is very compelling to see what a human does to endure, and how some outsiders helped yet some harmed their efforts.

The story is impressive and one of thousands (hundreds of thousands), I am sure.
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Old Jun 4th, 2004, 06:32 AM
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Queenie, thanks for the information. I will definitely read the article.

Weber, we found our guide on the itnernet. (Isn't the internet a great travel tool? I can barely remember what it used to be like to do research pre world wide web.) Our guide, Valeriy Anna Edita, cost us about $200 per day which was a real bargain as far as I am concerned. He picked us up in his van in Budapest early in the morning so we did have to pay for his hotel room the night before but he only spent $25! (I don't know where he stayed but it sure must not have been the Marriott where we stayed.) When we were in Ukraine, he went home at night to his own home which wasn't that far from where we were staying. I think his wife also operates a guesthouse but we had our itinerary all planned out (although we did change it to accomodate what we learned)and that would have taken us in the wrong direction. We had our hotel reservations in advance. We were traveling with my 80 year old mother-in-law and wanted to be sure that accomodations met her needs.

In terms of whether we felt uncomfortable, the clear answer is no. People actually were pretty well dressed. It's funny how sloppy Americans look in comparison to Europeans. No one came up to us asking for anything. We did go to a "market" which is out in a field where there are stalls selling everything from food to clothing to toys to plumbing fixtures. The products looked pretty similar to what we see (although it was European brands) but I think it is hard for people to scrape up the money to buy things. Unlike in Soviet times, when nothing was available, now everything is available but it's a question of having the money to buy with. Food was very cheap but good (very slavic). Like the rest of Eurpoe, all the water we were served was bottled.

We didn't feel unsafe although we were generally with our guide except at night. We did wander through the market alone but he urged us to leave our valuables with him in the van because of pickpockets. The real isue on traveling alone is the language barrier. In the remote areas, not very many people speak English. My husband's Russian skills were very useful. Of course, the teenagers all seem to know some English because that is what they are now being taught in school (their parents learned Russian).

You really do need to have a car to travel in this part of the world. It is very rural with nothing but farms in between the towns. Even in Hungary, which is very well developed in comparison to Ukraine, once you got 12 or 15 miles out of Budapest, it was largely farms as well. Car travel is made more complicated by the fact that road signage in rural Ukraine was pretty much non-existent and there really aren't road maps readily available of some of the more remote villages. Our guide continually stopped and asked people for directions.

Tte towns we went to had central walking areas where there are no cars allowed and people just walk around. It was busy at all times except at night. There were a few other tourists but they were Russian or Ukrainian (I couldn't tell which). Apparently there is a steady trickle of American tourists who go there doing exactly what we did (looking for information about families left behind). I guess in reality, there aren't a lot of famous "sights" so people have to have a reason to go there, unless they just want to witness a way of life. In terms of sights, there is a lot of wine making in the region which I would have like to see but we just didn't have the time. We did visit a family and they (along with everyone else it seems) had grape vines in their yard and they make their own wine, which we tried. (It was really quite good.) They also had an extensive vegetable garden and seem to grow much of what they eat even though they live in town. I think it's just the way it is for most people.

Weber, I hope some of these mundane details were what you were looking for.
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Old Jul 12th, 2004, 11:11 AM
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Irene1, Thanks for the report. We hope to go to the Ukraine for the same reason. My husband's family is from Berdichev - did you go there? I suspect not since it is near Kiev. Did you have any concerns about personal safety when you were traveling? We would certainly hire a guide/driver, but would most likely go from Kiev. I assume your guide wouldn't be available if we started there, which is too bad. Was May a good time of year to be there?
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Old Jul 12th, 2005, 05:58 PM
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Hello Irene,
I just read the account of your trip to western Ukraine. It was very interesting and enlightening.

My husband and I will be leaving New York for the same area and for the same reason in a couple of days. My father, who just passed away, was born in the town of Dolha (Dolhoje), near Mukacheva. We hope to find the Jewish cemetary there; is this the one you visited?

We have rented a car in Prague and are planning to drive through Budapest to Mukachevo. After reading your account, I wonder if what we are doing is wise. The Star Hotel in Mukachevo has arranged for a guide to take us to Dolha for a day. We will spend 2 nights in Ukraine.

Is there any other advice you can offer us?

Hope to hear from you soon.
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Old Jul 16th, 2005, 10:56 AM
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Hello Irene!

Just a few comments from Budapest.
The village Dolha is about 35 miles from Mukatchevo. It is much closer to Irshava. From Chop, the border town, it is 60 miles. My grandfather was in the army in this village between WWI and WWII.
Be ready for some really rough roads. From Chop to Mukatchevo it’s perfect but from there may be hundreds of potholes. Hopefully they were fixed to some extent after the winter.
I STRONGLY RECOMMEND you to check with your rent a car company whether you are allowed to take the car to Ukraine or not. 99% of them won’t allow this.
In that case you can leave your car in front of the little restaurant in Zahony, the Hungarian border town, just 100 yards from the border check point.
You can cross the border then in an arranged private “taxi”. There are always some of them available around the border. They can take you to any destination in Transkarpathia (Sorry Irene1 but Southern Ukraine is a little bit far from there) for a very reasonable amount.
Also if you can take the car through the border, then try to cross it very early in the morning before 9:00 am or on Sunday. Much less Ukrainian gasoline and diesel “exporters” and also Hungarian cars going to fill up with 2 times cheaper gas and shoppers as well. Most of the things are half price or less over there.
You can buy maps for those areas in Hungary and also in Ukraine as well. I have bought all my maps over there. In any bookstore you can buy even detailed topographic maps of almost any area in Ukraine. I am a private guide myself and was very much surprised of how a person who is guiding people around not having a map on him. However it is very typical of the mentality of people over there, to save an extra buck even on the absolute must have things.
Also to say there are no famous “sights” over there?????!!!!! It’s absolutely not true. There are literally hundreds of places worth visiting. For instance the castles in Ungvar (Uzhgorod), Mukatchevo and them even have a dead-sea type salt lake(s) over there and many other sights.
Take American cash with you. Credit cards, checks etc. are not very much welcomed, to say the least. 1 $US equals to 4.90-5.00 Ukrainian Grivnas.
Fell free to ask any other questions.

Regards,
Bela Lukacs
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Old Aug 28th, 2005, 04:01 PM
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Hello Bela and All: I am leaving for the Ukraine 9/6/05 for 8 days. A business trip, I will only have ONE day free in ODESSA and one day free in Kiev. What should I do with these one day breaks? I would prefer to get out to the country side and see how things are there rather than so much time in the cities. Ideas? Is car rental practical? Thanks. (btw: I am male, in 50's,American, and not very fit!).
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Old Sep 12th, 2005, 06:10 PM
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Hi Irene
We will be visiting Hungary and Ukraine later this month and would like to contact your guide. We have a few questions. How much did he charge per person for the trip from Budapest to Ukraine? I saw his website about a week ago and saw his price listings for specific tours but do not know what to expect to pay for a full day's tour such as you seem to have had.
Thanks for sharing information
Elaine
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Old Sep 13th, 2005, 01:20 PM
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Hi Irene1
Thank you for a wonderful report on the Ukraine. It is a country that is on my list to visit. My Grandparents came from there. My father told me that the town they're from was destroyed by the Nazis, though I suspect it may still exist. I'm glad that your trip met your expectations.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 09:56 AM
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Thanks to Irene's posting, we contacted her tour guide,Valeriy Yevshenko ([email protected] and website is www.camellia-tour.com.) He provided us with the most marvelous experience in southern Ukraine that one could hope to have.
Valeriy was very prompt - picking us up in Budapest and taking us to Ukraine. He made us feel comfortable and welcome in the places from which my husband's family came but where we did not know the language or the land.
We had some special requests because my husband was searching for his "roots". Although Valeriy is not Jewish, he had contacts with a Jewish agency out of Uzhorod with a branch in Muncacheve. The organization is is Hesed Shpira;web site www.hesed-shpira.com. Together, they provided guided tours through the sites of Jewish interest in these towns. Valeriy stayed with us throughout all the questioning and research, providing much needed translation because they did not speak English and we did not speak Russian or Ukranian. He took us through the towns of my husband's family, questioned local people, and provided translations.
We would not have been able to learn or understand anything without his help.
In addition, he helped us to find restaurants, gifts for our children - anything we wished. This man is truly a gem and a gentleman.
If you are traveling in the region, Valeriy will make your trip fun, stress-free, and memorable.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 11:18 AM
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A real delight to see a post here on something off the usual beaten track.

You might like to check out 'hidden europe' magazine on www.hiddeneurope.co.uk. These past months we've had a lot of material on this part of Europe that you so carefully describe, including a feature called 'So Where is Mukachevo'?. In our current issue, we have a long account of Rosh Hashanah (ie. Jewish New Year) in Ukraine.

Hope this is of interest.
Nicky Gardner
Editor - Hidden Europe Magazine
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