Traveling to Germany to drive on the autobahn and nurburgring. Tips?
Jul 29th, 2011, 02:19 PM
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Traveling to Germany to drive on the autobahn and nurburgring. Tips?
Two American "car guys" in their 30's checking off an item on the bucket list.
Any suggestions on where to stay (modest accommodations)?
Where to rent a fast car?
Any suggestions on where to stay (modest accommodations)?
Where to rent a fast car?
Jul 29th, 2011, 04:06 PM
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Have fun! When you're on the Autobahn, stay on the right except to pass. Seriously. Don't think you can buzz along doing 85 mph in the left lane because the German guys in Mercedes or BMW (the most aggressive guys on the planet) will want to go 110. If you're in the left lane and you see someone behind you flashing their lights, you're in the way.
Excellent roads, of course, though there's been a lot of construction the last two times I've been in Germany. Bad traffic jams around some big cities at about 5:00 p.m. The word "Stau" means traffic congestion. You may see it on overhead traffic signboards.
I'd get a Germany guidebook if I were you, and I suggest you research accommodations on the internet. I'm a bit hazy about the location of Nurburgring, though I know it's sort of southwest of Cologne (Köln to the Germans) so I can't suggest accommodations. But once again, research on the internet.
My guess is that any car rental place can rent you a fast car. It will be cheaper to rent from the U.S. Try Europcar or Auto Europe, but you can also rent Hertz, Avis, and Budget and probably from others as well. Bring your Stateside driver's licence.
Excellent roads, of course, though there's been a lot of construction the last two times I've been in Germany. Bad traffic jams around some big cities at about 5:00 p.m. The word "Stau" means traffic congestion. You may see it on overhead traffic signboards.
I'd get a Germany guidebook if I were you, and I suggest you research accommodations on the internet. I'm a bit hazy about the location of Nurburgring, though I know it's sort of southwest of Cologne (Köln to the Germans) so I can't suggest accommodations. But once again, research on the internet.
My guess is that any car rental place can rent you a fast car. It will be cheaper to rent from the U.S. Try Europcar or Auto Europe, but you can also rent Hertz, Avis, and Budget and probably from others as well. Bring your Stateside driver's licence.
Jul 29th, 2011, 04:44 PM
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For a special car google exotic car rentals Germany. Otherwise the best you will be able to get is an Audi or similar. Agree that you need to be serious about driving. The standard of driving in Germany - and most of Europe - is much better than in the US.
The left lane is for passing only - and that means pulling out, quickly passing and then pulling back to the right lane immediately. 85 mph is for cruising the right lane. To pass you should be doing 100 - and get right out of the way. Since the larger/more powerful cars will be doing 120 to 130+ - and then quickly pulling over for the sports cars to pass them. (I had a Ferrari pass me once that must have been doing well over 160 - mph not kph).
But - be aware that some ares near major cities do have speed limits - and breaking them can be VERY expensive - hundreds of dollars.
The left lane is for passing only - and that means pulling out, quickly passing and then pulling back to the right lane immediately. 85 mph is for cruising the right lane. To pass you should be doing 100 - and get right out of the way. Since the larger/more powerful cars will be doing 120 to 130+ - and then quickly pulling over for the sports cars to pass them. (I had a Ferrari pass me once that must have been doing well over 160 - mph not kph).
But - be aware that some ares near major cities do have speed limits - and breaking them can be VERY expensive - hundreds of dollars.
Jul 29th, 2011, 05:11 PM
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Flashing of headlights to compel cars in front to make way is considered aggressive driving, and if seen by police will result in a fine, so beware.
Alternative is using your left direction indicators.
Only go fast where you are legally allowed. Many stretches of Autobahn have speed limit, which is quite strictly enforced with cameras and radars. Only go fast once you pass a round white sign with black diagonal line (meaning all restrictions end). Use your mirrors frequently before pulling out and drive with extreme caution. While German drivers are used to driving very fast and safely, and other drivers cope well with fast-moving traffic, you lack experience and may end up doing something unexpected, such as sudden braking, which confuses other drivers and can be dangerous.
I suggest for the first hour or so drive at moderate speed (no more than say 80 mph) until you get used to the traffic flow and then go faster when you gain in confidence.
You will also notice faster cars travelling in convoy at over 100 mph. It's best to leave them well alone.
Watch out for slower vehicles pulling out, esp in two-lane sections and near junctions. Always indicate your intention well in advance.
You don't need a particularly fast car like Porsche or Ferrari - most rental firms have 2-litre Mercedes Benz, Audi and BMW cars which are pretty fast enough (top speed 140 mph+) and very safe.
http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/ has all the details about driving on the tracks, access and local accommodation.
Alternative is using your left direction indicators.
Only go fast where you are legally allowed. Many stretches of Autobahn have speed limit, which is quite strictly enforced with cameras and radars. Only go fast once you pass a round white sign with black diagonal line (meaning all restrictions end). Use your mirrors frequently before pulling out and drive with extreme caution. While German drivers are used to driving very fast and safely, and other drivers cope well with fast-moving traffic, you lack experience and may end up doing something unexpected, such as sudden braking, which confuses other drivers and can be dangerous.
I suggest for the first hour or so drive at moderate speed (no more than say 80 mph) until you get used to the traffic flow and then go faster when you gain in confidence.
You will also notice faster cars travelling in convoy at over 100 mph. It's best to leave them well alone.
Watch out for slower vehicles pulling out, esp in two-lane sections and near junctions. Always indicate your intention well in advance.
You don't need a particularly fast car like Porsche or Ferrari - most rental firms have 2-litre Mercedes Benz, Audi and BMW cars which are pretty fast enough (top speed 140 mph+) and very safe.
http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/ has all the details about driving on the tracks, access and local accommodation.
Jul 29th, 2011, 09:29 PM
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Heck, rent a Porsche and go 200 kph (125 mph) on the Autobahn. It is not easy to drive at that speed but I did it at your age. Stay focused or die. See http://tinyurl.com/3bc2ax for driving and parking tips.
For good reasonable places to stay drive through any Dorf and look for a Gasthaus. The food is also good and reasonable. Same goes for the friendly service.
I don't know where you can rent a Porsche. I drove my own.
For good reasonable places to stay drive through any Dorf and look for a Gasthaus. The food is also good and reasonable. Same goes for the friendly service.
I don't know where you can rent a Porsche. I drove my own.
Jul 29th, 2011, 11:14 PM
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Rent a decent minivan. They have lots of HP and nice max speed as well. A decent car has to be havy, weighing above 2ooo kilos and just follow the Porsche. Most cars go 130kmh and passing at that speed is common. If you're to slow in the middle or left lane, you're blocking ALL trafic on the right lane. Passing on the right is verboten! This is respected by all drivers. You may pass on the right only when all lanes are full and the speed is below 80 an the differential in speed between the lanes is less then 20kmh.
If you go to slow on the center an left lanes, we can legally kill you, at least with words, horns and flashing headlamps. STAY IN THE RIGHT LANE.
If you go to slow on the center an left lanes, we can legally kill you, at least with words, horns and flashing headlamps. STAY IN THE RIGHT LANE.
Jul 29th, 2011, 11:55 PM
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To emphasize what others have said and which I agree with:
First - KNOW the signs and rules of the country you're driving in
Second - Keep to the right at all times unless passing, and double check your mirror a second time before pulling out and accelerating...if on a hill or a curve, where vision is limited, those faster cars in the left lane take you by surprise. Beware.
Third - the Germans are expert drivers for a reason; they've had lots of training and experience besides having great cars. It's hard to get that same level in the US, so give yourself some "break-in" time before you "put her to the test".
Oh, sorry, enough mothering...for hotels I check out www.booking.com or www.venere.com
If you can't find anything there you could consult with the local tourist office on-line.
First - KNOW the signs and rules of the country you're driving in
Second - Keep to the right at all times unless passing, and double check your mirror a second time before pulling out and accelerating...if on a hill or a curve, where vision is limited, those faster cars in the left lane take you by surprise. Beware.
Third - the Germans are expert drivers for a reason; they've had lots of training and experience besides having great cars. It's hard to get that same level in the US, so give yourself some "break-in" time before you "put her to the test".
Oh, sorry, enough mothering...for hotels I check out www.booking.com or www.venere.com
If you can't find anything there you could consult with the local tourist office on-line.
Jul 30th, 2011, 01:25 AM
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In all fairness, few stretches of the German autobahns are like race tracks. Most major east-west motorways are packed with miles of trucks shipping anything back and forth between Lisbon and Kiev. Many people drive quite moderately (around 120kph) these days due to the steep gas prices.
It's a bit of a myth that a German car plate designates expert drivers. You will meet a lot of idiots, pulling into center or left lane to pass trucks w/o using their rear mirrors to check for oncoming faster traffic.
A lot of the autobahn network has permanent speed limits, some more flexible limits shown by overhead displays.
Speed limits and tailgating is checked by radar/cameras, and you will never have a patrol car chasing after you when you went over the limit (only when combined with reckless driving). The tickets will come by mail, and the rental car companies will charge a processing fee on top of that.
Taking a rental car to Nürburgring will probably void insurance. You should check the fine print.
It's a bit of a myth that a German car plate designates expert drivers. You will meet a lot of idiots, pulling into center or left lane to pass trucks w/o using their rear mirrors to check for oncoming faster traffic.
A lot of the autobahn network has permanent speed limits, some more flexible limits shown by overhead displays.
Speed limits and tailgating is checked by radar/cameras, and you will never have a patrol car chasing after you when you went over the limit (only when combined with reckless driving). The tickets will come by mail, and the rental car companies will charge a processing fee on top of that.
Taking a rental car to Nürburgring will probably void insurance. You should check the fine print.
Jul 30th, 2011, 05:38 PM
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Sorry Porsches are NOT doing 125 - I was doing more than that in an Audi - which easily goes faster. (My old Acura coupe would do 140.)
Agree to familiarize yourself with the driving signs and regulations - as well as the rules of the road - before driving faster than you are ued to.
Be very careful with the smaller Mercedes - many seem to have engines run like hamsters. We rented one that had the pick up of a civic with the smaler engine. Be sure you get a car with a powerful engine not just a luxury name.
Agree to familiarize yourself with the driving signs and regulations - as well as the rules of the road - before driving faster than you are ued to.
Be very careful with the smaller Mercedes - many seem to have engines run like hamsters. We rented one that had the pick up of a civic with the smaler engine. Be sure you get a car with a powerful engine not just a luxury name.
Jul 31st, 2011, 01:22 AM
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"No one could have survived any accident that I saw on the autobahn."
I think the advantages in car safety are quite astonishing.
There are of course deadly accidents. But if you see some wrecks you would bet nobody could have survived while actually the driver wasn't hospilatized for more than a day. The cars are designed to disintegrate and thus absorb the energy.
40 years it was the other way round - the car looked quite okay but the driver was dead.
I think the advantages in car safety are quite astonishing.
There are of course deadly accidents. But if you see some wrecks you would bet nobody could have survived while actually the driver wasn't hospilatized for more than a day. The cars are designed to disintegrate and thus absorb the energy.
40 years it was the other way round - the car looked quite okay but the driver was dead.
Jul 31st, 2011, 06:08 AM
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Hi k,
>the two guys who are going are very experienced behind the wheel at a variety of speeds, <
In which case, I suggest a Porsche from http://www.gemut.com/home.html
Perhaps you can help on this.
I was driving on the Schwarzwalder Hochstrasse about 3rd in a long line behind a large truck doing about 50 kph. The first-in-line put on his blinker to pull out, but the second-in-line seemed to be in a hurry and pulled out and tried to pass him.
At that moment, a Porsche came roaring up from somewhere near the back of the line.
The driver of the Porsche tried to use the far left shoulder to go around the two cars, but missed. There was a rock retaining wall that kept him from going off the road, but the car was messed up.
Question: What would you have done if you were in the Porsche?
>the two guys who are going are very experienced behind the wheel at a variety of speeds, <
In which case, I suggest a Porsche from http://www.gemut.com/home.html
Perhaps you can help on this.
I was driving on the Schwarzwalder Hochstrasse about 3rd in a long line behind a large truck doing about 50 kph. The first-in-line put on his blinker to pull out, but the second-in-line seemed to be in a hurry and pulled out and tried to pass him.
At that moment, a Porsche came roaring up from somewhere near the back of the line.
The driver of the Porsche tried to use the far left shoulder to go around the two cars, but missed. There was a rock retaining wall that kept him from going off the road, but the car was messed up.
Question: What would you have done if you were in the Porsche?
Jul 31st, 2011, 07:05 AM
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The majority of the German Autobahns has speed limit now, unfortunately. Personally I would not rent a Porsche-type car. I'd rather drive a sturdy Audi A6 Quattro with a decent 4.2 liter engine and enough horsepower (the FSI Quattro has 349 PK).
Check out http://europeluxurycarhire.com to see if they have something for you.
Check out http://europeluxurycarhire.com to see if they have something for you.
Jul 31st, 2011, 10:42 AM
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spaarne -
I think you misunderstood me. Most of the Porsches I saw were going faster than that - not slower. Not sure what model car you have - but as I mentioned my old $20,000 Acura coupe would do 140.
The Porsches I'm familiar with do more like 170 or 180. Still street car speed - but faster than a sportly little coupe.
I think you misunderstood me. Most of the Porsches I saw were going faster than that - not slower. Not sure what model car you have - but as I mentioned my old $20,000 Acura coupe would do 140.
The Porsches I'm familiar with do more like 170 or 180. Still street car speed - but faster than a sportly little coupe.
Jul 31st, 2011, 01:12 PM
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It does not appear that any of the previous responders have actually driven the Nordschleife at the Nuerburgring, so I will give my two cents, having driven there 5 times.
I am fairly certain that your insurance would be voided were you to take a normal rental car on the Nuerburgring. (This is not a risk to be taken lightly. I don't think I have taken a single lap of the Nuerburgring without seeing at least one accident, and not only are you liable for the damage to your car, you are also responsible for paying for your emergency services and any damage you cause to the track itself.) I also strongly discourage anyone from driving on the Nuerburgring who does not have previous track experience. It is one of the most famous road courses in the world for a reason: it is beautiful, challenging, long (and thus incredibly strenuous), and unforgiving, with many blind crests, off-camber turns, and high-speed straightaways. You mention that your friends have experience driving fast, but do they actually have track experience? There is an enormous difference between driving for pleasure on a curvy American road and driving under race-type conditions on a treacherous road course while sharing the road with other cars, some of which are bound to be MUCH faster than you. The rules of the road are completely different on a racecourse.
If you do intend to go to the Nuerburgring, and your friends absolutely want to drive themselves (i.e. they do not want to simply enjoy the track from the passenger seat of an M5 Ring Taxi or ZakSpeed Viper), may I strongly suggest renting a car specifically for the occasion from an agency such as:
http://rentracecar.de
Beyond that, I would also recommend taking one of their driving courses, as you would then have an instructor in the car with you to serve as your guide. On our first few trips to the Ring we went with a good friend who had been riding and racing motorcycles for 30+ years and knew the track like the back of his hand. We actually prepared track notes from our laps with him which we then used when we went out on our own. An instructor can warn you about upcoming turns and make suggestions about gearing, track position, and apexes that a newbie would otherwise have to figure out on his or her own - sometimes to their great detriment.
Above all, be cautious, especially in your first few laps. It is extremely easy to fall into the "Ring Fever" and want to go out and tear up the track on your first lap. I've seen plenty of guys go in with their ego on fire and end up on the side of the track within the first few corners.
Don't get me wrong, the Nuerburgring is awesome. If you go into it well-prepared and put your ego on the back shelf for the day, you will have an incredible time.
It doesn't sound like you intend to drive yourself, so by all means please share my post with your fellow travelers.
I am fairly certain that your insurance would be voided were you to take a normal rental car on the Nuerburgring. (This is not a risk to be taken lightly. I don't think I have taken a single lap of the Nuerburgring without seeing at least one accident, and not only are you liable for the damage to your car, you are also responsible for paying for your emergency services and any damage you cause to the track itself.) I also strongly discourage anyone from driving on the Nuerburgring who does not have previous track experience. It is one of the most famous road courses in the world for a reason: it is beautiful, challenging, long (and thus incredibly strenuous), and unforgiving, with many blind crests, off-camber turns, and high-speed straightaways. You mention that your friends have experience driving fast, but do they actually have track experience? There is an enormous difference between driving for pleasure on a curvy American road and driving under race-type conditions on a treacherous road course while sharing the road with other cars, some of which are bound to be MUCH faster than you. The rules of the road are completely different on a racecourse.
If you do intend to go to the Nuerburgring, and your friends absolutely want to drive themselves (i.e. they do not want to simply enjoy the track from the passenger seat of an M5 Ring Taxi or ZakSpeed Viper), may I strongly suggest renting a car specifically for the occasion from an agency such as:
http://rentracecar.de
Beyond that, I would also recommend taking one of their driving courses, as you would then have an instructor in the car with you to serve as your guide. On our first few trips to the Ring we went with a good friend who had been riding and racing motorcycles for 30+ years and knew the track like the back of his hand. We actually prepared track notes from our laps with him which we then used when we went out on our own. An instructor can warn you about upcoming turns and make suggestions about gearing, track position, and apexes that a newbie would otherwise have to figure out on his or her own - sometimes to their great detriment.
Above all, be cautious, especially in your first few laps. It is extremely easy to fall into the "Ring Fever" and want to go out and tear up the track on your first lap. I've seen plenty of guys go in with their ego on fire and end up on the side of the track within the first few corners.
Don't get me wrong, the Nuerburgring is awesome. If you go into it well-prepared and put your ego on the back shelf for the day, you will have an incredible time.
It doesn't sound like you intend to drive yourself, so by all means please share my post with your fellow travelers.
